The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

There are no requirements for salvation because God does it all. 1 Cor 1: 29-31 That no flesh should glory in His presence. But of (by) Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of (by) God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption; That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
That means such ideas like: I made the right decision, I made it, I did the right things, I believed the right things, and it was I who chose to believe will be preventing people from being in His presence (entering heaven).

Because "God does it all" (1CR 1:29-31), then because God loves all (JN 3:16, 1TM 2:3-4), all are saved.
That is a happy thought , but not Scriptural .
The implied hermeneutical need is to harmonize these two passages so they are not contradictory. Do you want to go first?

Why equate responsibility with blame? You make a mistake to think the will is free just because man makes choices. Scripture plainly says man is a slave to sin and taken captive to the will of the devil. Has God allowed this or not? Has God provided a solution for this, or not? Y'all crack me up thinking those within whom NOTHING good exists, who are lovers of darkness and hostile to God, will freely choose Him in that condition. The Bible never mentions man's "free will." Yas gotta stop making stuff up and clinging to it like a life raft.


Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?

Sure. The Father and Son are two different beings for the simple fact that they talk to each other. The Son is filled with the Father's Holy Spirit. From Isaiah 63: 9-10 the Holy Spirit is the angel of the Father's presence. Where the Holy Spirit is, the Father is. The Father fills His Son with His Holy Spirit, so that, the Father resides in His Son. There are two different minds, but since the Son perfectly obeys the Father, the Son is the image of the invisible God (the Father). The reason why the Father and Son are One is because the Son is connected to the Father through the Father's Holy Spirit and he obeys the Father. The Holy Spirit acts as a portal through which the Father can enter the being indwelled. When we get baptized with the Holy Spirit, we receive this portal, and we become the temple of both Father and Son, and become One with them.
The Son died for all humanity and desires that all be saved, but the Father's justice and mercy allows for only chosen ones to be saved.
How do you harmonize those two passages?

Yes agreed, faith does not just arise out of a vacuum.

The verse you quote is my entire point.

Faith is not a virtue, but a positive response to what God has said or done.

Faith is being persuaded and convicted that something is true!

John 3:19-20 and from Psalm 10:4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come
into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord

By not ascribing schizophrenia to the Trinity. Both God the Father and the Son desire and allow all to be saved, but only those who cooperate with God's POS qualify for mercy and those who reject God's Way reap justice/damnation. Too easy?!

And so Paul preached

“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:8-11, 13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

For they that sleep, sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your an edifying sister

I wondered if Uncle Albert would like how wildly colorful that panel is... .

You are very edifying also, Ph... even with our different perspectives, of which this idea of free will seems to be a dividing point. For so many verses make the case that being a slave to sin and captive to the will of the devil seem to get overlooked by a lot of people while they rush to proclaim the fact of something that I cannot even find in my Bible, and this does not in any way overlook the fact that man makes choices, but rather affirms the fact that the choices man makes are in accordance with the nature of his heart, which is corrupted by sin and in need of rescue. There are also many verses where we are exhorted to make the right choice, such choices being available to those who are already freed from sin's dominion, but people erroneously apply them to the unregenerate also. It is for freedom that we are set free. Free to make the right choice, which is pleasing to God as opposed to pleasing to man in his natural state while a slave to sin, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, and hostile to God, unable to obey. We also have those who claim that God is not even required to help move people along on their journey to faith, that He is unfair if He does something for one person and does not do the exact same thing for another, and kidnaps people against their will if He acts unilaterally. If nothing else these ideas provide grist for the grinder of my creative impetus..

uncle Arthur ?lol

ayes I don’t feel divided from you because we don’t agree on certain details and points sister . I feel together with you because we believe in Jesus .

whether you think God chose and made it happen , or I think he’s made it possible for everyone . Either way the one who brings us together is far more important than details either of us could be wrong about

if a person believes they believe , however mechanically this came about both of us agree mankinds ability to hear and believe Gods word is given from God

the difference is I believe everyone has been given that ability from God. Either way we believe because the lord made us able . Those who don’t believe however I don’t believe God didn’t give them the ability to hear what he said I believe they refused it

