Stars, Dust & Sand

Don't you see that Jesus says He is distinct from the Father and one with Him at the same time. He identifies Himself as both distinct from the Father even as He says they are one. He does the same with the Spirit. When He is telling the disciples He will be leaving, Jesus tells them He will send them another just like Him, but not Him. Someone who is exactly like Him but distinct from Him. He appears to be saying They are exactly alike, yet distinct from one another.

Notice that only happens when Jesus is their brother at his baptism , his transfiguration . It’s jesusboresence that’s why they heard the voice from heaven and saw the heavenly spirit light upon him he’s the promised annointed one

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was

manifest in the flesh, ( Jesus messiah ) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world,

received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God was manifest in the flesh

ado you see what I’m saying ? Jesus is the part of the plan where God the father would reveal himself and eternal life to mankind’s salvation. It was foreknown by him when he created everything in the beginning.

it’s just the next stage of the plan he’d been foretelling all along he would be born a son of man to intercede and redeem us and finally out the spirit of the son who was made flesh in our hearts making us his sons and daughters

a remember the promise in the ot ? “I will give you a good heart and out my spirit in you and cause you to turn and keep my ways ? “

the revelation of Jesus in the gospel father in heaven , son who came to earth to save us , and holy ghost in us only in and through himself is how God keeps that promise.

But it’s always him just a different aspect of himself bieng shown like the transfiguration he o my showed the spiritual glorification to select few three and then later james was killed and Paul also saw his glory on the road to Damascus

everyone else only saw the man Jesus without his glory on the Mount . Gods able to show himself in Christ , be with us personally by his spirit , and the whole time he’s the king of heaven and eeeth on his throne the creator of all thkngs and also the redeemer of those same things and people he created

“Don't you see that Jesus says He is distinct from the Father and one with Him at the same time.”

Yes I understand that Jesus , when he was born on earth a man worshipped God in order to be perfect and fulfill the requirements of the law. And that’s a requirement of his plan of salvation for us because we needed a high priest it’s him. He became a man

Part of his plan all along was to become flesh and blood and redeem mankind



…..
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

….. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭

I guess I'm just having trouble explaining what I'm meaning. Thanks for hanging in there with me.

Ah, John 1:1, the rallying point of Trinitarians. But in defense of the non-Trinitarian reading of this verse, let me quote from The Bible Translator, a periodical sent to Trinitarian scholars:
“If the translation were a matter of substituting words, a pos sible translation . . . would be, ‘The Word was a god.’ As a word for-word translation it cannot be faulted, and to pagan Greeks who heard early Christian language, Theos en o Logos, might have seemed a perfectly sensible statement. . . . The reason why it is unacceptable is that it runs counter to the current of Johannine thought, and indeed of Christian thought as a whole." <The Bible Translator, Vol. 28, No. 1, Jan. 1977>

Please note their observation that, as a word-for-word translation, “it cannot be faulted.” As a matter of fact, in Acts 12:22 (Herod’s voice is a god’s voice) and Acts 28:6 (Paul is called a god), the translators supplied the article “a” to the word theos in both instances. They just happen to think this would be contrary to John’s thought in John 1:1. That is a very subjective conclusion.

John 1:1, 2 reads: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [ton, the] God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with [ton, the] God.” A word-for-word Greek rendering of John 1:1, 2 is: “In [a] beginning [arche] was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and [a] God was the Word. This was in [a] begin ning with the God.” Trinitarians tried to level the field by leaving out the article (ton) “the.” In the King James, as in many other transla tions, all references to God are equal to the English reader. You do not get the contrast between the emphasized God spoken of twice and the unemphasized God referring to the Logos.

Yet consider how later in this chapter (John 1:18), in the same context, a clear distinction is drawn between these Gods apart from mere grammatical emphasis: “No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten god, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” (New American Standard Bible, Marshall Interlinear, etc.) 13 THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST Clearly, there is a “begotten God” and a begetter “God.” Hence, John 1:1 must be understood in a manner that harmonizes with this verse.

Did you notice the verse I cited? 1 Corinthians, referring to the resurrection of the Church... pay attention.

Yea I feel the same as if I haven’t explained well beother but there’s no harm or foul .

the difference is the way we’re looking at it


“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭

The word is made flesh ( thebut remember the word is one with the father and Holy Ghost.

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬



your saying there are three seperate entities here

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬
“The divine persons are really distinct from one another.”

