Loss of salvation???

I dont have a problem with it. I just dont know why you think it is so important or that it somehow changes how we should read it. Jesus also spoke to Samaritans and Romans. Paul wrote letters to Gentiles in Corinth. The Gospel of John was written to Christians. It doesnt mean it doesnt have application or the same meaning to Jews. It seems to me the lessons in these letters often have far-reaching application even if they were addressed to a particular group in a particular era. At least that is why I think these letters were preserved in the canon.

I dont think any of us here are under the impression that any of the OT or NT are letters written directly to 21st century Christians. But, as I have mentioned, when considering the historical context, it is important to not only consider who Jesus was speaking to, but also to whom Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were writing to. They chose those stories and ordered them for a reason and a particular audience.

In any event, I’ve never had an issue with the idea that Jesus was a Jew and was often speaking to Jews living under the Law. The implication you gave was that most Christians and Gentiles just dont get it. You indicated that the texts were either not properly understood by Christians or that Jesus’ words were not applicable to them in ways most Christians think they are.

So, I am just asking if you can provide texts that are misunderstood or wrongly applied by Christians because Jesus’ audience was Jewish and not Gentile. Maybe I am just a little calloused by previous interactions with Messianic Jews and so I am a bit skeptical when these topics come up. From my experience, those who want to highlight lineage and genealogy when it comes to interpreting the Bible usually have the perspective that their Jewishness puts them in a special category in which Scriptures apply differently to them because of God’s special relationship with them in contrast to Gentiles or ordinary Christians. So, I apologize if this was not your intent, but it seemed very odd to me when you started claiming that much of Jesus’ teachings didn’t apply to Christians but only to Jews.

So, I am just asking if you can provide texts that are misunderstood or wrongly applied by Christians because Jesus’ audience was Jewish and not Gentile..

So? Your spiritual function when properly manifested is just like believers had in the times of David had?
They had the same spiritual potentials as in your New Creation function?
No difference?
Some Christians walk as if there were no difference.


Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you,
searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances
to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the
Messiah and the glories that would follow. " 1 Peter 1:10-11


.

Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.

No Christian I know of imagines that their situation before God is the same as those prior to Christ. However, all of those texts are very relevant to us. First, many of these stories are cited as examples for Christians to learn from. Both the author of Hebrews (Hebrews 3-4) and Paul (speaking to Christians in Corinth in 1 Corinthians 10) reflect back on the Israelites wandering in the wilderness as examples to how believers should live (or not live) today. Paul writes to the church in Rome and cites passages referring to Isaac and Ishmael, Pharoah, and the prophets regarding God’s plan for saving believers in Romans 9-11. Both Jesus and Peter (2 Peter 3) use the flood as an illustration of what the Lord’s Second Coming will be like for the unbelieving/unexpectant. In fact, Peter goes so far as to say, regarding the Old Testament Scriptures in 1 Peter 1:10-12…



So, according to Peter, the prophets of old longed to see God’s salvation and how it would come about. The things they wrote dont have their ultimate purpose in their own writings or times, but for Christians today. As Peter says, “they were not serving themselves but YOU, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven…” The things the prophets didn’t fully see about God’s plan of redemption were ultimately about validating and confirming God’s ultimate plan in Christ that we can now see clearly when they only saw partially.

I can appreciate the fact that, when Jesus preached his sermon on the mount, that he was speaking to Jews who were living under Law. He corrects the Pharisees poor application of the Law by showing what true righteousness looks like. While I am not a Pharisee or a 1st century Jew, that doesnt mean that the teachings in the Sermon on the Mount such as, “love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you” or “anyone who lusts in his heart has already committed adultery“ or that those who pray to be heard and applauded by men have already received their reward and we should “pray in secret” should not be applied to my life as a Christian. I dont have to be a Pharisee or a 1st century Jew to understand the heart of God’s Law and what God desires in these instructions. So while the early Jews and Pharisees may have heard and understood these concepts somewhat differently from someone who lives post-resurrection, it doesnt make the message less true. If anything, I would say the Christian has a FULLER picture of what Christ was saying in comparison to those who didn’t fully grasp that he was the incarnate God who would die for the sins of the world and be raised.

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

If they could lose it?
Then there never was salvation.

If we could lose our salvation?

It would be like God is now renting us with an option to buy.




.

amen

“If we willingly keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

That was written to whom? Hebrews.

What were these Hebrews doing?
They were rejecting the Cross of the Gospel.. And, were insisting upon the animal blood sacrifices in the Temple.

They were told the truth about the atonement of the Cross. They had received knowledge of the truth.
They were told that there were no more animal sacrifices for sins (animal blood in Temple) left to please God,
as they had done prior to Jesus dying for their sins.

Animal sacrifices that they insisted upon, and continued doing stubbornly while rejecting the Cross of Christ....

They never became born again.

“That was written to whom? Hebrews.”

Man this place is like spinning wheels in mud …..

Spinning wheels because some are failing to see the context and the reason for the book of Hebrew being written.

It was written to the Church in Jerusalem in 67 AD as a warning before Jerusalem was to be destroyed in 70AD.
God's judgment was coming because of the failure of too many Jewish believers failing to live according to NT truth.

Just look at the Exodus. How God was killing off Jews in the wilderness for their failure to adjust His requirements.

All it would take to stop spinning wheels would be to humble ourselves to be willing to learn from someone who
who is gifted to teach the historical realities that were taking place in the Jerusalem church, and could teach from
the original languages the specific meaning for some key phrases to give insight.

It really bothers those who believe they already understand all they need to know... And, if you think any differently,
its you who must be wrong. C'est la vie!

