Matthew 24:40 Is the rapture secret?

[sawdust]

Impossible.
Your theory has half earths population removed as wicked, and presuming the other half as righteous.
Outrageously impossible.
There never has been a time of half the population saved and half lost, and there never will be.

That theory of "wicked taken" is way way off.

Jesus even explained the "half taken" in mat 25.
Half the virgins taken.
The exact same ratio.
Half the virgins left.

That ONLY FITS the church.
Nothing else.

Huh?? Your theory makes less sense. Are you saying He only takes half His body?

The context is the Second Coming.
Matt.24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Christ likens it to the days of Noah.
Matt.24:37
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Just as on the day Noah entered the Ark and the unbelievers were swept away by the flood, so shall the day that Christ returns and unbelievers will be taken away.
Matt.24:38-39
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Now, if you wish to enter the Kingdom of God when it is established on Earth and not be swept away, keep watch and be aware.
Matt.24:42
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming

In the same vein, Matt.25 continues with the subject of the Second Coming and who will enter and who will not. The foolish virgins are unbelievers who are kept out of the Kingdom while the wise are those who enter the Millennial rule of Christ on Earth. We know the foolish virgins are unbelievers because Christ says "He does not know them". (cmp.Lk.13:27; Matt.7:23)
Matt.25:11-13
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

As for your literal interpretation of exactly one half of Earth's population, one would also have to assume that every endeavour of people on the day would have to have an even number and at least two performing the event. The point being, it is not literal, it is an example of what will take place. There are those who will remain on Earth to enter Christ's Millennial rule and there are those who will be removed.

Matthew 24 and 25 is not dealing with the Resurrection of the Church but the Lord's return to Earth and the establishment of His rule.

 

[ewq1938]

^ @ewq1938 , doesn't matter

It matters because you have THE WRONG GREEK WORD. The two words have very different definitions.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It matters because you have THE WRONG GREEK WORD.

Are we talking about the same verses?
I'm talking about a Greek word in Matthew 24:39.

Do you agree or DISAGREE that the Greek word in Matthew 24:39 (for "took-away") is G142 ?
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/24/39/t_concif_953039
-- https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/24-39.htm ;

and that it can carry the meaning of (as I'd pointed out):
8. to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence

-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g142/kjv/tr/0-1/

[and]

"h. to take from among the living, either by a natural death, John 17:15 (ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου take away from contact with the world), or by violence, Matthew 24:39;

--[under the heading "Thayer's Greek Lexicon"] https://biblehub.com/greek/142.htm



So in the above, I am pointing out what happened to the "THEY [and 'THEM-ALL']" of THIS TEXT (i.e. the ones who were "taken-away" IN JUDGMENT *by means of* the FLOOD-JUDGMENT.) That wasn't Noah & crew, but the UNBELIEVERS / UNSAVED persons.

The two words have very different definitions.

I also pointed out how the word YOU are talking about carries BOTH a POSITIVE *and* a NEGATIVE [end-result] outcome / meaning DEPENDING ON CONTEXT (in the SAME WAY that this word *I* am talking about ^ does, DEPENDING ON CONTEXT):
in this case, "WHO" is DOING the "taken" thing [and by what authority and to what purpose/end, whether POSITIVE *or* NEGATIVE for those being "taken"])...

...for example, the following verses use the word you are talking about, but IT DOESN'T *mean* here "to take as COMPANION" [as in, "chummy" aims and outcomes] (like you want it to ALWAYS mean), instead it can mean, to take for the purpose OF JUDGMENT [for the one being "taken [/took]":

--"Mat 27:27 - Then the soldiers of the governor took G3880 Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers."

--"Jhn 19:16 - Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took G3880 Jesus, and led him away."

I'd pointed out in an earlier post, that in the case of Matt24:40-41 and Luk17:34,36, it will be the ANGELS / REAPERS (whom "HE SHALL SEND" to do so) will be the ones "taken" (as in, "taken [away IN JUDGMENT]" by the angels / reapers, who will be [have been] told to, "collect ye FIRST the TARES..." [that is, to NEGATIVE outcome for the ones being "taken," here in these texts, not for "chummy" purposes]).
Remember how I pointed out, the disciples' question to Jesus in Matt24:3 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]") was BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN TO THEM about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... when the angels will "REAP"... The angels/reapers are authorized to "collect YE first the TARES". (THEY will be the instruments serving this aim.)

