Are all works bad?

Not true.

"Good works" aren't "Bad". They're just not salvific.

Most religious people think ALL works are bad. Actually, the Bible talks about both BAD works and GOOD works. Let’s start with the bad works first.
BAD WORKS
EPHESIANS 2:9- “…not of works lest anyone should BOAST.” What are “boastful” works? I suppose those are works that originate with man—his works—that he thinks up himself. They can’t be from God because Luke 17:10 tells us that when we have done what God commands us to do, we cannot boast about it because we have only done OUR DUTY.
GALATIONS 2:16- says, “ We are not justified by “WORKS OF THE LAW.” These are also bad works, in the sense that they will not save us. The entire book of Galations is mostly talking about these kind of works.
Galations 5:19- another kind of bad works is WORKS OF THE FLESH.

GOOD WORKS
JAMES 2:14:-26- talks about many different kinds of “GOOD WORKS.” Some were charitable, such as giving food and clothes to the needy;but also such GOOD WORKS as obeying the commands of God. Those are called GOOD WORKS and he uses the example of Abraham offering his son Issac as a sacrifice. So obeying God’s commandments are GOOD WORKS that James says we are JUSTIFIED by these kinds of works. It’s very important to see that knowing what KIND OF WORKS makes all the difference in understanding the scriptures properly. Because in one scripture, the Bible says we are NOT justified by “works” (Ephesians 2:9) and in another scripture the Bible says we ARE justified by works ( James 2:24). Someone could easily argue that the Bible contradicts itself. Not so. It is imperative that we understand WHAT KIND OF WORKS are being discussed in each passage.

One other kind of GOOD WORKS that saves us are the WORKS OF GOD in John 6:28-29. Jesus’s disciples said to Him, “ What must we do to WORK. the WORKS OF GOD? This verse clearly tells us that there ARE things we must do. The disciples knew this and Jesus confirms it. Jesus said, “This is the WORK OF GOD THAT YOU BELIEVE in Him whom He sent.” Jesus says that believing is a WORK!! But it is one of the GOOD works that are from God and are part of our salvation. There are other scriptures that tell us that faith is a work—one is in 2 Thess. 1:11–“ THE WORK OF FAITH…”. The crucial question here is…do you believe the Bible? Do you believe what God said? If Faith is a work, and I don’t doubt it because Jesus says that it is, then that makes “repentance a WORK OF GOD, too and “CONFESSION” IS A WORK OF GOD; and “BAPTISM” is a WORK OF GOD. They are “works” of God because they originated with God—not man—and they are all commanded by God. They are HIS works—not man’s works. Isn’t this exactly what Jesus asked the Jews in Mark 11:30? He said, “John’s baptism—was it from heaven or from men?” They would not answer. They knew if they said, “From heaven.” He would say then why haven’t you obeyed it? Well, if John’s baptism was from heaven, how much more the baptism of Jesus the Messiah!

So, to the followers of John Calvin who want to say that we are NOT SAVED BY WORKS—actuallly, we. ARE! We are saved by DOING the WORKS OF GOD. because Jesus said FAITH IS A WORK and we all agree that faith is necessary to be saved. And to those same people who say baptism is a WORK, you are right!! It is a WORK OF GOD—it came from God-not man, and it was commanded by God (Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:48). So when you say. “ we are not saved by works.” It is important that you identify which works. Because ABSOLUTELY we are NOT saved by “boastful works” or “works of the old law of Moses” and certainly not by “works of the flesh. BUT We ARE Isaved by the WORKS OF GOD.

Not true.

"Good works" aren't "Bad". They're just not salvific.

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.


But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;


but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

seems like what we do matters whether it’s good or bad

Acts 15:10-11 Why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.

From Acts 15:20 plus 28

I regret to inform you that you are completely wrong. Baptism does not save anyone just as no other work can save us. Just believe that Jesus is the son of God and that our sins are forgiven through his sacrifice on the cross, nothing more.
Baptism is simply an act that manifests before the eyes of men that we have been reborn and that we have been washed in the blood of the lamb, but it is not a requirement to be saved.

Tell me, was the thief who was next to Jesus at the crucifixion baptized? Not, right?? However, he was saved.

You are supporting your theory based on some verses that you have evidently misinterpreted and if this is a competition of verses, apart from Ephesians 2:8-9 there are about 20 that speak of salvation through faith alone, of which I'm going to mention some to you.

Let's start:

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I regret to inform you that you are completely wrong. Baptism does not save anyone just like any other work cant save us. Just believing that Jesus is the son of God and that our sins were forgiven through his sacrifice on the cross.
Tell me, was the thief who was next to Jesus during the crucifixion baptized? Not right? but nevertheless he was saved.

