Stars, Dust & Sand

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#81
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
113
#81
RR said:
aah ... the old "it's a mystery" just accept it. Nah
Click to expand...
correct it is a Mystery amen, yet one can say Jesus is all three and has modes or three manifestations of Jesus.

Yes, indeed, a Mystery; however, God the Father is seen in the word of God. The Father Acknowledges the Son, and the Son acknowledges the Spirit. We see this in the word of God. Jesus Acknowledges the Father. All are God yet one. It is a Mystery because human beings can't fully understand all there is to know About God's Divine Nature. limitation.
 
RR

RR

Active member
#82
Mar 13, 2022
140
41
28
Indiana
#82
CS1 said:
correct it is a Mystery amen, yet one can say Jesus is all three and has modes or three manifestations of Jesus.

Yes, indeed, a Mystery; however, God the Father is seen in the word of God. The Father Acknowledges the Son, and the Son acknowledges the Spirit. We see this in the word of God. Jesus Acknowledges the Father. All are God yet one. It is a Mystery because human beings can't fully understand all there is to know About God's Divine Nature. limitation.
Click to expand...
There are a few MYSTERIES mentioned in scriptures
Mystery of the Kingdom - Mark 4:11
The blindness of Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles - Romans 11:25
The mystery of the resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:51
The Mystery of the Gospel of Christ - Ephesians 3
The Mystery of the Church - Ephesians 5:32
The mystery of Revelation - Revelation 3

Hmmm ... no mystery of a triune god.
 
RR

RR

Active member
#83
Mar 13, 2022
140
41
28
Indiana
#83
bluto said:
The Bible says Adam and Eve were created perfect

They were created perfect and with free will. It was not until they disobeyed God they became sinners which means they were not good. How long after they were created sinless until they disobeyed God is unknown.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point, they were created perfect, sinless, until they sinned and were no longer perfect.
 
RR

RR

Active member
#84
Mar 13, 2022
140
41
28
Indiana
#84
HealthAndHappiness said:
I don't know what Bible you use, but the King James Bible answers your question in the very first chapter.
To repeat Magenta's reference.
What is the issue sir?

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Click to expand...
And I'll ask YOU the same question I asked Magenta.

Adam and Eve were created in the Garden of Eden. They were without sin. Because of that, they were perfect and flawless. If we presume they weren't perfect, then we have to see that God created them with imperfections. If God created them as imperfect, wouldn't that mean that by creating us this way he caused us to sin? Being omniscient, he knew full well that if he created us to sin then we would sin. Therefore wouldn't his act of creation be the cause of the sin? If he created us to sin, can God be held accountable for this sin?
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#85
Jul 7, 2022
10,221
4,283
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#85
RR said:
And I'll ask YOU the same question I asked Magenta.

Adam and Eve were created in the Garden of Eden. They were without sin. Because of that, they were perfect and flawless. If we presume they weren't perfect, then we have to see that God created them with imperfections. If God created them as imperfect, wouldn't that mean that by creating us this way he caused us to sin? Being omniscient, he knew full well that if he created us to sin then we would sin. Therefore wouldn't his act of creation be the cause of the sin? If he created us to sin, can God be held accountable for this sin?
Click to expand...
Of course they were good and perfect.
They chose to sin, just as you and I do sir.

For the wages of sin is death.

God is righteous.

RR said:
Okay, can you show me a verse that say Adam and Eve were created "good"?
Click to expand...
You don't have to read far to find your answer.

They ceased to be good or perfect when they sinned.

Here's the practical dilemma.
How are you getting to heaven when you die?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#86
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
113
#86
RR said:
There are a few MYSTERIES mentioned in scriptures
Mystery of the Kingdom - Mark 4:11
The blindness of Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles - Romans 11:25
The mystery of the resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:51
The Mystery of the Gospel of Christ - Ephesians 3
The Mystery of the Church - Ephesians 5:32
The mystery of Revelation - Revelation 3

Hmmm ... no mystery of a triune god.
Click to expand...
So, you know all there is to God and his Divine Nature? Ok, what does HE look LIKE? Assuming you have seen him.

Let's put one more Mystery given to John by the Holy Spirit, which he recorded in scripture that you missed.

1john 3:2
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

That is A MYSTERY that we will not know until we have seen HIM.

1Corthians 13:12

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
This, too, is a Mystery.

But you know all, please share.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#87
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
113
#87
RR said:
There are a few MYSTERIES mentioned in scriptures
Mystery of the Kingdom - Mark 4:11
The blindness of Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles - Romans 11:25
The mystery of the resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:51
The Mystery of the Gospel of Christ - Ephesians 3
The Mystery of the Church - Ephesians 5:32
The mystery of Revelation - Revelation 3

Hmmm ... no mystery of a triune god.
Click to expand...
You can see the Father without the Son. You can't know the Son without the Holy Spirit leading you. Yet you have nor seen any of them, but there work is clearly seen John 3:8

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
 
RR

RR

Active member
#88
Mar 13, 2022
140
41
28
Indiana
#88
CS1 said:
You can see the Father without the Son. You can't know the Son without the Holy Spirit leading you. Yet you have nor seen any of them, but there work is clearly seen John 3:8

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Click to expand...
I know the Father, because the Son drew me to him via holy Spirit.
 