So what I am saying is, that IT DOESN'T MATTER what Greek word is used (if it carries that same ultimate meaning [or result], it's legit), it DEPENDS ON CONTEXT ("who" is DOING the verb, and TO WHAT PURPOSE / END).


It'd be like (according to your argument / reasoning), if you and I have a conversation about the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," and you say to me, "hey, I'm very eager for our harpagēsometha [FOR/TO 'the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR']," and I reply back to you, "Not me! Nope. What *I'm eager for INSTEAD is 'our episynagōgēs UNTO HIM"... and then you say to me, "uh, buddy, that's referring to THE SAME THING"... and I reply with, "nope, they are completely DIFFERENT Greek words!!" (uh... This is TERRIBLE REASONING!)



[for the readers: bottom line - the CONTEXT of Matthew 24 [Lk17] is NOWHERE covering the Subject of "our Rapture / SNATCH [IN THE AIR]" but ALL ABOUT His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the commencement of the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, and who it is who will be granted entrance into it upon His "RETURN" (to the earth); EVERYTHING from 24:4 onward is what takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture" [and takes place in the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 speaks to, which IS the "7 year period" we call the Tribulation period--WE / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY will NOT be present on the earth for that time-period (and as reminder: 1Th4:17 is IN THE CONTEXT OF 1Th3:13! That *location* is EVEN HIGHER UP from that of the "meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR" location!) "Rapture [G726]" pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]"]; it does NOT pertain to all other "saints" of all OTHER time-periods: not to OT saints, not to TRIB saints, not to MK-age saints!)]





Whew, I'm outta breath! lol

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ need at least "10 Mins" EDIT time, lol

ugh

 

[ewq1938]

Are we talking about the same verses?
I'm talking about a Greek word in Matthew 24:39.

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away (airō); so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (paralambanō), and the other left.

It is a great error to confuse AIRO with PARALAMBO. Those the flood takes and kills would be those LEFT not the one TAKEN despite the English making it seem they are the same word. In the Greek they are not related which is why reading only the English translation is problematic and leads to serious errors.

The taken/PARALAMBO are those accepted by Christ when he comes, and those left/APHIEMI are those who were rejected by Christ and are the ones the flood "takes" away to death. They are left to suffer God's wrath not left as surviving.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away (airō); so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (paralambanō), and the other left.
It is a great error to confuse AIRO with PARALAMBO. Those the flood takes and kills would be those LEFT not the one TAKEN despite the English making it seem they are the same word. In the Greek they are not related which is why reading only the English translation is problematic and leads to serious errors.

The taken/PARALAMBO are those accepted by Christ when he comes, and those left/APHIEMI are those who were rejected by Christ and are the ones the flood "takes" away to death. They are left to suffer God's wrath not left as surviving.

You obviously did not read my post.

BOTH of those words carry BOTH "POSITIVE" and "NEGATIVE" meanings [/outcomes / ends / effects], DEPENDING ON CONTEXT.


You want to make "paralambano" carry ONLY the "POSITIVE" meaning (ONLY a "chummy" kind of sense). That's not accurate, as I carefully and painstakingly explained in my post.





Believe what you wish, ewq1938.

Any reader who carefully reads my post can judge between our posts, as to which is the more biblically accurate explanation.

 

[ewq1938]

You obviously did not read my post.

BOTH of those words carry BOTH "POSITIVE" and "NEGATIVE" meanings [/outcomes / ends / effects], DEPENDING ON CONTEXT.

Not really. Go ahead, cite a verse.

 

[MarcoftheTruth]

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Why are there so many different opinions about the rapture. Here is a warning directly from Jesus. it sounds scary but in reality it is a comforting warning:

[Luk 21:8-19, 25-27 KJV] 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. 9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end [is] not by and by. 10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: 11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. 12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14 Settle [it] therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake. 18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19 In your patience possess ye your souls. ... 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

This link has a pretty good study about the subject.

Removal of the devils children:

41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

Their fate:

42And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

God's true children

31And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven. Matthew 24:31

Eternal Paradise:

43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand! Matthew 13:43

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Not really. Go ahead, cite a verse.

I already did that in my Post #63 that you seem to have not read...

