Must one obey Jesus to be saved?

But instead of clearing up the issue you muddy the waters by implying that God is responsible for sin because He does not save everyone.

Have you received any comments, agreements, disagreements to this?

I recall seeing you attribute it to another combatant, sorry, poster.

Or upon the One who commands men to believe.

We are to be looking unto Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith, and not unto Jesus who is the author of of our faith and ourselves as the finishers of our faith.

I think the issue that some are having is they think obedience is looking to self, trusting self, pointing to self, pointing to their righteousness and goodness etc etc when it’s not.

Obedience is desiring God’s will over your own. Obedience to Jesus isn’t showing how good we are, it’s showing how good He is (Jhn 10:11, 14, 27-28). Following Jesus doesn’t point back to our own righteousness, it points to His (Rom. 5:17, 21). Following Jesus isn’t looking to self for salvation, it’s looking to Him, the author and finisher of faith (Heb. 12:2). Following Jesus isn’t making ourselves the captain of our salvation, it’s Jesus who is the captain (Heb. 2:10).

And we're looking at God who sent and teaches about His Son and commands belief in His Son. He's always the initiator. So, a focus on him as the initiator and man as the responder is not a focus on man.

God is at work in the world today. The way to authenticate a work of God is that it always magnifies Christ, and not men. You magnify the endeavor of man rather than the work of God in men.

Do you believe you have ever obeyed the command of God to be holy as He is holy? Have you ever loved another as Christ loves us? If so, how were you able to do so?

This insight occurred while I was discussing with someone, but I forgot whom.

And I have received a few agreements, but no disagreement that I can recall, although it would not surprise me for someone I have offended to disagree.

That's what obeying God does - it magnifies God as being the initiator and authority to whom we bow in faith-obedience just as Jesus very heavily emphasized that God was looking for in men.

And Jesus BTW always magnified God His Father who Sent Him.

There is no self-saving endeavor of men. It's God's Salvation Plan which He initiated by Grace. Then men are commanded to work to learn what God teaches about His Son Jesus His Christ and to believe into Him, so in faith-obedience. Then comes faith-obedience-good works together with God providing His capacity to his Children to do the good works God created them to do.

Your charge against me is a fallacy.

I wonder how many have read it closely. Obviously, I don't expect you to know beyond those who have expressed agreement.

Our gift of salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of sin while our lives continued to be directed at being doers of sin, so there must be an aspect of our gift of salvation from sin that we are getting to experience in the present by directing our lives towards walking in God’s way. So the issue of what we must do to be saved is not in regard to what we are required to have done first in order to then become saved as the result, but in regard to what we are intrinsically required to do to be experiencing God’s gift of salvation in the present, or in other words, what we are intrinsically required to do to be experiencing the gift of having an intimate relationship with God.

The Hebrew word "yada" refers to in intimate relationship/knowledge gained by experience, such as in Genesis 4:1, Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. The Bible begins and ends in the Garden with the Tree of Life and the goal of everything in between is to teach us the way back to it, or in other words, the goal of everything in the Bible is to teach us how to know (yada) God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life (John 17:3). God's way is the way to know (yada), love, glorify, believe in, and testify about Him and Jesus by being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, such as in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being a doer of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through the Mosaic Law, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which again is His gift of eternal life. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law and something that we inherit is a gift.

God’s way is also the way to believe in Him, such as by being a doer of good works in obedience to God’s law we are testifying about God’s goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God’s goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words we are believing in Him. Likewise, the way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by directing our lives towards being in His likeness through being a doer of justice in obedience to Him, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as he is holy, and so forth. The way to believe in the Son is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Father because the Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3). It is by this faith alone that we have salvation, justification, righteousness, and eternal life.

The way to love God is also by walking in His way, such as the way to live justice is by being a doer of justice, so everything that God has chosen to command was commanded in order to teach us how to love different aspects of His character, which is why the Bible repeatedly states that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments.

Sin is what is contrary to God's way, such with unrighteousness be sin, and sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law because it was given to teach us how to walk in God’s way, so the way that Jesus is giving us His gift of saving us from sin is by graciously teaching us to walk God’s way.

Let's find out. Answer my questions. Have you ever obeyed the command to be holy as God is holy? Have you ever loved another as Christ loves you? If so, how were you able to do so?

I was just basing my view on Titus 2:11-13, which doesn’t say that we are required to have first done those works and then we will be saved as the result or that we need to become saved first and then we will do those works as the result, but rather it describes our salvation and God being gracious to us by teaching us to do those works. I am speaking about the aspect of God’s gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by directing our lives towards being a doer of God’s law, which intrinsically requires us to be a doer of it in order to have that experience. Being saved from not being an obeyer Jesus intrinsically involves being an obeyer of him and someone who is not an obeyer of him is not being saved from not being an obeyer of him.

Yes, but although I vaguely knew that I did not intend to revert to salvation via works when I viewed works as somewhat separate from saving faith, I had never realized that from conversion to perseverance is one second during which faith does not change, and so this truth continues from the first second until the last (RM 1:17).

Good clarification... of course we are not saved by doing good... scripture tells us that... but to be a believer, and not be about the business of being Jesus' hands and feet here on earth will not serve you well on judgement day, according to scripture....

Agreed, though the point is that being the hands and feet of Jesus is part of the content of what his gift of salvation is, not the result of it.

OK. You're pretty bossy. Yes, as best I could and as best I can as time moves on and experiences arise. Ditto. Phil2:13 and others - such is the growth process working with God working in us in Christ in Spirit.

How about you?

Yes, and it grows in us as we walk, abide, endure, etc. in Christ in Spirit.

Easy question to answer.

Historically, take one tree branch and when you think an evil thought.

You then flog yourself until the sin has left you.

Did Paul not say that he bore the marks of Jesus on his back.

You folk have so much to learn.

Through your efforts or God's?

What I'm getting at is...how can a finite, sinful man be holy like an infinite and sinless being? How does that work?