Are all works bad?

Magenta · Sep 12, 2024

I wonder where the OP got their stat... or if they just made it up. Probably the latter.

Ephesians 2:10

Pilgrimshope · Sep 12, 2024

Yeah there are works of Moses law and then works of faith

“Our people must learn to devote themselves to doing what is good, in order to provide for urgent needs and not live unproductive lives.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

there’s the law of Moses which cannot save based on mans works

then there’s the gospel of the kingdom and the word of God that saves

“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We aren’t supposed to be averse to doing good works we aren’t supposed to think the works proscribed by Moses in the law are for us

awe don’t have to sacrifice animals stone one another judge and condemn each other out one another to death pay atoment money to belong to God don’t have to attend sabbath feasts and days of feast ect we don’t need preists on earth interceding for us of sacrofoces to be made we don’t need a temple ect all of the earthly works are gone the reality of God and his word has come

Christian’s are commanded to go do good on the world to all people and to not lie cheat and steal and harm people of course our works need to be good that’s th e point of Jesus suffering and dying to make us right

The modern day “grace “ preachers re changing minds to make people think badly of the truthh like it said so long ago would happen

God has always taught man to do good and not evil every day we

The truth is here

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭

But then someone explains why that’s all untrue that Paul is teaching about judgement and our deeds because they quote a verse plucked from a letter that says grace in it

Pilgrimshope · Sep 12, 2024

Bob-Carabbio said:

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

seems like what we do matters whether it’s good or bad

Bob-Carabbio · Sep 12, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Like I said - good works are all well and good. no problem with doing them at all, and they have a positive effect in Sanctification.

At Jesus judgement of reward they'll be considered when REWARD time comes. (1 Cor 3:13-15)

HOWEVER "Works" ARE NOT SALVIFIC, since salvation (being Born Again) is by FAITH (Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8,9).

Simple as that.

Magenta · Sep 12, 2024

Acts 15:10-11 Why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.

From Acts 15:20 plus 28

Inquisitor · Sep 12, 2024

Magenta said:

Very good, the keyword is "GRACE", which puts an end to this OP.

Beckworth · Sep 13, 2024

Nicolas said:

Consider it done. You said, “ There are about 20 that speak of salvation through FAITH ALONE.” Not only does James 2:24 contradict that, but NOT ONE of those scriptures you gave have the word “alone” in them. You see, that’s where the mistake lies. No one argues that we are NOT saved by faith. What makes what you believe not true is ADDING the word “alone.” It’s not in any of those scriptures . That’s what you believe but the Bible does not teach that we are saved by faith alone. There is a HUGE difference between being saved by faith and being saved by faith alone. Not only does God NOT teach that we are saved by faith alone, but God actually teaches AGAINST that in James 2:24. If you hold to that doctrine , you not only are in opposition to James 2:24 but also 1 Peter 3:21 that says we are saved by baptism. God has given you and me the correct answer. It’s in Mark 16:16. “He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.” That is the correct answer—we are saved by BOTH faith and baptism, and it was spoken by Jesus; but you can’t believe what God says here either because of that little word “alone.” If you would just leave that one word out of your doctrine, you could believe what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21, and Mark 16:16. You and I could be in agreement. Because then you would accept what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16. You have placed yourself in A position against God by refusing to believe what God says in those scriptures. The Bible does NOT teach salvation by faith alone. It’s not worth your soul being lost just so you can hang on to a doctrine that is so obviously against what God says.

Can’t you see that this is what Satan does and has been doing since the garden of Eden. Satan just changes “ONE”” word. God said “you will die.” Satan said “You will NOT die.” See? He just ADDED one little word. Now look at those scriptures I just used. GOD says salvation is “ NOT by faith only. James 2:24, Satan cones to you and says salvation IS by faith only.” You have no scripture that says that —which means God did not say that—He couldn’t have because He said just the opposite of that. But just like Eve, people are believing Satan over God.
Here’s another one. GOD said” Baptism saves us.” 1 Peter 3:21. Just like in the garden of Eden, Satan says, “ Baptism does NOT save us.” You have a choice —who are you going to believe? What God says in the Bible or what Satan says ( no scripture)? All of God’s word harmonizes with everything Else in God’s word. James 2:24 and 1 Peter 3:21 harmonizes perfectly with Mark 16:16. And those 3 scriptures harmonize with every verse on faith—all of the ones you have given—as long as you leave the word “alone” or “only” OUT! They are not in what the Holy Spirit has written and Satan is the one who put them there.