...where I had written (of those verses),

...for example, the following verses use the word you are talking about, but IT DOESN'T *mean* here "to take as COMPANION" [as in, "chummy" aims and outcomes] (like you want it to ALWAYS mean), instead it can mean, to take for the purpose OF JUDGMENT [for the one being "taken [/took] - G3880":

[then I supplied 2 verses... go back and look at that post]

^ and BY THAT, I meant, the individual was "TAKEN [/TOOK]" to a place [that of JUDGMENT / for the PURPOSE and INTENTION of JUDGMENT];
They weren't "chums".






____________

On a different note (if the readers are interested)... another Greek word that LIKEWISE can have POSITIVE or NEGATIVE "end / effects / outcome / aim / purpose [/MEANINGS]" (DEPENDING ON CONTEXT) is the Greek word "sullambanó" (G4815), "from 'sun/syn' and 'lambano,'" which can mean "CONCEIVE [/become pregnant]" (YAY!), *or* can mean "SEIZE / APPREHEND [for prison]" (Ooo YIKES! YUCK!) - https://biblehub.com/greek/4815.htm (that is, it can be / carrying the meaning of either a POSITIVE end/effect/outcome/aim/purpose OR a NEGATIVE end/effect/outcome/aim/purpose [for the individual BEING G4815'd]--it all DEPENDS ON *CONTEXT*).

Now one could ARGUE that Sally didn't WANT to "become pregnant / conceive" so that's a NEGATIVE for HER; and that Fred will reform in prison so that's a POSITIVE for HIM; but THAT IS TO MISS THE POINT!!!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Removal of the devils children:

41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

Their fate:

42And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

God's true children

31And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven. Matthew 24:31

Eternal Paradise:

43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand! Matthew 13:43

Matthew 13 (and Matthew 24 [-25]) is in the context of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age. (It is NOT a "rapture [IN THE AIR]" CONTEXT.)

So Matt13 / Matt24 [/Lk17] take place in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that of "our Rapture" event.





[as I mentioned in an earlier post, the disciples' question to Jesus in Matthew 24:3 (re: the end [singular] of the age [singular]) was BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" / earthly MK age)--They knew NOTHING about "rapture / snatch [IN THE AIR]," at/to that point, b/c Jesus had NOT YET SPOKEN to them about THAT Subject]

 

[Psalm1]

In many past posts I've explained why I do not believe the "10 Virgins [plural]" NOR the "5 Virgins [plural]" represent US / "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (whom He ALONE will be "MARRYING" / to whom ALONE pertains "THE MARRIAGE");


--I've pointed out how Matthew 24:42-51's PARALLEL passage is Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 which passage states clearly: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (i.e. He will "RETURN" as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom [WITH US], NOT to "MARRY" the "wise / BLESSED servants" of this Luke 12 [and Matt24 PARALLEL] CONTEXT, though they will indeed be "believers" also (having come to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--the "BLESSED" ones are saved, I mean).
They will exist on the earth at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, and be present THERE when He "RETURNS" to the earth, [they] never having *lifted off* the earth [as WE WILL be];


--I've pointed out how the "10 Virgins [plural]" (or even the "5 Virgins [plural]") are the BRIDESMAIDS... just like we read of in Psalm 45 (esp. see v.14 with this PLURAL word used there)--This is NOT whom He is "MARRYING" (He is "marrying" the "A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]" [ALONE!]-2Cor11:2; He will not be "marrying" the "FRIEND" of the bridegroom" either (though John the Baptist is ALSO a saved person who we will see in "eternity" [for lack of a better expression ATM, I'm getting tired, lol].);


--I've pointed out how the "LAMPS LIT" takes place "IN THE NIGHT" (i.e. IN the TRIB yrs), and drew attention to such in the OT passages like: Exodus 27:20-21 ("from evening to morning") and Lev24:2-3 (same); whereas WE will NOT BE HERE on the earth during THAT TIME PERIOD (see again 1Th5:1-3 and elsewhere); BY CONTRAST, "our Rapture" PRECEDES the "IN THE NIGHT" time period and our "change" (accompanying that point in time / event) takes place "IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE" (which is a very specific time on the clock, so to speak, being an expression [/idiom?] having the meaning: "when one day turns into the next, when the sun is eight-degrees below the horizon, AT SUNDOWN" [that is, PRIOR TO the "IN THE NIGHT" time-period in which the AC will exist in his role, doing all he is slated to do [7 yrs]).

