The rapture? The comimg of Christ.
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Jesus is the firstfruits of the first resurrection.
That automatically makes the first resurrection more than one part.
Anytime you see "firstfruits" it automatically refers to a harvest and the many parts of harvest, if left out, leads a person into an open interpretation where a mixture is the outcome.
That automatically makes the first resurrection more than one part.
Anytime you see "firstfruits" it automatically refers to a harvest and the many parts of harvest, if left out, leads a person into an open interpretation where a mixture is the outcome.
Revelation 20:5b (your verse ^ ), where it says, "THIS is the resurrection the FIRST [ADJ]"... the word "THIS" is POINTING BACK TO what had just been stated in v.4b which verse pertains ONLY TO the saints having been "beheaded / martyred" in the LAST 3.5 YEARS of the Trib (when the "mark" will have been in effect). It [v.5b] is not referring to any other saints but "THIS".
However, it is NOT true that those "last-3.5-yrs-ONLY-saints" are the ONLY SAINTS to be "resurrected" FOR the MK age! NO!
[It IS only what 4b and 5b are speaking to, however... but that's not all that the rest of the text speaks to!]
However, it is NOT true that those "last-3.5-yrs-ONLY-saints" are the ONLY SAINTS to be "resurrected" FOR the MK age! NO!
[It IS only what 4b and 5b are speaking to, however... but that's not all that the rest of the text speaks to!]
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^
1 Corinthians 15:20 - "[ 1Co 15:20 ] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits [G536 - singular] of them that slept."
And He did this ON "FIRSTFRUIT" [Lev23:10-12] (on that very day).
[John 5:29 says there are TWO KIND of "resurrection": "resurrection OF LIFE" and "resurrection OF JUDGMENT/damnation" - https://www.blueletterbible.org/sea...ia=resurrection+of+life&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1 ]
1 Corinthians 15:20 - "[ 1Co 15:20 ] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits [G536 - singular] of them that slept."
And He did this ON "FIRSTFRUIT" [Lev23:10-12] (on that very day).
[John 5:29 says there are TWO KIND of "resurrection": "resurrection OF LIFE" and "resurrection OF JUDGMENT/damnation" - https://www.blueletterbible.org/sea...ia=resurrection+of+life&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1 ]
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I disagree with the notion that the time-period-amount HAS BEEN "CHANGED". It is still the length of what it has been prophesied to be.
So where these verses say,
Mat 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, G2856 there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. G2856
Mar 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened G2856 those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened G2856 the days.
... the word (G2856) can mean "CURTAILED".
"Except those days should be CURTAILED, there should no flesh be saved [!]..."
... which means, if those [tribulation-period-HORRIBLE-] days were not 'lopped off' when prophesied to (but allowed to CONTINUE instead [i.e. longer than prophesied]), no one would survive! And it is God's purpose to have some 'still-living'-persons [/saints (elect)] to ENTER the MK age [in mortal bodies] otherwise the prophecies concerning it would not be fulfilled... and we know they MUST be!
" (lol)
[I think it's possible that perhaps "ewq1938" has blocked me, and thus would be unable to see any of these posts where I'm addressing his points. Not sure of that, but it seems so to me, based on previous weeks where he doesn't seem to SEE any of my posts addressing his; So if anyone cares to "reiterate" these points, so that he can SEE them via your posts, that's alright with me! ]
So where these verses say,
Mat 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, G2856 there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. G2856
Mar 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened G2856 those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened G2856 the days.
... the word (G2856) can mean "CURTAILED".
"Except those days should be CURTAILED, there should no flesh be saved [!]..."
... which means, if those [tribulation-period-HORRIBLE-] days were not 'lopped off' when prophesied to (but allowed to CONTINUE instead [i.e. longer than prophesied]), no one would survive! And it is God's purpose to have some 'still-living'-persons [/saints (elect)] to ENTER the MK age [in mortal bodies] otherwise the prophecies concerning it would not be fulfilled... and we know they MUST be!