The law of Christ which included baptism for the remission of sins did not come into effect until Jesus’s death on the cross. Hebrews 9:16-17 tells us this. The New Testament is called the “last WILL and testament of Jesus Christ.” Colossians 2:14 also tells us that Jesus took that old law away “ nailing it to His cross.” The thief on the cross was never under the law of Christ. He lived under the old Jewish law of the Old Testament. The Jews law did not require baptism for the remission of sins. He may have been baptized by John the Baptist—we do not know; but he was never required to be baptised in the name of Jesus. The baptism of Jesus Christ was not preached until Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost; that’s where the first believers were baptized and the thief had been dead for 50 days by that time. The thief lived and died under the law of Moses. He is not an example for us. No one today can be saved like the thief. Jesus is not here in person to save us as He did the thief. Jesus had not even died on the cross yet when the thief was saved. So he is NOT an example for how people are to be saved today.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Sep 13, 2024

Beckworth said:

Consider it done. You said, “ There are about 20 that speak of salvation through FAITH ALONE.” Not only does James 2:24 contradict that, but NOT ONE of those scriptures you gave have the word “alone” in them. You see, that’s where the mistake lies. No one argues that we are NOT saved by faith. What makes what you believe not true is ADDING the word “alone.” It’s not in any of those scriptures . That’s what you believe but the Bible does not teach that we are saved by faith alone. There is a HUGE difference between being saved by faith and being saved by faith alone. Not only does God NOT teach that we are saved by faith alone, but God actually teaches AGAINST that in James 2:24. If you hold to that doctrine , you not only are in opposition to James 2:24 but also 1 Peter 3:21 that says we are saved by baptism. God has given you and me the correct answer. It’s in Mark 16:16. “He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.” That is the correct answer—we are saved by BOTH faith and baptism, and it was spoken by Jesus; but you can’t believe what God says here either because of that little word “alone.” If you would just leave that one word out of your doctrine, you could believe what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21, and Mark 16:16. You and I could be in agreement. Because then you would accept what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16. You have placed yourself in A position against God by refusing to believe what God says in those scriptures. The Bible does NOT teach salvation by faith alone. It’s not worth your soul being lost just so you can hang on to a doctrine that is so obviously against what God says.

Can’t you see that this is what Satan does and has been doing since the garden of Eden. Satan just changes “ONE”” word. God said “you will die.” Satan said “You will NOT die.” See? He just ADDED one little word. Now look at those scriptures I just used. GOD says salvation is “ NOT by faith only. James 2:24, Satan cones to you and says salvation IS by faith only.” You have no scripture that says that —which means God did not say that—He couldn’t have because He said just the opposite of that. But just like Eve, people are believing Satan over God.
Here’s another one. GOD said” Baptism saves us.” 1 Peter 3:21. Just like in the garden of Eden, Satan says, “ Baptism does NOT save us.” You have a choice —who are you going to believe? What God says in the Bible or what Satan says ( no scripture)? All of God’s word harmonizes with everything Else in God’s word. James 2:24 and 1 Peter 3:21 harmonizes perfectly with Mark 16:16. And those 3 scriptures harmonize with every verse on faith—all of the ones you have given—as long as you leave the word “alone” or “only” OUT! They are not in what the Holy Spirit has written and Satan is the one who put them there.

The law of Christ which included baptism for the remission of sins did not come into effect until Jesus’s death on the cross. Hebrews 9:16-17 tells us this. The New Testament is called the “last WILL and testament of Jesus Christ.” Colossians 2:14 also tells us that Jesus took that old law away “ nailing it to His cross.” The thief on the cross was never under the law of Christ. He lived under the old Jewish law of the Old Testament. The Jews law did not require baptism for the remission of sins. He may have been baptized by John the Baptist—we do not know; but he was never required to be baptised in the name of Jesus. The baptism of Jesus Christ was not preached until Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost; that’s where the first believers were baptized and the thief had been dead for 50 days by that time. The thief lived and died under the law of Moses. He is not an example for us. No one today can be saved like the thief. Jesus is not here in person to save us as He did the thief. Jesus had not even died on the cross yet when the thief was saved. So he is NOT an example for how people are to be saved today.

Just to clarify, when you talk about baptism that saves, you're not talking about water baptism, are you?

🥗

Nicolas · Sep 13, 2024

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

Yeap, it is exactly what he is talking about.