WE / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY will not step ONE INCH into "the Day of the Lord" [TRIB aspect], we will be "caught up [/snatched-out]" (and "changed," of course) immediately preceding THAT POINT in the chronology [we will NOT enter the "TRIB / DOTL [trib aspect]"], which COMMENCES with "SEAL #1 / the INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3, aka Matt24:4/Mk13:5 I just spelled out in an earlier post]--the SEALS *ARE* the "beginning of birth PANGS [plural]"--WE will not exist on the earth during THAT TIME-PERIOD [the TRIB yrs]... AT ALL);


--I've explained why "and destroyed [G622] them-all [G537]" (Lk17:27,29--parallel to the Matt24 passage ['taken' and 'left' CONTEXT also]) is NOT what takes place following "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" (to those unsaved persons who don't GO in the Rapture)--This is INSTEAD a "Second Coming TO THE EARTH [Rev19]" CONTEXT, not a "rapture" context.
What happens after our Rapture (to those left on the earth [they weren't saved prior to the Rapture]) is that SOME will come to faith, whereas OTHERS will be the ones TO WHOM "God shall SEND TO THEM strong delusion SO THAT they should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" (IN the TRIB yrs [WE won't BE HERE!]); Paul is CONTRASTING those TWO "OPPOSITE" beliefs people WILL BE coming to, FOLLOWING "our Rapture," in his BOOKENDED passages found in: 2Th chpt 1... and chpt 2:10-12;
I've pointed out how that, in Scripture, wherever the related phrases "IN THAT DAY" and "THE DAY OF THE LORD" are used in the SAME CONTEXT [as is used here in THESE TWO CHPTS also], they are referring to THE SAME TIME PERIOD);




I could say a billion more things, on this point, LOL, but I've already made a GREAT MANY posts making these same points (anyone is free to "SEARCH" them out, at any time... it will save me a ton of typing here, haha).





Bottom line, "the BRIDE / WIFE [SINGULAR]" is NOT the "10 or even 5 VirginS [PLURAL]"... He is NOT "MARRYING" the latter of these! (they're the BRIDESMAIDS!! and THEY pertain to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [aka the *earthly* MK age when He will "RETURN" to the earth], NOT "the MARRIAGE" itself! [which PRECEDES that point in the chronology!!])

The last supper dialogue matches The Jewish wedding betrothal.
The church is ThE bride.
The bride becomes the wife in heaven at rev19.
Marriage supper in heaven as the last supper dialogue declares.

In the Jewish wedding,the groom returns FROM THE WEDDING ,TO THE BRIDES DWELLING ( that would be from heaven to earth).
He fetches his bride ( ahem, not bridesmaid's as you erroneously inject) and taks her BACK TO HIS FATHERS HOUSE.
He returns from the wedding. ( the wedding has not happened yet) to earth.
He is not on earth. He is in heaven and preparing for the dwelling of his bride (again not some made up bridesmaids)
Look how that parable ends
13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."

You are declaring yourself as a non bride?
Jesus returns for his bride.
You claim to study but most all your points are easily challenged and proven wrong.
The heart of heaven is the pretrib rapture.
The RAPTURE is the GATHERING OF THE BRIDE.
Your theory and misplacement has Jesus going into the marriage chamber with "bridesmaids"
Just plain impossible.

Huh?? Your theory makes less sense. Are you saying He only takes half His body?

The context is the Second Coming.
Matt.24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Christ likens it to the days of Noah.
Matt.24:37
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Just as on the day Noah entered the Ark and the unbelievers were swept away by the flood, so shall the day that Christ returns and unbelievers will be taken away.
Matt.24:38-39
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Now, if you wish to enter the Kingdom of God when it is established on Earth and not be swept away, keep watch and be aware.
Matt.24:42
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming

In the same vein, Matt.25 continues with the subject of the Second Coming and who will enter and who will not. The foolish virgins are unbelievers who are kept out of the Kingdom while the wise are those who enter the Millennial rule of Christ on Earth. We know the foolish virgins are unbelievers because Christ says "He does not know them". (cmp.Lk.13:27; Matt.7:23)
Matt.25:11-13
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

As for your literal interpretation of exactly one half of Earth's population, one would also have to assume that every endeavour of people on the day would have to have an even number and at least two performing the event. The point being, it is not literal, it is an example of what will take place. There are those who will remain on Earth to enter Christ's Millennial rule and there are those who will be removed.