" (lol)[I think it's possible that perhaps "ewq1938" has blocked me, and thus would be unable to see any of these posts where I'm addressing his points. Not sure of that, but it seems so to me, based on previous weeks where he doesn't seem to SEE any of my posts addressing his; So if anyone cares to "reiterate" these points, so that he can SEE them via your posts, that's alright with me!
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Where "ewq1938" mentions the 3.5 years and references "Rev11, 13," those speak to the SECOND HALF of the "7 year period" (i.e. starting at the MID-trib point); but there are 3.5 years (the FIRST HALF) that PRECEDE that... and ALL related passages AGREE.
The "whose COMING / ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" (of the man of sin) 2Th2:9a (when he is "revealed") takes place 3.5 years BEFORE he does the "who SITTETH in the temple of God" thing at MID-trib, 2Th2:4b.
This corresponds also with how Daniel 12:1-4[,6-7] (MID-trib) commences 3.5 years AFTER the Daniel 11:36 (his ARRIVAL) point in time. (Same in Dan9:27a and 9:27b!)
And also how SEAL #1 (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3 & Matt24:4/Mk13:5]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of), the rider on the wht horse WITH A "BOW" ("bow" often meaning "DECEPTION") takes place 3.5 years prior to what ewq1938 is referencing (MID-point) by his pointing out "Rev11, 13"
The "whose COMING / ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" (of the man of sin) 2Th2:9a (when he is "revealed") takes place 3.5 years BEFORE he does the "who SITTETH in the temple of God" thing at MID-trib, 2Th2:4b.
This corresponds also with how Daniel 12:1-4[,6-7] (MID-trib) commences 3.5 years AFTER the Daniel 11:36 (his ARRIVAL) point in time. (Same in Dan9:27a and 9:27b!)
And also how SEAL #1 (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3 & Matt24:4/Mk13:5]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of), the rider on the wht horse WITH A "BOW" ("bow" often meaning "DECEPTION") takes place 3.5 years prior to what ewq1938 is referencing (MID-point) by his pointing out "Rev11, 13"
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^ Everything from Rev4:1 onward (to Rev19) [or from 6:2 unfolding upon the earth] is what takes place IN / DURING / WITHIN those "SEVEN YEARS," per what "Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1" informs us
("things which MUST come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN; 1:1]")
So "ewq1983" is basically misplacing THE FIRST HALF (of those "7 years") [chpts 4-5 and 6-10;... but "ewq1938" only recognizes "11,13" as its STARTING POINT. Nope.]
[It is NOT the case the the "SEALS" began to be opened back in the first century, as the Historicists have it. No.]
("things which MUST come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN; 1:1]")
So "ewq1983" is basically misplacing THE FIRST HALF (of those "7 years") [chpts 4-5 and 6-10;... but "ewq1938" only recognizes "11,13" as its STARTING POINT. Nope.]
[It is NOT the case the the "SEALS" began to be opened back in the first century, as the Historicists have it. No.]
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That still means to be shortened. The trib is not the same length it once was going to be which is why we see it as only 42 months rather than 84 months.
G2856
κολοβόω
koloboō
Thayer Definition:
1) to mutilate
2) in NT: to shorten, abridge, curtail
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of the base of G2849
No, Rev 13 shows it is the start of what's known as the trib. The beast arises and has 42 months. Rev 11 also speaks of 42 months and shows the end of the trib so the total length is 42 months, half of the original length.
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
No, that's when GREAT tribulation [the SECOND HALF] starts (not when the tribulation period IN ITS ENTIRETY begins, which is back at SEAL #1).
So Rev13 is the same time-slot as both Matt24:15,21 [/2Th2:4b / Dan9:27b / (and around) Dan12:11... etc],
...but that's not the BEGINNING OF the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN; Rv1:1] time-period [per Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1], which will have started way back at SEAL #1 [/ Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 - "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"--2Th2:9a / Dan11:36 / Dan9:27a "For ONE WEEK [7 YRS!]"]...