Nicolas · Sep 13, 2024

Beckworth said:

Consider it done. You said, “ There are about 20 that speak of salvation through FAITH ALONE.” Not only does James 2:24 contradict that, but NOT ONE of those scriptures you gave have the word “alone” in them. You see, that’s where the mistake lies. No one argues that we are NOT saved by faith. What makes what you believe not true is ADDING the word “alone.” It’s not in any of those scriptures . That’s what you believe but the Bible does not teach that we are saved by faith alone. There is a HUGE difference between being saved by faith and being saved by faith alone. Not only does God NOT teach that we are saved by faith alone, but God actually teaches AGAINST that in James 2:24. If you hold to that doctrine , you not only are in opposition to James 2:24 but also 1 Peter 3:21 that says we are saved by baptism. God has given you and me the correct answer. It’s in Mark 16:16. “He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.” That is the correct answer—we are saved by BOTH faith and baptism, and it was spoken by Jesus; but you can’t believe what God says here either because of that little word “alone.” If you would just leave that one word out of your doctrine, you could believe what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21, and Mark 16:16. You and I could be in agreement. Because then you would accept what God says in James 2:24, 1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16. You have placed yourself in A position against God by refusing to believe what God says in those scriptures. The Bible does NOT teach salvation by faith alone. It’s not worth your soul being lost just so you can hang on to a doctrine that is so obviously against what God says.

Can’t you see that this is what Satan does and has been doing since the garden of Eden. Satan just changes “ONE”” word. God said “you will die.” Satan said “You will NOT die.” See? He just ADDED one little word. Now look at those scriptures I just used. GOD says salvation is “ NOT by faith only. James 2:24, Satan cones to you and says salvation IS by faith only.” You have no scripture that says that —which means God did not say that—He couldn’t have because He said just the opposite of that. But just like Eve, people are believing Satan over God.
Here’s another one. GOD said” Baptism saves us.” 1 Peter 3:21. Just like in the garden of Eden, Satan says, “ Baptism does NOT save us.” You have a choice —who are you going to believe? What God says in the Bible or what Satan says ( no scripture)? All of God’s word harmonizes with everything Else in God’s word. James 2:24 and 1 Peter 3:21 harmonizes perfectly with Mark 16:16. And those 3 scriptures harmonize with every verse on faith—all of the ones you have given—as long as you leave the word “alone” or “only” OUT! They are not in what the Holy Spirit has written and Satan is the one who put them there.

The law of Christ which included baptism for the remission of sins did not come into effect until Jesus’s death on the cross. Hebrews 9:16-17 tells us this. The New Testament is called the “last WILL and testament of Jesus Christ.” Colossians 2:14 also tells us that Jesus took that old law away “ nailing it to His cross.” The thief on the cross was never under the law of Christ. He lived under the old Jewish law of the Old Testament. The Jews law did not require baptism for the remission of sins. He may have been baptized by John the Baptist—we do not know; but he was never required to be baptized in the name of Jesus. The baptism of Jesus Christ was not preached until Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost; that’s where the first believers were baptized, and the thief had been dead for 50 days by that time. The thief lived and died under the law of Moses. He is not an example for us. No one today can be saved like the thief. Jesus is not here in person to save us as He did the thief. Jesus had not even died on the cross yet when the thief was saved. So he is NOT an example for how people are to be saved today.

I'm not going to waste another second arguing with you. You say that I am contradicting the Bible when you are obviously the one doing it. I even gave you the example of the thief, who evidently God allowed and wanted to happen to leave an example of what salvation would be like and through whom and what it would be like from that moment on. The thief did not have the slightest opportunity to be baptized and was saved simply by believing. You keep mentioning that I am denying what a few verses say and that I do not believe what God has said when you are the one who is doing the same with many more verses and examples than the ones you mention. So, according to you, If I am lying in a hospital bed, on the brink of death, and some Christians come and preach to me about Jesus and I accept him as my personal savior, but since I can't get baptized because I'm in bed dying, am I screwed?

Believe and continue believing whatever you want, it doesn't matter to me. I just hope in God and that you are saved by faith and if you want to be baptized 100 times, I think you can do it. This way you will be 100 times sure of your salvation.

Beckworth · Sep 13, 2024

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

Just to clarify, when you talk about baptism that saves, you're not talking about water baptism, are you?

Yes. It is the “one” baptism in Ephesians 4. The miraculous baptism of the Holy Spirit only happened twice. Once in Acts 2 and once in Acts 10. That baptism wAs poured out by God on people that were not seeking it. It was all God’s doing. You couldn’t just tell someone to be baptized and they could go out and “GET” Miraculous Holy Spirit baptism.” Miracles were to cease when the Bible was finished being revealed and written down. 1 Cor. 13:9-10. The apostles could give you the HolyvSpirit by laying their hands on people but that didn’t happen to everyone. In Acts 8 we see people being baptized BEFORE they received the Spirut and they received it by the apostles laying their hands on them; so we know that their baptism was water baptism. In Acts 10 Cornelius had already received the Spirit and was commanded to be baptized. That was water baptism. In Acts 8 the Eunuch said see, here is water . Why can’t I be baptized. That was water baptism. In Acts 16 Saul was told to “wash” away his sins. That was water baptism. Since miraculous H. S. Baptism was to cease, the only baptism left was water baptism.