Baptism is nothing more than an action that represents our rebirth and that we have been washed in the blood of the lamb, it is a manifestation for the eyes of men, not a requirement to be saved.

You support your theory in a few verses that you have evidently misinterpreted, and if this is a competition of verses, apart from verses 2:8-9 there are about 20 that say that salvation is only through faith of which I mentioned some.

Let's start:

John 3:15-16
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

James 5:15
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Acts 16:31
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

1 John 5:4
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

John 3:36
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 5:24
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 20:31
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

And please, please, please, I am going to ask you in a very polite and friendly way, stop mixing me with Calvinists, or Lutherans, or with any other man that has said or said whatever. What they have done or said does not care to me. Unlike the "Papist" Catholics, the only man I adore, follow and believe in is Jesus, I don't care about the rest.

Consider it done. You said, “ There are about 20 that speak of salvation through FAITH ALONE.” Not only does James 2:24 contradict that, but NOT ONE of those scriptures you gave have the word “alone” in them. You see, that’s where the mistake lies. No one argues that we are NOT saved by faith. What makes what you believe not true is ADDING the word “alone.” It’s not in any of those scriptures . That’s what you believe but the Bible does not teach that we are saved by faith alone. There is a HUGE difference between being saved by faith and being saved by faith alone. Not only does God NOT teach that we are saved by faith alone, but God actually teaches AGAINST that in James 2:24. If you hold to that doctrine , you not only are in opposition to James 2:24 but also 1 Peter 3:21 that says we are saved by baptism. God has given you and me the correct answer. It’s in Mark 16:16. “He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.” That is the correct answer—we are saved by BOTH faith and baptism, and it was spoken by Jesus; but you can’t believe what God says here either because of that little word “alone.” If you would just leave that one word out of your doctrine, you could believe what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21, and Mark 16:16. You and I could be in agreement. Because then you would accept what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16. You have placed yourself in A position against God by refusing to believe what God says in those scriptures. The Bible does NOT teach salvation by faith alone. It’s not worth your soul being lost just so you can hang on to a doctrine that is so obviously against what God says.

Can’t you see that this is what Satan does and has been doing since the garden of Eden. Satan just changes “ONE”” word. God said “you will die.” Satan said “You will NOT die.” See? He just ADDED one little word. Now look at those scriptures I just used. GOD says salvation is “ NOT by faith only. James 2:24, Satan cones to you and says salvation IS by faith only.” You have no scripture that says that —which means God did not say that—He couldn’t have because He said just the opposite of that. But just like Eve, people are believing Satan over God.
Here’s another one. GOD said” Baptism saves us.” 1 Peter 3:21. Just like in the garden of Eden, Satan says, “ Baptism does NOT save us.” You have a choice —who are you going to believe? What God says in the Bible or what Satan says ( no scripture)? All of God’s word harmonizes with everything Else in God’s word. James 2:24 and 1 Peter 3:21 harmonizes perfectly with Mark 16:16. And those 3 scriptures harmonize with every verse on faith—all of the ones you have given—as long as you leave the word “alone” or “only” OUT! They are not in what the Holy Spirit has written and Satan is the one who put them there.

The law of Christ which included baptism for the remission of sins did not come into effect until Jesus’s death on the cross. Hebrews 9:16-17 tells us this. The New Testament is called the “last WILL and testament of Jesus Christ.” Colossians 2:14 also tells us that Jesus took that old law away “ nailing it to His cross.” The thief on the cross was never under the law of Christ. He lived under the old Jewish law of the Old Testament. The Jews law did not require baptism for the remission of sins. He may have been baptized by John the Baptist—we do not know; but he was never required to be baptised in the name of Jesus. The baptism of Jesus Christ was not preached until Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost; that’s where the first believers were baptized and the thief had been dead for 50 days by that time. The thief lived and died under the law of Moses. He is not an example for us. No one today can be saved like the thief. Jesus is not here in person to save us as He did the thief. Jesus had not even died on the cross yet when the thief was saved. So he is NOT an example for how people are to be saved today.

Just to clarify, when you talk about baptism that saves, you're not talking about water baptism, are you?