Bit again this isn’t to try to make you agree or see it my way so we can still be siblings in the lord lol your stuck with me even if I get on your nerves homefry

just …. Accept it lol

For some reason when you spoke about yourself in terms of your nephew, The Beatles song about Admiral Halsey and uncle Albert always came to mind... So I may have thought that was your name and I do apologize if I'm mistaken .I am always fine going by the name Magenta which was actually given to me by a dear friend who has since departed this world after managing to hang on to life long enough to make it to this new millennium... I worked with her for many years and she also sort of kind of maybe 12 stepped me, which is part of my story and testimony because the program was instrumental in giving me the freedom I needed to explore the profundities of spirituality which did of course include concepts of God and what I believed about Him, where those ideas came from, etc etc.

I was most definitely not a believer in those days, and I was against organized religion, as many non-believers are, to the point where as much as I may have had a positive view of Who Jesus was, I definitely did not know Him (even after an upbringing in a Christian home) and I also did not want to hear about Him when I went others places to learn of other things which might help me, and it perplexed me why they would even bring Him into the conversation LOL. Yet before my 12 step stuff started in my life, God had revealed Himself to me in a way that let me know I was unconditionally loved and forgiven those things for which I could find no forgiveness for my own self... the magnitude of His love was so great, imparting with it the knowledge that He understood how I had gotten to that place in my life better than anybody else ever would or could, including me... I knew I was unworthy of such love, but I did accept that God loved me, and what an amazing gift to receive at that point in my life because I was at rock bottom then. I am positive it went some distance in saving my life because I was in a lot of emotional pain then and desiring escape, and did start seeking at that stage, in many places, which included fellowships of many stripes (AA, NA, CoDA). It may seem funny, but I accepted the love while rejecting the person. Such is the natural man, though some may claim I was born again even to receive such revelation as I had. God opened my ears and eyes to a fact which did not majorly change my thinking about the Biblical God. Perhaps I should tell you I had that experience when I went to a church while wondering about Who Jesus was, and it was like being flooded with Light. Even so, I walked away from that church essentially thinking how nice it was to know God loved me but how unfortunate I had to find out in a church LOL. (I had gone to see a movie on the life of Christ based on the gospel of Luke.)

Even so the fellowships' goal is to help people develop and maintain a personal relationship with God, however one understands Him, no matter how opposed to Him they are, and many are they who come in that state of opposition, but stay despite that for other reasons, not the least of which is finding guidance and support along with inspiration and many examples of people overcoming and turning their lives around no matter the wreckage they have caused so far. And so too did I finally stay after years of just listening to people share their experiences, strengths and hope, while also articulating their challenges and sorrows. I needed to hear it all, and loved hearing people's God stories. I had always known there was something behind the everything we saw and had had numerous experiences with the numinous...

You are easy to accept because you show so much grace...

Why equate blame and responsibility? Because the Oxford Dictionary does so:

Why equate free will and making choices? Because the Merriam-Webster Dictionary does so:

For some reason when you spoke about yourself in terms of your nephew, The Beatles song about Admiral Halsey and uncle Albert always came to mind... So I may have thought that was your name and I do apologize if I'm mistaken ”

Hahahaha my name is Ezekiel, most folks call me Zeke most of my life close friends and family called me Zz

you can call me Albert if you wish sister seems a pleasant name to me haha . I thought you were mentioning my “ uncle Arthur “ who isn’t welcome in my home but sticks around anyways ….he’s really causing problems in this “ joint “ lol arthritus isn’t fun but still haha

“So I may have thought that was your name and I do apologize if I'm mistaken .I am always fine going by the name Magenta which was actually given to me by a dear friend who has since departed this world after managing to hang on to life long enough to make it to this new millennium... I worked with her for many years and she also sort of kind of maybe 12 stepped me, which is part of my story and testimony because the program was instrumental in giving me the freedom I needed to explore the profundities of spirituality which did of course include concepts of God and what I believed about Him, where those ideas came from, etc etc. “

No apology needed you can calll me Al call me Al doo doot door doot … dee doot doot doot

sure I imagined magenta was a screen name like pilgrimshope I reckon I’ve settled on calling you a blessed indeed sister in the lord besides magenta is a nice color

“God opened my ears and eyes to a fact which did not majorly change my thinking about the Biblical God. Perhaps I should tell you I had that experience when I went to a church while wondering about Who Jesus was, and it was like being flooded with Light. “

praise the good lord for that one and I’m glad to hear it it’s a good witness !