“If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: ( titles )teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one person who holds all the fullness of the godhead which is not the form of a created person with a declared name given to them. the one name of the Father , the Son and the Holy Ghost which everyone was baptized into

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:5‬ ‭KJV‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

My point is

“There is one body, ( Christs )

and one Spirit, ( Christs )

even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;( the call of the gospel of Jesus Christ )

one Lord, ( Jesus , the christ is Lord )

one faith, ( our faith needs to be in Christ )

one baptism, ( we get baptized into christs name for remission of sins )

one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭

God is one and his name is Jesus. The Holy Spirit , Gods spirit , the spirit of Christ is one spirit people just say it differently but Jesus is where God almighty has stepped out into full view so everyone can know him personally it’s not a seperwte or dofferent person or entity the Bible is clear God is singular and has interacted with mankind in three distinct ways.

the Father in heaven , the son who came to earth and offered us eternal salvation and life and the holy spirit of Jesus the man who lived a perfect life which is Gods spirit in man.

through this process God can be with and dwell within each person who believes in him revealed to us in the gospel by his eternal living spirit it’s an extension of God in heaven reaching into this corrupted world in the form of a man in order to fill us with his spirit who believe

Gods redemption plan fornus is the trinity doctrine

“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father,( he is in the father )

and ye in me, ( we are in his body the son )

and I in you.”( his spirit is in us )
‭‭John‬ ‭14:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s him and his plan of redemption through the manifestation of Jesus Christ the son of God

did you notice the context of our discussion was the Trinity?

If you read Genesis chapter one :

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.



John Chapter One:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


God and His Spirit were both present in the Creation account found in Genesis chapter one. I did not write that, and I am not saying that Genesis chapter one states that.

The context of Hovering means to be present or preparing to do something. In this case, we see God Said, and The Spirit of God was doing something before that. The Hebrew for God here is 'ĕlōhîm is (plural), for the Spirt of God is rûaḥ Spirit, wind or Mind.

Two distinct descriptions.

Genesis 1 doesn't say in the beginning that the word John did not lie. and the Word was with GOD in addition to. and the word was GOD the same as. simple math.

GOd said HIS word Spoken was the very expression of GOD who is the Son who is Eternal and was there as John chapter one states. The Hoy Spirit was there as Genesis chapter one says

God, Son, and Holy Spirit = 3 yet are one. When Jesu was Baptized if you read all the Gospel accounts

John 1:32
32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.

Matthew 3:16-17

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”


We have Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Voice from Heaven speaking three distinct personifications

The word eternal in Context to God is without a beginning or an end. If we look at what God has said and the names that describe his Nature, we have some understanding that God is and has always been; there is no beginning with GOD And the Son is also Eternal

Yes he did, well except for that part highlighted in red which I take is your prophesy of scripture. Since it is written to believe all things, then I take it that you know the name of each personage since each personage has a name according to scriptures. However, the Father, Son and Spirit are personages not titles.

So is Emmanuel his title or his name?

I agree, the Spirit and the Word and the Holy Ghost are one living entity, the only begotten of the eternal One.

While the scriptures often record that Jesus would say to those who believed on him that blessings would follow, I think John 12:44 sums it up.

["Pilgrimshope, post: 5350901, member: 300996"]Gods redemption plan fornus is the trinity doctrine[/QUOTE]

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)[/QUOTE]

“that part highlighted in red which I take is your prophesy of scripture. “

no it’s language of your name is Jim I dont say “ the Jim “ if your name is “ Jim “ I call you “ Jim “

“the” doesn’t preface a name , it prefaces a title or object or place ect

a name has no preface it makes a co pretend statement in itself

“ Jesus “ is a name

“ the Christ “ is a title

“ the messiah “ is a title

“The mighty God “ is a title

“The everlasting Father “is a title.

“the prince of peace” a title

even if you remove “ The “ and say “ father “ or “son “ neither is a name both are titles of who the person is to you in respect to the relationship of a father and a son titles not names which of course “ the Holy Ghost “ isn’t zgods name either we know his one name because of the Gospel

“So is Emmanuel his title or his name? “

“ Emmanuel “ means God with us it’s a description of who the messiah , named Jesus is

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God with us “ isn’t a name either Jesus is his name. Look at this here notice it’s talking about one man , but it’s giving him all these titles saying “ thisnis who he will be when he is born”

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: ( one man is the subject ) and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful,
Counsellor.
The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Brother I’m not great at communicating anymore. What I’m saying is the Bible teaches us that all that God is his fullness is found and made known in the Lord Jesus Christ

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”( not they are three but all three of these are one )
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and tbat his spirit is the holy spirit.

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because we believe his name

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s only the one God and one name and spirit declared is all I’m saying

“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods name is above all

“He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The one God created everything

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Name of Jesus , spirit of Jesus

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:48‬ ‭

“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:3‬ ‭


The jesus ? …. No because that’s a name not a title.

The absence of the Greek article is not equivalent to the English word "a." Sorry!

John 1:1 does not give the entire picture of the Trinity: It just tells us clearly that Jesus (the Word) was in the beginning and was God.

It tells you what it tells you, it shows a pretty clear image of the one who is the image of the eternal God.

Once you glorify Jesus then the picture will fully develop.

Do you see Elohim is plural, meaning Gods, representing Elohim in Genesis 1 are two the light and the word, that are God, Like man is the kind, the male and the female are the genders of the kind, The light is a Spirit as the word is a Spirit. . (Ref: John 6:46)

Now look what happens in Genesis 2, no longer is Elohim represented as plural, but now I am perceiving that the light and the word are joined together as one Spirit, the Holy Ghost,,who is the image of the eternal God.

Recall what is written,
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. John 5:19

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:24

Why would the first biological man say his father and mother, being neither born of flesh nor blood, nor of the will of man but of God.

Then why use it at all? And only in certain areas and not in others?