🥗

Consider it done. You said, “ There are about 20 that speak of salvation through FAITH ALONE.” Not only does James 2:24 contradict that, but NOT ONE of those scriptures you gave have the word “alone” in them. You see, that’s where the mistake lies. No one argues that we are NOT saved by faith. What makes what you believe not true is ADDING the word “alone.” It’s not in any of those scriptures . That’s what you believe but the Bible does not teach that we are saved by faith alone. There is a HUGE difference between being saved by faith and being saved by faith alone. Not only does God NOT teach that we are saved by faith alone, but God actually teaches AGAINST that in James 2:24. If you hold to that doctrine , you not only are in opposition to James 2:24 but also 1 Peter 3:21 that says we are saved by baptism. God has given you and me the correct answer. It’s in Mark 16:16. “He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.” That is the correct answer—we are saved by BOTH faith and baptism, and it was spoken by Jesus; but you can’t believe what God says here either because of that little word “alone.” If you would just leave that one word out of your doctrine, you could believe what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21, and Mark 16:16. You and I could be in agreement. Because then you would accept what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16. You have placed yourself in A position against God by refusing to believe what God says in those scriptures. The Bible does NOT teach salvation by faith alone. It’s not worth your soul being lost just so you can hang on to a doctrine that is so obviously against what God says.

Can’t you see that this is what Satan does and has been doing since the garden of Eden. Satan just changes “ONE”” word. God said “you will die.” Satan said “You will NOT die.” See? He just ADDED one little word. Now look at those scriptures I just used. GOD says salvation is “ NOT by faith only. James 2:24, Satan cones to you and says salvation IS by faith only.” You have no scripture that says that —which means God did not say that—He couldn’t have because He said just the opposite of that. But just like Eve, people are believing Satan over God.
Here’s another one. GOD said” Baptism saves us.” 1 Peter 3:21. Just like in the garden of Eden, Satan says, “ Baptism does NOT save us.” You have a choice —who are you going to believe? What God says in the Bible or what Satan says ( no scripture)? All of God’s word harmonizes with everything Else in God’s word. James 2:24 and 1 Peter 3:21 harmonizes perfectly with Mark 16:16. And those 3 scriptures harmonize with every verse on faith—all of the ones you have given—as long as you leave the word “alone” or “only” OUT! They are not in what the Holy Spirit has written and Satan is the one who put them there.

The law of Christ which included baptism for the remission of sins did not come into effect until Jesus’s death on the cross. Hebrews 9:16-17 tells us this. The New Testament is called the “last WILL and testament of Jesus Christ.” Colossians 2:14 also tells us that Jesus took that old law away “ nailing it to His cross.” The thief on the cross was never under the law of Christ. He lived under the old Jewish law of the Old Testament. The Jews law did not require baptism for the remission of sins. He may have been baptized by John the Baptist—we do not know; but he was never required to be baptized in the name of Jesus. The baptism of Jesus Christ was not preached until Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost; that’s where the first believers were baptized, and the thief had been dead for 50 days by that time. The thief lived and died under the law of Moses. He is not an example for us. No one today can be saved like the thief. Jesus is not here in person to save us as He did the thief. Jesus had not even died on the cross yet when the thief was saved. So he is NOT an example for how people are to be saved today.

Just to clarify, when you talk about baptism that saves, you're not talking about water baptism, are you?


Yes. It is the “one” baptism in Ephesians 4. The miraculous baptism of the Holy Spirit only happened twice. Once in Acts 2 and once in Acts 10. That baptism wAs poured out by God on people that were not seeking it. It was all God’s doing. You couldn’t just tell someone to be baptized and they could go out and “GET” Miraculous Holy Spirit baptism.” Miracles were to cease when the Bible was finished being revealed and written down. 1 Cor. 13:9-10. The apostles could give you the HolyvSpirit by laying their hands on people but that didn’t happen to everyone. In Acts 8 we see people being baptized BEFORE they received the Spirut and they received it by the apostles laying their hands on them; so we know that their baptism was water baptism. In Acts 10 Cornelius had already received the Spirit and was commanded to be baptized. That was water baptism. In Acts 8 the Eunuch said see, here is water . Why can’t I be baptized. That was water baptism. In Acts 16 Saul was told to “wash” away his sins. That was water baptism. Since miraculous H. S. Baptism was to cease, the only baptism left was water baptism.


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I'm not going to waste another second arguing with you. You say that I am contradicting the Bible when you are obviously the one doing it. I even gave you the example of the thief, who evidently God allowed and wanted to happen to leave an example of what salvation would be like and through whom and what it would be like from that moment on. The thief did not have the slightest opportunity to be baptized and was saved simply by believing. You keep mentioning that I am denying what a few verses say and that I do not believe what God has said when you are the one who is doing the same with many more verses and examples than the ones you mention. So, according to you, If I am lying in a hospital bed, on the brink of death, and some Christians come and preach to me about Jesus and I accept him as my personal savior, but since I can't get baptized because I'm in bed dying, am I screwed?