“You are easy to accept because you show so much grace”

because I really need a lot of grace which I also recognize in you and others here like “the ole curmudgeon “ brother Cameron as I call him lol I do t think the nickname caught on yet but he also shows a lot of grace towards me probably more than you haha cuz we have a few more points where we don’t agree completely

But he is a pretty gracious brother and also easy to talk to . ( Not always about doctrine for me ) but as a human bieng and fellow believer in the lord Jesus he’s incredibly easy to accept and even like a lot . I find the same quality in you and some others as well here

i think sometimes a discussion from to opposing views can actually lead to a lot of inderersnding and growth . But sometimes it revolves quickly here to insults or / and “ I’m right , you’re wrong , the end !” So the understanding part is a bit tougher to see because of all the rocks coming at your head lol and tomatoes being hucked at you for disagreeing lol

Little grace can go a long way in Christ and even change hard and seemingly stalemated situations

Why equate free will and making choices?

Do they call you ZZ because you are tops? haha, musical joke there. Zeke is a neat name. And the book... my goodness.

You are right, and I do find Cameron to be extremely graceful towards others, some who obviously do not appreciate it.
Not meaning you, for you are also quite gracious. I still wonder what happened to that one person who was ragging on
you about the way you post at the same time we were in the very same thread talking about how difficult it is for you
to post at all. Well, they have left and came back multiple times under new names so it is likely they are around here
somewhere flying under the radar. I am curious how each of us arrives at our conclusions. But I have very little tolerance
for those who formulate fantabulous fantasies in their mind and then post their absurd theories as if they were facts. Heh.

Yes I think being incorrect is one aspect but then not being able to admit to ourself we are Incorrect when we see the factors are different than we reckoned is another that provides an obstacle . we sometimes face

lol I’m not sure who your talking about I’ve had alot of people complain about my posts . But I’m alright with it others I end up having good conversations with who are able to see past the issues I have with presentation and typing.

I’m sort of hard to actually insult or at least I try to be

Good morning Zeke! Yeah, people say a lot of ridiculous things out of ignorance but then even being informed otherwise does not change their tune. We could say they love their sin and even that is a Biblical truth which gets denied. Haha you have only been here for four years? Sometimes I forget that. Four years is a long time in itself; some people join, make one or two or a few posts and then never return. Some leave after years and we may never know why, or get banned and we may never know why. Some leave and then change their minds some time later and come back under a new name. Maybe they forgot their password. If they had had their previous account deleted and become a guest, they can use the same name again, but many don't know that and they pick a new name. Others leave with the intention of coming back under a new name. This largely buries their past from using the system the way it was designed for searches. We have all kinds here. Sometimes I have been looking at some list connected to my account and I see all the people I have on ignore, LOL and the vast majority of them are now banned. On the old platform when you had someone on ignore, if anyone else quoted them their post would be shown to you, so that is one perk of the new platform, because their post remain hidden even when quoted. When someone becomes a guest their posts appear also. I have seen a lot in my nine years here, people come and go, some barely a blip on the radar. Much water under the bridge and things forgotten. And then I will randomly run across something and be reminded, sometimes it is a real hoot to see such things. That one person I mentioned is the type to regularly become a guest and then comes back soon after with a new name, and she is gone now under the name she was using the day I saw her ragging on you at the same time we spoke of how you labour to post at all. I have lost track of how many times she has done this. At least half a dozen I would say. I also knew of one person who was banned at least that many times and kept coming back under new names. It was a guy but he would even sign up as a woman which gave him access to the Ladies Forum. I rarely post in there though I have let some know there could be men viewing that which they should not be.