Matthew 24 and 25 is not dealing with the Resurrection of the Church but the Lord's return to Earth and the establishment of His rule.

Who is Jesus addressing when he says he will spew them out of his mouth?
Who is he addressing when he says he will REMOVE their candlestick?
Who is Paul addressing when he says they are carnal believers?
Foolish virgins....that's who.

Your assumption that a group that is pure, undefiled, set aside, ( virgins) , that have light ( only believers have light), that have oil( your false assumption that unbelievers have oil..really??????),and are waiting for Jesus,and sleeping with those that have the Holy Ghost....ARE UNBELIEVERS????????
HUH??????
But it gets worse.
It is a group.
And you say half that group is wicked, half righteous.
Totally ridiculous. Never has been that ratio and never will be.

As far as spiritualizing the parable. Yes the components are analogies.

But you actually need the COMPONENTS changed.
SMH

 

[Psalm1]

Huh?? Your theory makes less sense. Are you saying He only takes half His body?

The context is the Second Coming.
Matt.24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Christ likens it to the days of Noah.
Matt.24:37
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Just as on the day Noah entered the Ark and the unbelievers were swept away by the flood, so shall the day that Christ returns and unbelievers will be taken away.
Matt.24:38-39
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Now, if you wish to enter the Kingdom of God when it is established on Earth and not be swept away, keep watch and be aware.
Matt.24:42
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming

In the same vein, Matt.25 continues with the subject of the Second Coming and who will enter and who will not. The foolish virgins are unbelievers who are kept out of the Kingdom while the wise are those who enter the Millennial rule of Christ on Earth. We know the foolish virgins are unbelievers because Christ says "He does not know them". (cmp.Lk.13:27; Matt.7:23)
Matt.25:11-13
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

As for your literal interpretation of exactly one half of Earth's population, one would also have to assume that every endeavour of people on the day would have to have an even number and at least two performing the event. The point being, it is not literal, it is an example of what will take place. There are those who will remain on Earth to enter Christ's Millennial rule and there are those who will be removed.

Matthew 24 and 25 is not dealing with the Resurrection of the Church but the Lord's return to Earth and the establishment of His rule.

See what you just did?
It say as the days BEFORE THE FLOOD.
THE SETTING NEVER MATTERS TO POSTRIBBERS.
In fact, that can never be allowed.
Psssst....BEFORE THE FLOOD.
Read it slooowwwly.
Nobody killed BEFORE THE FLOOD

BUT...in contrast to your mismanagement of scripture, one is taken and one is left.
It CAN NOT BE earth's population.
Impossible.
You can twist it, omit it, reframe it, torture it all you want. But if you change it, ( as you did other verses) , you are actually tampering with the testimony of God.

I mean really????
You guys can take what is written as in Acts chapter 1, where it says "this same Jesus you see going up into heaven shall return in like manner?"

You can actually take that Vivid picture and add to it a war zone Lord Jesus coming in a different way with white horses???
the Lord Jesus coming as a warrior and to take Vengeance and to kill the devil with millions of horses???
you can actually add all of that to Acts chapter 1 and you don't have a single red flag?uh maybe he is coming in "LIKE MANNER".
HMMMM...looks like we own all of that, and postrib rapture doctrine, needs their entire poorly thought out eschatology remitted to file 13.

One coming????
One coming?????
You guys serious ?????

 

[Psalm1]

Huh?? Your theory makes less sense. Are you saying He only takes half His body?

The context is the Second Coming.
Matt.24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Christ likens it to the days of Noah.
Matt.24:37
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Just as on the day Noah entered the Ark and the unbelievers were swept away by the flood, so shall the day that Christ returns and unbelievers will be taken away.
Matt.24:38-39
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Now, if you wish to enter the Kingdom of God when it is established on Earth and not be swept away, keep watch and be aware.
Matt.24:42
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming

In the same vein, Matt.25 continues with the subject of the Second Coming and who will enter and who will not. The foolish virgins are unbelievers who are kept out of the Kingdom while the wise are those who enter the Millennial rule of Christ on Earth. We know the foolish virgins are unbelievers because Christ says "He does not know them". (cmp.Lk.13:27; Matt.7:23)
Matt.25:11-13
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

As for your literal interpretation of exactly one half of Earth's population, one would also have to assume that every endeavour of people on the day would have to have an even number and at least two performing the event. The point being, it is not literal, it is an example of what will take place. There are those who will remain on Earth to enter Christ's Millennial rule and there are those who will be removed.