🥗

Beckworth · Sep 13, 2024

Nicolas said:

I'm not going to waste another second arguing with you. You say that I am contradicting the Bible when you are obviously the one doing it. I even gave you the example of the thief, who evidently God allowed and wanted to happen to leave an example of what salvation would be like and through whom and what it would be like from that moment on. The thief did not have the slightest opportunity to be baptized and was saved simply by believing. You keep mentioning that I am denying what a few verses say and that I do not believe what God has said when you are the one who is doing the same with many more verses and examples than the ones you mention. So, according to you, If I am lying in a hospital bed, on the brink of death, and some Christians come and preach to me about Jesus and I accept him as my personal savior, but since I can't get baptized because I'm in bed dying, am I screwed?

Believe and continue believing whatever you want, it doesn't matter to me. I just hope in God and that you are saved by faith and if you want to be baptized 100 times, I think you can do it. This way you will be 100 times sure of your salvation.

Did you even read what I said about the thief on the cross? It doesn’t sound like you did.

Nicolas · Sep 13, 2024

Beckworth said:

Yeap of course I read it. You said that the thief lived under the law and more things...
But for some weird reason he was forgiven by the grace of God through believing in Jesus. That's why I answered the example of the thief for second time and adding the example of the dying guy on the bed of an hospital.
As I said, believe whatever you want to believe. It is your right.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 13, 2024

Nicolas said:

Yea …….he probably should have made up a different baptism in this forum lol

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭

I wonder how people ever came up with baptism happening in water ?

and I wonder how people began insisting “ water “ baptism isn’t baptism

a ect Jesus was baptized with the wrong baptism lol

all his apostles were all baptized with the wrong baptism Philip and Peter both practiced the wrong baptism ….and when the Bible says there’s only one baptism it’s not the baptism Jesus and his apostles partook of and then continued to practice

This place is depressing

Pilgrimshope · Sep 13, 2024

Nicolas said:

The bible doesn’t say the thief wasn’t baptized it suggests that nearly everyone in the region was getting baptized we dont have any reason to say he wasn’t baptized , or that he was

It’s true he wasn’t baptized as he died on the cross but there’s nothing to say he wasn’t baptized before that

“And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We don’t know if he was in that group or not

Nicolas · Sep 13, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Yea …….he probably should have made up a different baptism in this forum lol

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭

I wonder how people ever came up with baptism happening in water ?

and I wonder how people began insisting “ water “ baptism isn’t baptism

a ect Jesus was baptized with the wrong baptism lol

all his apostles were all baptized with the wrong baptism Philip and Peter both practiced the wrong baptism ….and when the Bible says there’s only one baptism it’s not the baptism Jesus and his apostles partook of and then continued to practice

This place is depressing

I guess the question came because our friend Beckworth is proclaiming that to be baptized is a requirement for saving.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 13, 2024

Nicolas said:

So in other words he heard what Jesus said about salvation?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; ( to believe this is faith that will save )

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hes saying the gospel needs to be heard and believed that person who hears the gospel and what baptism actually means in our doctrine will get baptized in Jesus name for remission of thier sins .

It’s just hearing about it what the Bible actually teaches that it means for us and why we do it as believers that’s what will cause a believer to get baptized.

If as a believer I hear Jesus saying “ go tell everyone all creatures of the world and whoever believes the gospel and is baptized shall be saved “

what matters is that I believe in him that’s telling everyone this that will save us but if I hear and reject what he’s saying it’s not going to go away I still have to answer according to it

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature”

baptism is a gift of mercy through Jesus name and sacrifice for our sins brother it’s not a work or something we should see as a work it’s an act of faith for people who first hear about it and then later accept what’s being said about it

like this where the church is truly born on pentocost . Peter receives the spirit , preaches a wonderfully insightful and edifying sermon of Christ and the gospel by the spirit and then they ask what can they do ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, ( he’s telling the ones the promise is for to get baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins ) and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

