Matthew 24:40 Is the rapture secret?

My 2cents is that these verses are as the context indicates similar to the flood of Noah.
You dont wanna be one of the TAKEN, why? Because:

Luke 17:36-37
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

They are taken to judgment, not a good place to be, if you want to know more about the birds gathering together, here is one mention of it in Revelation 19:

"
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

Where is the judgement part?

Where the eagles gather? Reference that to Revelation 19, the evil kings are brought to the great supper for the birds to feast on their corpses, they go against Christ. Thats judgment

That isn't what it said though that is an interpretation it speaks of their flesh being eaten but the verse in mathew doesn't say anything about that or judgement

Romans 14:10 speaks of judgement before Christ no interpretation just clear and cut

Mat 24:37
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Compared to:

Luk 17:26
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

The ones who were taken in Noah's day were the wicked or the ones who were destroyed. Similarly, those who will be taken at Christ's return are the wicked. They are not the righteous. The righteous will be left. That whole "Left Behind" thing is totally backwards.

this one makes more sense to me but if the wicked are taken what are the saints left for?

The saints who will be raptured or caught up are only caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds in his descent from heaven. They are not caught up to heaven. With such being the actual case, they will immediately return to this earth with Jesus after receiving their glorified bodies in order to enter into the kingdom of God which is coming to this earth. That is how they will be left.

that doesn't really add up he comes down we go up only to then come back down to earth with Jesus who already came down so we can't be with him if he is already on earth.

do we descend back to earth with him or do we meet him on earth when we descend?

The sad thing, Blain, is that so many people have been conditioned (which is a nice way of saying brainwashed) into reading things into scripture that it does not say (eisegesis) while failing to take out of it what it actually says (exegesis). Just read this for what it actually says.

1Th 4:13
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul wrote this so that Christians would not be ignorant in regard to them which are asleep or in regard to the saints which had already died. In other words, he did not want the Christians to be in sorrow for them as if they had died without any future hope. He then went on to explain exactly what that future hope is. He said that when Jesus comes or descends, he will bring the dead in Christ with him. Pause here for a moment, and ask yourself where both Jesus and the dead in Christ are coming or descending from. We know, from other passages of scripture, that both Jesus and the dead in Christ are currently in heaven, so this is where they both are coming or descending from. According to Paul, the dead in Christ shall rise first, or the saints who are yet alive at that time will not prevent or precede them in relation to receiving their glorified bodies. In other words, the dead in Christ will receive their glorified bodies first as they come and descend from heaven with Jesus. After this, the Christians who are yet alive at that time will be caught up to meet both Jesus and the dead in Christ in the clouds, and in the air, as they are coming or making their descent from heaven. At that time, the saints who are yet alive will receive their glorified bodies. Hopefully, you can see this because this all is plainly stated in the text.

If you can see this, then here comes the important question.

Where does this text say anything about everyone suddenly making some sort of about face back to heaven?

If we practice exegesis, and not eisegesis, then we realize that the text says no such thing at all. Instead, people have been conditioned or brainwashed into reading it into the text.

To answer your question, when Jesus and the dead in Christ come or descend from heaven, the Christians who are yet alive at that time will be caught up to meet them in the air, and then everyone will descend to this earth in order to enter into the kingdom of God which Christ taught us to pray would come to this earth.

I don't mean for this to sound argumentative, or combative, or antagonistic, or anything like that, but I challenge you, or anybody else, to show me where Paul said anything in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 about anybody being caught up or raptured to heaven. It's not in there. People have been conditioned or brainwashed into reading it into the text. The only people being caught up in what we just read are the saints who will yet be alive at that time, and they will be caught up in the clouds, and in the air, and not to heaven.

@Blain

I need to logoff for a few hours, so if you have any other questions, then I will have to answer them later. Have a blessed day, and stay focused upon the blessed hope that we just read about.

Did you ever notice that they have asked Jesus two questions about two events ?

Hes telling them about the destruction and desolation of Jerusalem and the temple that’s going to happen in thier generation 70 ad because they ask him about it

But they also ask him about his return and the end of the world .

his answer contains both near future events for them then and distant future events fornthe end of the world you can really see it if you look at the contemporary accounts found in mark chapter 13 , and Luke chapter 21 with all three accounts you really get all the details of what he’s talking about the. It may even lead you to daniels prophecy about the “ abomination of desolation “because Jesus mentions it in his sermon there regarding Jerusalems destruction and temples desolation

Its simply comparing scripture with scripture. What do you suggest it means then? The disciples ask where are they taken to and Jesus replies where the body is thats where the eagles are gathered. How can you spin that statement to something positive?

well actually upon futher studying it does imply judgement of spiritual decay so that is my bad

Two armies are TAKEN to Armageddon. It is GOOD to be TAKEN there by Jesus but BAD to be taken there by satan and the two beasts (found in the 6th vial)


However, the parable/stories about the one TAKEn or LEFt is about who Jesus TAKES with him, and whom he leaves which also means to be rejected and left to die in the Greek definiotion of LEFT.