Matthew 24 and 25 is not dealing with the Resurrection of the Church but the Lord's return to Earth and the establishment of His rule.

You seem to try on interpreting the spiritual meaning of items in analogies.
What does the ark represent?
The place Noah was gathered into pretrib?
How high into the sky was Noah carried?
How high into the HEAVENS was Noah for the ENTIRE tribulation period???
AFTER THE TRIB did Noah RETURN TO EARTH???

IOW Noah was into the ark pretrib. And RETURNED postrib.

That bonus for you guys is NOWHERE in your doctrine, and yes, it must be frustrating.

Pretrib rapture is the only position that fits Noah in every single dimension.
But it gets worse because Jesus framed both Noah and lot in the same analogy. God removes his people before the tribulation.

it is such a clear and Vivid message that Jesus actually used two analogies so that people would not come up with this silly post tribulation rapture

 

[Psalm1]

Are we talking about the same verses?
I'm talking about a Greek word in Matthew 24:39.

Do you agree or DISAGREE that the Greek word in Matthew 24:39 (for "took-away") is G142 ?
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/24/39/t_concif_953039
-- https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/24-39.htm ;

and that it can carry the meaning of (as I'd pointed out):
8. to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence

-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g142/kjv/tr/0-1/

[and]

"h. to take from among the living, either by a natural death, John 17:15 (ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου take away from contact with the world), or by violence, Matthew 24:39;

--[under the heading "Thayer's Greek Lexicon"] https://biblehub.com/greek/142.htm



So in the above, I am pointing out what happened to the "THEY [and 'THEM-ALL']" of THIS TEXT (i.e. the ones who were "taken-away" IN JUDGMENT *by means of* the FLOOD-JUDGMENT.) That wasn't Noah & crew, but the UNBELIEVERS / UNSAVED persons.



I also pointed out how the word YOU are talking about carries BOTH a POSITIVE *and* a NEGATIVE [end-result] outcome / meaning DEPENDING ON CONTEXT (in the SAME WAY that this word *I* am talking about ^ does, DEPENDING ON CONTEXT):
in this case, "WHO" is DOING the "taken" thing [and by what authority and to what purpose/end, whether POSITIVE *or* NEGATIVE for those being "taken"])...

...for example, the following verses use the word you are talking about, but IT DOESN'T *mean* here "to take as COMPANION" [as in, "chummy" aims and outcomes] (like you want it to ALWAYS mean), instead it can mean, to take for the purpose OF JUDGMENT [for the one being "taken [/took]":

--"Mat 27:27 - Then the soldiers of the governor took G3880 Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers."

--"Jhn 19:16 - Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took G3880 Jesus, and led him away."

I'd pointed out in an earlier post, that in the case of Matt24:40-41 and Luk17:34,36, it will be the ANGELS / REAPERS (whom "HE SHALL SEND" to do so) will be the ones "taken" (as in, "taken [away IN JUDGMENT]" by the angels / reapers, who will be [have been] told to, "collect ye FIRST the TARES..." [that is, to NEGATIVE outcome for the ones being "taken," here in these texts, not for "chummy" purposes]).
Remember how I pointed out, the disciples' question to Jesus in Matt24:3 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]") was BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN TO THEM about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... when the angels will "REAP"... The angels/reapers are authorized to "collect YE first the TARES". (THEY will be the instruments serving this aim.)

So what I am saying is, that IT DOESN'T MATTER what Greek word is used (if it carries that same ultimate meaning [or result], it's legit), it DEPENDS ON CONTEXT ("who" is DOING the verb, and TO WHAT PURPOSE / END).


It'd be like (according to your argument / reasoning), if you and I have a conversation about the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," and you say to me, "hey, I'm very eager for our harpagēsometha [FOR/TO 'the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR']," and I reply back to you, "Not me! Nope. What *I'm eager for INSTEAD is 'our episynagōgēs UNTO HIM"... and then you say to me, "uh, buddy, that's referring to THE SAME THING"... and I reply with, "nope, they are completely DIFFERENT Greek words!!" (uh... This is TERRIBLE REASONING!)