( here’s the key to faith ) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: ( of course because Peter just explained baptism in Jesus name is for remission of sins and they accepted it as the truth of course tbey got baptized it’s an action because they believed what they had heard )

and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: ( because Gods spirit was with them ) and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. ( same reason ) praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-43, 47‬ ‭

paul explains baptism through and through what it means when we are buried beneath the water and when we are raised back up from it , that we do it because we believe Jesus died for our sins and rose again for our justification , that it is the New Testament form of circumcision the circumcision of Christ , that when we get baptized we are identified with Jesus Christ as the seed of Abraham making us the hiers of Gods promises as Peter was referring to there as well

baptism hasn’t changed but now we can receive the Holy Ghost baptism is still the action of faith we’re meant to do

now all this being said o don’t believe God would omit someone’s salvstion that believes and repented , because they never got baptized . I’ve just never understood why anyone ever would not do what is taught to do for remission of sins in the name of Jesus who we believe in

it’s always puzzled me the position of anyone who doesn’t want to just get baptized because Jesus said do it for remission of sins in his name

anything God tells us in Christ should be sufficient but the apostles really teach well the whole operation of baptism for remission of sins in Christs name and indeed it’s done in water

Nicolas · Sep 13, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

So in other words he heard what Jesus said about salvation?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; ( to believe this is faith that will save )

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hes saying the gospel needs to be heard and believed that person who hears the gospel and what baptism actually means in our doctrine will get baptized in Jesus name for remission of thier sins .

It’s just hearing about it what the Bible actually teaches that it means for us and why we do it as believers that’s what will cause a believer to get baptized.

If as a believer I hear Jesus saying “ go tell everyone all creatures of the world and whoever believes the gospel and is baptized shall be saved “

what matters is that I believe in him that’s telling everyone this that will save us but if I hear and reject what he’s saying it’s not going to go away I still have to answer according to it

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature”

baptism is a gift of mercy through Jesus name and sacrifice for our sins brother it’s not a work or something we should see as a work it’s an act of faith for people who first hear about it and then later accept what’s being said about it

like this where the church is truly born on pentocost . Peter receives the spirit , preaches a wonderfully insightful and edifying sermon of Christ and the gospel by the spirit and then they ask what can they do ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, ( he’s telling the ones the promise is for to get baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins ) and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

( here’s the key to faith ) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: ( of course because Peter just explained baptism in Jesus name is for remission of sins and they accepted it as the truth of course tbey got baptized it’s an action because they believed what they had heard )

and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: ( because Gods spirit was with them ) and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. ( same reason ) praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-43, 47‬ ‭

paul explains baptism through and through what it means when we are buried beneath the water and when we are raised back up from it , that we do it because we believe Jesus died for our sins and rose again for our justification , that it is the New Testament form of circumcision the circumcision of Christ , that when we get baptized we are identified with Jesus Christ as the seed of Abraham making us the hiers of Gods promises as Peter was referring to there as well

baptism hasn’t changed but now we can receive the Holy Ghost baptism is still the action of faith we’re meant to do

now all this being said o don’t believe God would omit someone’s salvstion that believes and repented , because they never got baptized . I’ve just never understood why anyone ever would not do what is taught to do for remission of sins in the name of Jesus who we believe in

it’s always puzzled me the position of anyone who doesn’t want to just get baptized because Jesus said do it for remission of sins in his name

anything God tells us in Christ should be sufficient but the apostles really teach well the whole operation of baptism for remission of sins in Christs name and indeed it’s done in water

That was exactly what I'm trying to explain to him, but with so much less words. Of course is important to be baptized, yeap, of course it is, but is more like a symbolic act or for remision of sins as you explained well and not a requeriment to be save.

Every single one of us have been baptized, in fact, I know people that have been baptized even two or three times.

That´s way I have given to him the example of the thief next to Jesus during the crucifixion, but as you said before, we can't be sure if he was baptized before or not, but I believe not. I have also given to him the example of the people on the hospital that are about to die and received the gospel of salvation and then, they believed and accepted Jesus as his Savor. Those people are the ones that I can count into the ones that doesn't have the chance to baptized. If someone full of health, that claim to believe in Jesus and don't want to be baptized, well he will have to explain a lot to God when he asks about that matter.

posthuman · Sep 14, 2024

Nicolas said:

Paul, explaining the gospel in Romans, gives Abraham as an example, who certainly wasn't baptized, nor did he have the law of Moses, which was given hundreds of years later.

and to be sure, Abraham did good works. but God counted Abraham righteous because he believed God, not because he did any of the good things he had done. and God gave Abraham a promise without any prerequisite "ifs"

Paul also gives Jacob and Esau as examples, reminding us that God said Jacob is loved and Esau not loved, that the older would serve the younger, before they had even been born and done any works whatsoever.

these things are Wonderful, yet perhaps easier to understand than they are to accept.

Magenta · Sep 14, 2024

posthuman said:

Romans 10-13 + Galatians 3:5~ Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you obey the law, or because you hear and believe?

Are all works bad?

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