... and this is PROVEN by what Paul states in 1Th5:1-3, that "the Day of the Lord" will ARRIVE "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... OF the beginning of BPs [PLURAL] that JESUS HAD SPELLED OUT!
(the INITIAL "birth PANG" OF those, IS "SEAL #1 at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS" time-period)
On another point, the wording that Matt24:22 speaks to ("THOSE days"), refers SPECIFICALLY TO (and only of) the "days" which FOLLOW AFTER the "AOD" [MID-]point in the chronology (i.e. "GREAT tribulation," that is, THE SECOND HALF"--3.5yrs)... THOSE days will be the ones (being spoken of in this verse) are what are said will be "G2856'd"... and we know THAT AMOUNT has NOT BEEN CHANGED whatsoever! It speaks NOTHING of the "days" [the FIRST HALF] which PRECEDED them... when vv.4-14 pertain-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/24/22/p0/t_conc_953022 notice the word "G1565 THOSE [days]"... pointing back to the wording "then shall be GREAT tribulation" [THAT time-period, alone, is what the word under present discussion pertains to... NOT "original 7 yrs" now being "G2856'd" TO 3.5y... NO... That is to MISAPPLY THE WORD!!)
So Rev13 is the same time-slot as both Matt24:15,21 [/2Th2:4b / Dan9:27b / (and around) Dan12:11... etc],
...but that's not the BEGINNING OF the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN; Rv1:1] time-period [per Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1], which will have started way back at SEAL #1 [/ Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 - "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"--2Th2:9a / Dan11:36 / Dan9:27a "For ONE WEEK [7 YRS!]"]...
... and this is PROVEN by what Paul states in 1Th5:1-3, that "the Day of the Lord" will ARRIVE "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... OF the beginning of BPs [PLURAL] that JESUS HAD SPELLED OUT!
(the INITIAL "birth PANG" OF those, IS "SEAL #1 at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS" time-period)
On another point, the wording that Matt24:22 speaks to ("THOSE days"), refers SPECIFICALLY TO (and only of) the "days" which FOLLOW AFTER the "AOD" [MID-]point in the chronology (i.e. "GREAT tribulation," that is, THE SECOND HALF"--3.5yrs)... THOSE days will be the ones (being spoken of in this verse) are what are said will be "G2856'd"... and we know THAT AMOUNT has NOT BEEN CHANGED whatsoever! It speaks NOTHING of the "days" [the FIRST HALF] which PRECEDED them... when vv.4-14 pertain-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/24/22/p0/t_conc_953022 notice the word "G1565 THOSE [days]"... pointing back to the wording "then shall be GREAT tribulation" [THAT time-period, alone, is what the word under present discussion pertains to... NOT "original 7 yrs" now being "G2856'd" TO 3.5y... NO... That is to MISAPPLY THE WORD!!)
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That's not what the text of Matthew 24:22 says though.
V.22's "THOSE days" (pointing back to v.21's "GREAT tribulation" which commences at the "AOD" point in time), is what the G2856 verb refers solely to
(and yet it is the SAME duration of time it has always been prophesied to last [see Dan12:1,6-7 [/7:20-25,27]--SAME TIME-FRAME and duration]: 1260 days / 'a time, times, half a time' / 3.5 yrs [/ 42 mos]... NOTHING CHANGES, time-wise!)
[None of that has anything to do with THE FIRST HALF, because Matt24:22 ["THOSE days"] speaks ONLY TO the matter of THE SECOND HALF, that which FOLLOWS the "AOD" point in the chronology, not what come BEFORE IT]
V.22's "THOSE days" (pointing back to v.21's "GREAT tribulation" which commences at the "AOD" point in time), is what the G2856 verb refers solely to
(and yet it is the SAME duration of time it has always been prophesied to last [see Dan12:1,6-7 [/7:20-25,27]--SAME TIME-FRAME and duration]: 1260 days / 'a time, times, half a time' / 3.5 yrs [/ 42 mos]... NOTHING CHANGES, time-wise!)