Believe and continue believing whatever you want, it doesn't matter to me. I just hope in God and that you are saved by faith and if you want to be baptized 100 times, I think you can do it. This way you will be 100 times sure of your salvation.

Did you even read what I said about the thief on the cross? It doesn’t sound like you did.

Yeap, it is exactly what he is talking about.

Yeap of course I read it. You said that the thief lived under the law and more things...
But for some weird reason he was forgiven by the grace of God through believing in Jesus. That's why I answered the example of the thief for second time and adding the example of the dying guy on the bed of an hospital.
As I said, believe whatever you want to believe. It is your right.

Yea …….he probably should have made up a different baptism in this forum lol

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭

I wonder how people ever came up with baptism happening in water ?

and I wonder how people began insisting “ water “ baptism isn’t baptism

a ect Jesus was baptized with the wrong baptism lol

all his apostles were all baptized with the wrong baptism Philip and Peter both practiced the wrong baptism ….and when the Bible says there’s only one baptism it’s not the baptism Jesus and his apostles partook of and then continued to practice

This place is depressing

I guess the question came because our friend Beckworth is proclaiming that to be baptized is a requirement for saving.

So in other words he heard what Jesus said about salvation?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; ( to believe this is faith that will save )

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hes saying the gospel needs to be heard and believed that person who hears the gospel and what baptism actually means in our doctrine will get baptized in Jesus name for remission of thier sins .

It’s just hearing about it what the Bible actually teaches that it means for us and why we do it as believers that’s what will cause a believer to get baptized.

If as a believer I hear Jesus saying “ go tell everyone all creatures of the world and whoever believes the gospel and is baptized shall be saved “

what matters is that I believe in him that’s telling everyone this that will save us but if I hear and reject what he’s saying it’s not going to go away I still have to answer according to it

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature”

baptism is a gift of mercy through Jesus name and sacrifice for our sins brother it’s not a work or something we should see as a work it’s an act of faith for people who first hear about it and then later accept what’s being said about it

like this where the church is truly born on pentocost . Peter receives the spirit , preaches a wonderfully insightful and edifying sermon of Christ and the gospel by the spirit and then they ask what can they do ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, ( he’s telling the ones the promise is for to get baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins ) and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

( here’s the key to faith ) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: ( of course because Peter just explained baptism in Jesus name is for remission of sins and they accepted it as the truth of course tbey got baptized it’s an action because they believed what they had heard )

and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: ( because Gods spirit was with them ) and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. ( same reason ) praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-43, 47‬ ‭

paul explains baptism through and through what it means when we are buried beneath the water and when we are raised back up from it , that we do it because we believe Jesus died for our sins and rose again for our justification , that it is the New Testament form of circumcision the circumcision of Christ , that when we get baptized we are identified with Jesus Christ as the seed of Abraham making us the hiers of Gods promises as Peter was referring to there as well

baptism hasn’t changed but now we can receive the Holy Ghost baptism is still the action of faith we’re meant to do

now all this being said o don’t believe God would omit someone’s salvstion that believes and repented , because they never got baptized . I’ve just never understood why anyone ever would not do what is taught to do for remission of sins in the name of Jesus who we believe in

it’s always puzzled me the position of anyone who doesn’t want to just get baptized because Jesus said do it for remission of sins in his name

anything God tells us in Christ should be sufficient but the apostles really teach well the whole operation of baptism for remission of sins in Christs name and indeed it’s done in water

That´s way I have given to him the example of the thief next to Jesus during the crucifixion, but as you said before, we can't be sure if he was baptized before or not, but I believe not. I have also given to him the example of the people on the hospital that are about to die and received the gospel of salvation and then, they believed and accepted Jesus as his Savor. Those people are the ones that I can count into the ones that doesn't have the chance to baptized. If someone full of health, that claim to believe in Jesus and don't want to be baptized, well he will have to explain a lot to God when he asks about that matter.

Paul, explaining the gospel in Romans, gives Abraham as an example, who certainly wasn't baptized, nor did he have the law of Moses, which was given hundreds of years later.

and to be sure, Abraham did good works. but God counted Abraham righteous because he believed God, not because he did any of the good things he had done. and God gave Abraham a promise without any prerequisite "ifs"

Paul also gives Jacob and Esau as examples, reminding us that God said Jacob is loved and Esau not loved, that the older would serve the younger, before they had even been born and done any works whatsoever.

these things are Wonderful, yet perhaps easier to understand than they are to accept.