Understanding God’s election

Yeah...and what exactly did Issac and Jacob have to do with God's eternal decree that he made regarding their eternal destiny? Were Issac and Jacob seated next to God's throne in heaven begging him to make that decree on their behalf?

Agree......lets do P for "preservation".
Far more accurate description in light of Who is actually doing the preserving and who is getting preserved.

Or ultimately Who is actually doing the holding-on and who thinks they are doing the holding-on.
Which is what these passages portray....
But lets not forget.....Jacob was doing his part in this drama as an act of his own will no doubt about that.

[Gen 32:24 KJV]
And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

[Gen 32:25 KJV]
And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

[Gen 32:26 KJV]
And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

[Gen 32:27 KJV]
And he said unto him, What [is] thy name? And he said, Jacob.

[Gen 32:28 KJV]
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

I've moved nothing. I addressed the post before me.

I believe the scripture provides ample evidence of man's fallen estate and tells why man is incapable of faith apart from the work of God on his behalf. This has been shown to you on numerable occasions. You simply choose to disregard it.

There would be absolutely no tares in the Church

It's ridiculous the lengths the doctrine will go in direct opposition to what God reveals about Himself.

"Total Depravity..." is a misnomer.

It might be more accurate to say..... Man has "Inherited Depravity."

Man is inherently depraved.

Total Depravity would be making it to be that there is nothing for God to save.
It would be like saying a car that is declared to be 'totalled' has nothing good in its content.
Yet, many parts may be perfectly fine, and to be transferred to another vehicle that will use those parts.

I know for a fact that a number of people have shared dozens and dozens of verses that display man's inability due to his fallen nature.

I've moved nothing. I addressed the post before me.

I believe the scripture provides ample evidence of man's fallen estate and tells why man is incapable of faith apart from the work of God on his behalf. This has been shown to you on numerable occasions. You simply choose to disregard it.

I agree that God works within the choices of men. But if you read Acts 2:37 you find God enabling ears to here and circumsizes the heart. I believe this is what alters the volition and leads to...what shall we do?
Many more than 3000 people heard Peter's sermon. What caused some to believe while others did not? As I understand the passage, the working of hearing and the pricking of the heart is the answer. Both these things done internally are works that only God can do. So while I believe fallen man has the ability to understand and make choices, I also believe that those choices are subject to His nature. Since I don't believe choosing God to be possible in the fallen nature, I believe God must first alter the corruption of the fallen nature before man can choose outside of that nature and its corruption.

In other words, you can't prove it. .

Um, what? The church is saved people. You know? Those called out. Oh, wait. Do you believe
people are called? Any ways, if you properly define words, there are no tares in the Body of Christ.
They are contradictory terms. Aside from that, your logic is a massive fail because people are not
stupid, just depraved. They don't call largely successful criminals "master minds" for nothing.

"Total Depravity..." is a misnomer.

It might be more accurate to say..... Man has "Inherited Depravity."

Man is inherently depraved.

Total Depravity would be making it to be that there is nothing for God to save.
It would be like saying a car that is declared to be 'totalled' has nothing good in its content.
Yet, many parts may be perfectly fine, and to be transferred to another vehicle that will use those parts.

No, Total Depravity is not a misnomer. It's dead on the mark since it's the heart of man (which is the seat of ALL four of man's faculties) that is corrupt.

And there are NO good working parts in man. Only God alone is good! And only the Holy Spirit who indwells believers is Good.

I don't disagree with what your saying here.

It is a fact that the prime mover in salvation is Christ alone, I am a strong on the sovereignty of God.

Unfortunately, we are constant wresting within ourselves between serving Jesus and self fulfillment.

There are two playing fields in Romans, the sovereignty of God and mankind's choices.

Do we choose salvation as Gentiles?

Of course we don't and never could until Israel chose to oppose Jesus.

This is what Romans is teaching us.

Israel failed and were grafted out which enabled abundant grace for the Gentiles.

Israel were the original chosen people of God not the Gentiles.

The Gentiles were an unknown nation to make Israel jealous.

Paul is not giving a sermon on sovereignty.

Paul is explaining why Israel failed to achieve righteous through the law.

If you ignore the CONTEXT in Romans you will fail to understand what Paul is talking about.

You will end up being baptized into Calvinism just like the different groups in Corinth.

Do you think that this >>> one poetic figurative sentence refutes all of Christ's Jesus statements to Believe?

The wicked have turned away from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth.

Even if I accept that this means all babies are born liars throughout all time in all places because David was feeling low and down on the mouth it still comes nowhere near making a statement about how people are spiritually saved.

As you well know and I have stated many times clear passages interpret less clear passages and Jesus clearly stated... Believe in Me!

So far not one has been about spiritual salvation and being born (did you see it Born!!) unable to respond positively to the Power and Truth of the Gospel message.

Everyone who has escaped this soul crushing doctrine knows very well about how it is all done via singular proof texts with no real context.

Rufus? How many Pharisees did Jesus take a lot of time trying to explain the truth to?

Pray tell us whether men are responsible to respond to Gods call or not.

The Scriptures say that men are obliged to so do. Calvinites say that mean are utterly incapable. Of both hearing or heeding.

Calvinites demand that the ONLY way to salvation for EACH MAN is a pre-birth lottery type deal. Nothing else matters, nothing else is a factor. Because there are simply no other options available to the supposedly totally depraved supposedly spiritually dead doomed blind and deaf sinners.

But the unregenerate are "stupid" when it comes to spiritual truth (Eccl 10:3). They have no spiritual understanding (Rom 3:11).

"Total Depravity..." is a misnomer.

It might be more accurate to say..... Man has "Inherited Depravity."

Man is inherently depraved.

Total Depravity would be making it to be that there is nothing for God to save.
It would be like saying a car that is declared to be 'totalled' has nothing good in its content.
Yet, many parts may be perfectly fine, and to be transferred to another vehicle that will use those parts.