[None of that has anything to do with THE FIRST HALF, because Matt24:22 ["THOSE days"] speaks ONLY TO the matter of THE SECOND HALF, that which FOLLOWS the "AOD" point in the chronology, not what come BEFORE IT]
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What you are saying is misleading, because Jesus' words in Matthew 24:22 refers ONLY TO the time-period FOLLOWING the "AOD" (they are told to "FLEE" when they "SEE" it), vv.15,21.
That is the ONLY time-period of which the "G2856 koloboō [verb]" word He uses in v.22 pertains.
You are trying to BROADEN its application to be referring to the entire "7 year" period, but Jesus did not apply this word to that [broader-time-frame] whatsoever.
("THOSE days" [to which the verb "G2856" SOLELY PERTAINS] = ONLY THE TIME-PERIOD THAT FOLLOWS the AOD point in the chronology [from v.15,21 on...])
That is the ONLY time-period of which the "G2856 koloboō [verb]" word He uses in v.22 pertains.
You are trying to BROADEN its application to be referring to the entire "7 year" period, but Jesus did not apply this word to that [broader-time-frame] whatsoever.
("THOSE days" [to which the verb "G2856" SOLELY PERTAINS] = ONLY THE TIME-PERIOD THAT FOLLOWS the AOD point in the chronology [from v.15,21 on...])
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So you are saying that you DISAGREE that Jesus' words in VERSE 22 refer to what He was speaking of in v.21 (the period of time that STARTS with v.15's circumstances)?? :
Mat 24:15
¶ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand [/standing] in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22
And except those days should be shortened [G2856], there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened [G2856].
"THOSE days" (v.22), and the VERB "G2856" in the same verse, refer ONLY to that which takes place ONCE THE "AOD" takes place... It does NOT reference ANY TIME PRIOR to that point. And there are "1260 days / 3.5 yrs / 42 mos" FROM the point in time of THAT. Jesus, HERE, where He uses [and applies] this verb "G2856," is NOT AT ALL referencing what takes place PRIOR TO the "AOD".
Do you AGREE or DISAGREE?
["shortened / curtailed [G2856]" (according to Jesus Himself) ONLY EVER spoke to the SECOND HALF / 3.5 YRS / what FOLLOWS the "AOD" point in the chronology--THAT time-frame ONLY is what He's saying will be "shortened / CURTAILED [G2856]" and NO OTHER TIME-FRAME BUT THAT... and yet it hasn't changed from its original length]
"GREAT tribulation" has ONLY EVER referred to the LAST 3.5 yrs leading up to His Second Coming to the earth Rev19! (It has NEVER referred to the entire "7 yr" period!)
Mat 24:15
¶ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand [/standing] in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22
And except those days should be shortened [G2856], there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened [G2856].
"THOSE days" (v.22), and the VERB "G2856" in the same verse, refer ONLY to that which takes place ONCE THE "AOD" takes place... It does NOT reference ANY TIME PRIOR to that point. And there are "1260 days / 3.5 yrs / 42 mos" FROM the point in time of THAT. Jesus, HERE, where He uses [and applies] this verb "G2856," is NOT AT ALL referencing what takes place PRIOR TO the "AOD".
Do you AGREE or DISAGREE?
["shortened / curtailed [G2856]" (according to Jesus Himself) ONLY EVER spoke to the SECOND HALF / 3.5 YRS / what FOLLOWS the "AOD" point in the chronology--THAT time-frame ONLY is what He's saying will be "shortened / CURTAILED [G2856]" and NO OTHER TIME-FRAME BUT THAT... and yet it hasn't changed from its original length]
"GREAT tribulation" has ONLY EVER referred to the LAST 3.5 yrs leading up to His Second Coming to the earth Rev19! (It has NEVER referred to the entire "7 yr" period!)
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