[for the readers: bottom line - the CONTEXT of Matthew 24 [Lk17] is NOWHERE covering the Subject of "our Rapture / SNATCH [IN THE AIR]" but ALL ABOUT His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the commencement of the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, and who it is who will be granted entrance into it upon His "RETURN" (to the earth); EVERYTHING from 24:4 onward is what takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture" [and takes place in the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 speaks to, which IS the "7 year period" we call the Tribulation period--WE / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY will NOT be present on the earth for that time-period (and as reminder: 1Th4:17 is IN THE CONTEXT OF 1Th3:13! That *location* is EVEN HIGHER UP from that of the "meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR" location!) "Rapture [G726]" pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]"]; it does NOT pertain to all other "saints" of all OTHER time-periods: not to OT saints, not to TRIB saints, not to MK-age saints!)]





Whew, I'm outta breath! lol

This entire deal does not fly

You got people taken before the flood in Matt 24, and you say they are the wicked?
Are you saying some believers ( Noah) are taken safely in the ark into the heavens and the wicked are removed preflood, then the righteous ( those left behind), float around ( half Earth's population) on driftwood?
Huh?????

I got to hear this response.

 

[sawdust]

You seem to try on interpreting the spiritual meaning of items in analogies.
What does the ark represent?
The place Noah was gathered into pretrib?
How high into the sky was Noah carried?
How high into the HEAVENS was Noah for the ENTIRE tribulation period???
AFTER THE TRIB did Noah RETURN TO EARTH???

IOW Noah was into the ark pretrib. And RETURNED postrib.

That bonus for you guys is NOWHERE in your doctrine, and yes, it must be frustrating.

Pretrib rapture is the only position that fits Noah in every single dimension.
But it gets worse because Jesus framed both Noah and lot in the same analogy. God removes his people before the tribulation.

it is such a clear and Vivid message that Jesus actually used two analogies so that people would not come up with this silly post tribulation rapture

Strewth, three posts from you and none of them is coherent.

Matt.24 has nothing to do with the Resurrection so it is not talking about a pre or post trib rapture.

There is only one group of people Jesus does not know and that is unbelievers. Being a carnal believer does not make you an unbeliever. Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit irrespective of whether they walk by means of the Spirit or their flesh. Naughty children are disciplined, not disowned.

Those taken in Matt.24:40-41 are unbelievers removed from the earth at the coming of Christ just like the unbelievers were removed from the earth on the day the flood came. You would have Christ return to rule over unbelievers only? Makes no sense.

You are all over the place and I'm not interested in playing leap frog with you.

 

[ewq1938]

I already did that in my Post #63 that you seem to have not read...

Your posts are unreadable.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
"We who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in
the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." (1Thess 4:17)

I was a young paratrooper with the 101st Airborne Division during the
Cuban missile crises. My unit was fully armed and equipped, ready to be in
the air within one hour had President Kennedy given us the green light.

Anyway, my point is: I was always amazed how quiet and peaceful it is
outside an aircraft in the open atmosphere. (Well; except maybe for a few
guys around me whooping and yelling to each other; but other than that:
just silence. Some guys loved jumping but for me it was only duty and a way
to earn a little extra pay.)

Now; I've seen lots of photos of the earth from space but I have never seen
it from space with my own eyes. That'll be a treat. However; I expect the
ride up to be kinda scary because with a parachute, at least I had something
to hang on to, but in space I'll be walking on air (so to speak) with no visible
means of support.
_

 

[sawdust]

That'll be a treat. However; I expect the
ride up to be kinda scary because with a parachute, at least I had something
to hang on to, but in space I'll be walking on air (so to speak) with no visible
means of support.

She'll be right mate, you'll have us, the body and the head, Christ to support you.

 

[Iconoclast]

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Why are there so many different opinions about the rapture. Here is a warning directly from Jesus. it sounds scary but in reality it is a comforting warning:

[Luk 21:8-19, 25-27 KJV] 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. 9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end [is] not by and by. 10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: 11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. 12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14 Settle [it] therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake. 18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19 In your patience possess ye your souls. ... 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

This link has a pretty good study about the subject.

This has nothing to do with the Rapture. Those" taken" are taken in judgment.

 

[ewq1938]

This has nothing to do with the Rapture. Those" taken" are taken in judgment.

Nope. The one taken is taken by Christ and is a similar word for rapture/harpazo. LEFT means to reject and leave to die. That would be those left to suffer God's judgment.