Understanding God’s election

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John146

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brightfame52 said:
All types and classes of people are among Gods Elect
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Let’s stick with what it actually says and not add to or take away. The scripture actually states, kings and ALL that are in authority.

Why should we pray for kings and all that are in authority? That we may live peaceable lives.
 
Blain

Blain

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since it was originally written in greek I looked up the word all in greek
he Greek word for "all" is "πᾶς" (pas).

Explanation:
  • "πᾶς" (pas): directly translates to "all", "every", or "whole" in English.

  • Related word: "ὅλος" (holos) also means "all" or "whole" and can be used depending on the context.


  • Strong's Greek: 3956. πᾶς (pas) -- All, every, whole, entire - Bible Hub
    Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: - H3605 (כֹּל, kol): Often translated as "all" or "every," similar in meaning to "pas" in its ...

    Bible Hub


  • Pas Meaning - Greek Lexicon | New Testament (KJV) - Bible Study Tools
    Pas Definition individually. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything.




  • Strong's Greek: 3650. ὅλος (holos) -- Whole, all, entire, complete
    ὅλος (holos) -- Whole, all, entire, complete. ... Definition: Whole, all, entire, complete. Meaning: all, the whole, entire,

 
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brightfame52

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John146 said:
If the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world, they would never fall under condemnation. They would never be a object of God’s wrath.
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The condemnation they incurred actually landed on Christ, He was their surety. They incurred and it was imputed to Christs charge, thats why He came, to take care of that debt of condemnation for the elect, but that was a good observation
 
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brightfame52

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John146 said:
Let’s stick with what it actually says and not add to or take away. The scripture actually states, kings and ALL that are in authority.

Why should we pray for kings and all that are in authority? That we may live peaceable lives.
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I am sticking with what it says, just not every word you think needs to be in the context.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Cameron143 said:
Thanks for the reply. And I have no problem with your answer. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. We simply disagree about what is true of a natural fallen man and what the power of the gospel consists in.

My whole point on prayer is simply that people object to God inpinging Himself upon people and their choices, yet pray for that very thing. If you have ever prayed the Lord's prayer, you have prayed for God to bring to pass His will on earth and an outcome that people are openly opposed to. In essence, you are asking God to purposely do something contrary to a person's will.
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No I never ask God to do things against anyone’s will my friend. When I pray I am just speaking to God as my Father, I try to follow Jesus teachings regarding prayer and speak to him from the heart

i dont think I’ve ever asked him to do things against anyone’s will Though.

its interesting the arguments we make to support our ideas (both sides I mean )
Often we get away from the point.
 
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Cranberry

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HeIsHere said:
Change the character of God and then blame the people for their unwillingness to accept what is not even true.
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That's what some are trying to do.

I think it is a side effect that comes from reading Scripture in snippets as they try to counter the Exegesis posted by those of us who have read the Bible. Rather than snippets as many appear to do.

And that is why those persons can't take the full picture of Gods Sovereignty and have it comport with their snippet construct understanding.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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John146 said:
If the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world, they would never fall under condemnation. They would never be a object of God’s wrath.
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An interesting point. So where does it say the elect were under God's wrath? Ephesians 2:3 says...were by nature the children of wrath. It doesn't say...were children of wrath.
This gives rise to another question: what is exactly entailed in that nature?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Pilgrimshope said:
No I never ask God to do things against anyone’s will my friend. When I pray I am just speaking to God as my Father, I try to follow Jesus teachings regarding prayer and speak to him from the heart

i dont think I’ve ever asked him to do things against anyone’s will Though.

its interesting the arguments we make to support our ideas (both sides I mean )
Often we get away from the point.
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Did you ever pray the Lord's prayer?
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Cranberry said:
That's what some are trying to do.

I think it is a side effect that comes from reading Scripture in snippets as they try to counter the Exegesis posted by those of us who have read the Bible. Rather than snippets as many appear to do.

And that is why those persons can't take the full picture of Gods Sovereignty and have it comport with their snippet construct understanding.
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The starting point is always God is love.
 
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Cranberry

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
No, it's not Scripture. Nor is it justice. The Bible does not teach God made a people with their purpose is to end up in hell. That's ridiculous.

1. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


2. Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out.

3.From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”

4. ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

5. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

6. For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!

7. I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

8. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

9. I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

10. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation...

Just a handful of verses that prove that God did not create a people for destruction.
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You cannot erase what is written in the Bible. You choose to insist that what is written doesn't actually exist,when it actually does.

That is Cognative Dissonance.
It isn't Scripture. It isn't respect for God's word. And when someone excises parts of Scripture they will not accept that is Eisegesis.
 
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Kroogz

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HeIsHere said:
To them is some kind of high level intellectualism, lol
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I am with you. Calvinism appeals to the human intellect. That's why God's word pokes holes in just about every aspect of it.

We try to "sell" His Gospel to all.

They try to "sell" Calvinism/ Reformed theology to all.
 
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Cranberry

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Kroogz said:
I am with you. Calvinism appeals to the human intellect. That's why God's word pokes holes in just about every aspect of it.

We try to "sell" His Gospel to all.

They try to "sell" Calvinism/ Reformed theology to all.
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The tunnel vision here regarding Calvinism is astonishing. Going so far as to accuse those of us who state we are not Calvinists of being liars as detractors repeatedly insist on making the accusations.

That hatred obscures their capacity to see the Scriptures.

And the ideology they promote while denying Scripture they disapprove for thinking those passages do not exist is what makes for their Eisegesis. And their subsequent argument unrelated to God's word.
 
Blain

Blain

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brightfame52 said:
I am sticking with what it says, just not every word you think needs to be in the context.
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your not sticking with what it says your adding to it there is a difference you have yet to be able to debunk my point the best you offered was it is spiritual that is a poor counter to my point. even the greek word for all provves my point and if anyone would care to disprove my point I am open to admitting I am wrong but you need to do better than that
 
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