Luke 17:36-37
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

These are TAKEN to Armageddon by Christ to witness the slaughter there.


"
Don't forget the people Christ TAKES with him to Armageddon:

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And have you spent any time studying the Greek words and their definitions for the words TAKEN and LEFT? Did you know the part about the flood that "took" people and killed them isn't the same Greek word for TAKEN in the taken and left parables? This is why studying the original language is required to understand this. The TAKEN are the saved ones and the LEFT ones are the ones who die.

Here is a quick start to this whole thing:

taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

Luk 18:31 Then he took (paralambano) unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.


Same word and meaning here.


Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again (second coming reference), and receive you (paralambano) unto myself (rapture reference); that where I am, there ye may be also.



This is the rapture and guess what? The same exact word and meaning is here too. The one taken is a reference to the rapture.


The one left (this word means to divorce, leave to die and reject) are those left to suffer God's wrath and possibly die.



left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

That's the complete opposite as being "taken" and is very negative. Do you
want to be rejected at the return of Christ or do you want to be accepted?
Christ takes the first one from the field and the rest is "left" by him, and
are "kept no longer".






Who was TAKEN by the Ark?
Who was LEFT outside the Ark?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Who was TAKEN out of Sodom?
Who was LEFT in Sodom?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean to accept as a companion and does NOT mean to reject and leave to die?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean to reject and leave someone to die and does NOT mean to accept as a companion?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean you survive?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean you do not survive?

Well the whole teken thing no matter how I look at it makes sense and I cannot figure any other way to see it now but this would mean that there indeed is not a pretrib rapture and though it saddens me and hope for it is lost I just can't see it any other way now.
The problem is my hope is gone and I am sad but one has to be able to throw down what they thought they knew in order to learn and grow I suppose.......

Correct.

In many past posts I've given the biblical support for such.

I don't have time at the moment to go into the numerous reasons, but can supply a brief bullet-point list, if anyone should desire to look into those past posts showing the reasons why this is so.

Briefly (I hope? lol):

-- the disciples' question to Jesus in Matt24:3 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]," when the angels will "REAP") was BASED ON what Jesus had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"--which is FOLLOWED BY "the age [singular] to COME [aka the earthly MK age]" that He'd previously spoken of in Matt12:32);
Jesus' response is in 2 chpts (Mt24 - 25);


--Matt13's mention of the "WHEAT harvest" therefore speaks to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH time-slot; the "WHEAT harvest" is harvested by means of a "tribulum" [harvesting implement]; whereas the EARLIER harvest is harvested by means of "tossing UP INTO THE AIR, and BLOWING away the chaff";
Leviticus 23 has TWO mentions of "firstfruit" (corresponding with "more than one harvest" in scripture and in nature)--the LATTER of these two mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23 being associated with the "WHEAT harvest" (Lev23:17); and which wording in that verse (the SECOND mention of "firstfruit" in Lev23) corresponds with the mention of "firstfruit" in Rev14:4 re: the "144,000," and Lev23:17 says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" (whereas "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [that's us] is described COMPLETELY OPPOSITE to these!!--Check that out!);
Up to and INCLUDING the time that Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse, He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING re: "our Rapture" (He was not covering THAT Subject AT ALL in His Olivet Discourse, either);


--COMPARE Matthew 24:42-51 to its PARALLEL passage, Lk12:36-37,38,40-48, where that passage starts out with "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." (THEN "the meal [G347; Mt8:11 and parallel, speaking of the MK age]");


--Matt24:29-31 (His Second Coming to the earth time-slot) CORRESPONDS with Isaiah 27:9,12-13 ("GREAT" trumpet), and THEY (Israel--the believing remnant, that is) will be "gathered... ONE BY ONE" to one place upon the earth (to "Jerusalem"), and BY "angels" HE SHALL SEND to do so--a completely distinct MANNER of being "gathered" (not to mention "location"... "purpose"... etc)--IOW, it is the "ANGELS / REAPERS" who will "collect ye FIRST the TARES" (i.e. be the ones who TAKE them to their JUDGMENT! [the ones "TAKEN" at that time are "TAKEN" away IN JUDGMENT, just as in the days of Noah! COMPARE: Gen9:1/Dan2:35c--NOAH was LEFT to "fill the earth"--SAME at the SECOND COMING per Dan2:35c!]);