RR

RR

Active member
#89
Mar 13, 2022
140
41
28
Indiana
#89
CS1 said:
So, you know all there is to God and his Divine Nature? Ok, what does HE look LIKE? Assuming you have seen him.
Click to expand...
"No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son— the One who is at the Father’s side— He has revealed Him." - John 1:18


CS1 said:
Let's put one more Mystery given to John by the Holy Spirit, which he recorded in scripture that you missed.

1john 3:2
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

That is A MYSTERY that we will not know until we have seen HIM.

1Corthians 13:12

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
This, too, is a Mystery.
Click to expand...
That would fall under the "mystery of the resurrection" when we are raised in the spirit.
 
U

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
#90
Jul 28, 2017
907
141
43
#90
RR said:
Angels aren't men
Click to expand...
In the OT Book of Judges, when the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman and said unto her, For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God and the angel of the LORD appeared unto the husband who asked the man if he was the one who spoke to his wife, the angel of the LORD said, I am."

So why aren't angels men?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#91
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
113
#91
RR said:
I know the Father, because the Son drew me to him via holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
You don't know ALL, be arrogant all you want.
 
SaysWhat

SaysWhat

Active member
#92
Jan 17, 2024
206
38
28
#92
RR said:
Adam and Eve were created in the Garden of Eden.
Click to expand...
Eve could be debated but Adam was definitely not created in the Garden, he was placed there.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#93
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,193
113
#93
RR said:
There are a few MYSTERIES mentioned in scriptures
Mystery of the Kingdom - Mark 4:11 // The blindness of Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles - Romans 11:25
The mystery of the resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:51 // The Mystery of the Gospel of Christ - Ephesians 3
The Mystery of the Church - Ephesians 5:32 // The mystery of Revelation - Revelation 3

Hmmm ... no mystery of a triune god.
Click to expand...

1 Timothy 3:16
:)
 
U

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
#96
Jul 28, 2017
907
141
43
#96
SaysWhat said:
Eve could be debated but Adam was definitely not created in the Garden, he was placed there.
Click to expand...
Let's see, in Genesis 2:8 it reads "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed." Verse 9 continues with, "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

However, in Genesis 1:12, it reads, "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good." Verse 12 continues with "And the evening and the morning were the third day."

So in Genesis 2, the flesh of man, whom the LORD God placed in his nostrils the breath of life was formed from the dust of the ground, was made before the any tree came forth from the ground. Whereas, in Genesis 1, God created man, male and female after the earth had brought forth every tree from the ground as inferred in Genesis 1:29 where it is written, "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed;..."

So if you definitely know that Adam was not created in the garden of Eden, then you must definitely know where the garden of Eden is, pray tell.
 
SaysWhat

SaysWhat

Active member
#97
Jan 17, 2024
206
38
28
#97
UnoiAmarah said:
So if you definitely know that Adam was not created in the garden of Eden, then you must definitely know where the garden of Eden is, pray tell.
Click to expand...
There was one river that flowed from the garden and split into four rivers. The one from the garden is lost to time. The exact location of where to garden was isn't known.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#98
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
113
#98
RR said:
"No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son— the One who is at the Father’s side— He has revealed Him." - John 1:18




That would fall under the "mystery of the resurrection" when we are raised in the spirit.
Click to expand...
The Mystery of the Resurrection? FYI, Jesus died and Risen on the Third day and Is Alive for evermore. That is no Mystery that is the Truth. Jesus said No man take my Life, I lay it down freely and have the Power to take it up again.

The Point of Mystery is we do not know all there is to know of The Lord Jesus, but when we see him, we will know Him as HE is.
God the Father is God seen in the Word of God, Jesus is God the Son seen in the Word of God, The Holy Spirit is God seen in the Word of God, all are God yet one, and you can't fully comprehend that, but you being arrogant then you can. As I said, no one can fully know all there is to know about God's divine nature. The Concept of the Trinity speaks of what is seen in the word of God yet is still incapable of fully knowing all. That is why we approach the Godhead reverently and humbly and not to profane GOD. BUT you know all.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#99
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
#99
RR said:
I did read the article, all 20 plus pages, and I've read dozens of others just like it. I have a dozen books on my shelf by renown theologians on the doctrine of the trinity, NONE of them have convince me. So yes, we're done. See you in the Kingdom.
Click to expand...
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
 
U

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
#100
Jul 28, 2017
907
141
43
#100
Chester said:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
Click to expand...
So if in the beginning was the Word, that would be one entity.
Chester said:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
Click to expand...
Thus, if in the beginning the Word was with God, that would infer by implication that there were two entities, the one being the Word and the second being God. (Word + God = 2 entities)
Chester said:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
Click to expand...
Therefore, if you believe that God is a Spirit, then if the Word was God that would infer by implications that the Word was a Spirit. So then in the beginning there was the Spirit (Word) and the Spirit (God)so you still only have two living entities. (Spirit + Spirit = 2 entities)

If that accurately reflects the scripture of John 1:1, then what part of the passage leads you the conclusion that it supports the trinity doctrine which represents that there are three separate and distinct personages of God?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.