Why do you believe judgment was due to unbelief and not failure to live up to the covenant that was soon to be dissolved?

Spinning wheels because some are failing to see the context and the reason for the book of Hebrew being written.

It was written to the Church in Jerusalem in 67 AD as a warning before Jerusalem was to be destroyed in 70AD.
God's judgment was coming because of the failure of too many Jewish believers failing to live according to NT truth.

Just look at the Exodus. How God was killing off Jews in the wilderness for their failure to adjust His requirements.

All it would take to stop spinning wheels would be to humble ourselves to be willing to learn from someone who
who is gifted to teach the historical realities that were taking place in the Jerusalem church, and could teach from
the original languages the specific meaning for some key phrases to give insight.

It really bothers those who believe they already understand all they need to know... And, if you think any differently,
its you who must be wrong. C'est la vie!

Why do you believe judgment was due to unbelief and not failure to live up to the covenant that was soon to be dissolved?

When Jesus uttered the Words - "It is Finished!" the covenant became dissolved...
And, was soon to be clarified as soon as Pentecost heralded in believers becoming a new creation in Christ.


On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as
Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.
Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified."

John 7:37-39

“Spinning wheels because some are failing to see the context and the reason for the book of Hebrew being written.”

just people trying to make a difference between Hebrews and gentiles still as if it makes any difference to God in the new covenant

everything Jesus said was to Hebrews all of the apostles were Hebrews the original church was Hebrews who converted from Judaism thier doctrine in the New Testament is everyone’s doctrine in Christ

If it applies to a hebrew in Christ it applies to a gentile in Christ repentance from sin is something everyone has to do it doesn’t matter who he said it to that’s what I meant by spinning wheels in mud

If we remove everything said to Hebrews it removes the Old Testament and the four gospels ,

in other words everything the epistles are talking about lol

the Bible written by Hebrews for everyone the only thing that’s not for gentiles is the old covenant that’s not our covenant law or prophecy we learn about Jesus from it but we have a new covenant the gospel and new prophecy from tbe apostles and nt prophets .

This message is for anyone it doesn’t make any difference tbat it’a wrotten to Hebrews and by the way ( I’m not arguing your reason for why it was written at all seems pretty accurate ) I’m saying it doesn’t matter it’s still for everyone and applies because it’s revelation about the New Testament kingdom and the things in heaven it’s much much more than what your saying there

It speaks of heavenly things new things gods kingdom our high priest in heaven our apostle our holy city and promised land it has a whole chapter teaching us of faith and reveals clearly the removal of the old covenant as well as the institution of the new through its mediator Jesus Christ and his word and blood

Ot doesn’t matter if a persons Hebrew or gentile if we keep sinning willfully not repenting it’s gonna end badly for us anything a Hebrew can learn about the New Testament a gentile can also and it’s true for both

I’m sorry friend I’m pretty much at my limit with this place I’ll let you be in peace

Not sure how this addresses my question, but it does raise others. But before those, can you tie what you wrote to my original question?

Please .. I have read many things here. I also am active in various different forums and have several things on my mind.
Please? Present the original question, so I can be sure that I do not mistakenly think it was something else.

And, I may not have been trying to answer you original question, but rather a new question that had come to the surface.
Which causes me to wonder why it must relate to your original question anyway.

Hebrews was written to a specific people. A people who were causing a problem that gentiles could not trip themselves up with.
Gentiles could not enter the Temple in Jerusalem to present to a Levite priest a lamb to be offered on the alter to atone for his sins.

Now, what was going on in Jerusalem can be used to teach Gentiles principles of truth that they would benefit from learning and understanding. Christ was to be found in what the animal sacrifices represented. That is why the Book of Hebrews can benefit all.

“Spinning wheels because some are failing to see the context and the reason for the book of Hebrew being written.”

just people trying to make a difference between Hebrews and gentiles still as if it makes any difference to God in the new covenant

everything Jesus said was to Hebrews all of the apostles were Hebrews the original church was Hebrews who converted from Judaism thier doctrine in the New Testament is everyone’s doctrine in Christ

If it applies to a hebrew in Christ it applies to a gentile in Christ repentance from sin is something everyone has to do it doesn’t matter who he said it to that’s what I meant by spinning wheels in mud

If we remove everything said to Hebrews it removes the Old Testament and the four gospels ,

in other words everything the epistles are talking about lol

the Bible written by Hebrews for everyone the only thing that’s not for gentiles is the old covenant that’s not our covenant law or prophecy we learn about Jesus from it but we have a new covenant the gospel and new prophecy from tbe apostles and nt prophets .

This message is for anyone it doesn’t make any difference tbat it’a wrotten to Hebrews and by the way ( I’m not arguing your reason for why it was written at all seems pretty accurate ) I’m saying it doesn’t matter it’s still for everyone and applies because it’s revelation about the New Testament kingdom and the things in heaven it’s much much more than what your saying there

It speaks of heavenly things new things gods kingdom our high priest in heaven our apostle our holy city and promised land it has a whole chapter teaching us of faith and reveals clearly the removal of the old covenant as well as the institution of the new through its mediator Jesus Christ and his word and blood

Ot doesn’t matter if a persons Hebrew or gentile if we keep sinning willfully not repenting it’s gonna end badly for us anything a Hebrew can learn about the New Testament a gentile can also and it’s true for both

I’m sorry friend I’m pretty much at my limit with this place I’ll let you be in peace

Sure. You appeared to be saying that the reason God was bringing judgment upon the Jewish nation was because of unbelief. So I asked why is this the cause of the judgment and not the failure of the Jews to keep the terms of the covenant that would shortly end.