--the SEQUENCE ISSUES of the Olivet Discourse (particularly the wording in Lk21:12's "But BEFORE ALL these [BEFORE ALL these beginning of BPs that vv.8-11 had just DESCRIBED--same ones as in Matt24:4-8 & Mk13:5-8]) informs us that ONE "SEE-then-FLEE" takes place BEFORE the beginning of birth pangs, whereas the OTHER / DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" incident takes place AFTER those and means they cannot be the SAME occurrence (one is in 70ad; the other far-future in the Trib yrs preceding His Second Coming TO THE EARTH);


--"the beginning of birth pangs" ARE "the SEALS" of Rev6, and Rev6 takes place WITHIN the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" that Rev1:1 [/1:19c / 4:1] tells us are the "FUTURE" aspects of that Book (i.e. the seven year Trib / 2520 days);


--His Second Coming to the earth time-slot is when "EVERY EYE shall SEE Him" (Rev19:16/17:14... 1Tim6:15 "openly manifest"... Acts 1:11 "shall so come / AS ye have SEEN Him traveling into heaven"... 2Th2:8b "MANIFESTATION of the presence / parousia of Him,"...etc);
Matthew 24:40 [/Lk17:34,36] takes place at the time-slot surrounding His Second Coming TO THE EARTH--This is NOT speaking of "our Rapture" event... but of the Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 time-slot (when the angels will "REAP" and are told to "collect ye FIRST the TARES" [bind them in bundles] ...*to be* "burned"/ "TO burn them"--[This, BTW, is the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that of "our Rapture" occasion...]);


--many rapture movies from the 70s incorrectly used this Matthew 24 passage ("taken" and "left") to be referring to "our Rapture" event (rather than its proper CONTEXT: His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, NOT "our Rapture"), and so many movie-makers, writers, pastors still mistakenly view this as a "rapture" passage when it is NOT (that is NOT its CONTEXT); I'm going to GUESS that the Left Behind book series followed suit on that misconception (I don't know for sure because I've not read the series, though I do own it and many other books based on eschatology of every stripe. My memory is foggy on what passages those particular authors of the Left Behind series based their plot on... But fictional depictions are not what I BASE my studies on anyway, lol);


--WAY TOO many OTHER considerations (from Scripture itself) to list here... as I do have time constraints at present, as I mentioned...

This is just for starters, for the readers who want to CONSIDER the reasonings which I've placed in many past posts on this Subject.

I'm not clear on your view, so if I may ask a question...?

Are you saying:

--only "glorified" persons will ENTER the earthly MK age; OR

--BOTH "glorified" persons, and "unsaved" persons [as 'mortals',] will ENTER the MK age; OR

--some other explanation... ?




IOW, what do you believe it means where it says in Rev20:8c says, "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" (that entire context);

Are you thinking the same number of people who ENTER the MK age will be the same as the number of people here at the END of the MK age? And who is it that Satan aims to "deceive" (as his objective) at this point?

To boil it down, do you believe there will exist any "mortals" in the MK age? (People who will have the capacity to "reproduce / bear children"?) Who?











[see my previous post, Post #38, for my own brief explanation of this... Basically, ONLY "believers" will be granted ENTRANCE INTO the MK age... at the time-slot of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (Rev19), and they will be "mortals" capable of reproducing / bearing children (THis is NOT "our Rapture")]

I believe that both glorified saints (those who are part of the first resurrection) and unsaved people will enter Christ's Millennial Reign. In fact, the glorified saints will rule over the unsaved with Christ during his Millennial Reign. I recently spent a lot of time explaining this exact belief on another thread, and here is but one of those explanations.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...r-following-verses.217200/page-5#post-5408861
According to Daniel (and I spoke about this in the post that I just linked you to), this is what will happen when Christ returns to establish his Millennial Reign here on earth.

Dan 7:11
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

At Christ's second coming, the horn, or the little horn, or the beast, or the Antichrist will immediately be given to the burning flame, or he will immediately be cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

However, as Daniel properly prophesied, the rest of the beasts, or the rest of the kingdoms, will still remain for 1000 years. They will have their dominion taken away as they are ruled by Christ and his resurrected saints, but their lives will be prolonged for a season and time or for 1000 years.

As to whether or not they (the unsaved) will be able to reproduce or have more children during those 1000 years, I am not sure.