Not By Works
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The spiritual realm is very real and contains everything we need for life and godliness, which we access by faith in His great and precious promises. But we can only take hold of and draw NOW into this world that spiritual power, by practising faith NOW in the Promiser and therefore in His promises. What I believed yesterday, or five minutes ago. will not bring any spiritually transforming power into the PRESENT unless I am continuing to believe the spiritual truth I was believing earlier. Let not a double-minded man, believing X then and not-X now, expect to receive anything from the Lord.
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I agree @Hakawaka. You can have a completely washed and white robe, receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, then fall from the faith once delivered to the saints. You will feel like you are in the field with swine feeding on dirty corn husks. You will feel unclean, backslidden, abandoned and filthy. The embarrassment will be so severe that you will be afraid to return back to the Father because you are unworthy.
Ask me how I know....
At age 22 in 1986, with the heart of a child, I had hands laid on me by spirit filled believers and with the faith once delivered to the saints, I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Twenty two years of sin and burden were removed from me and I felt the hand of God upon me. One week later, I was immersed in a pond on a mountain top in Northeastern Pennsylvania.
But, after three years, like the parable of the sower Matthew 13, either it was stolen from me by the adversary, it was sewn on rocky ground or tribulation came that I could not stand against. I was in danger of losing salvation.
I had to repent and continue to repent daily because I know I was born a sinner and my physical nature is to sin. The Holy Spirit of God and mind of Christ that dwells in me are all that is good.
If it were not for the parable of the prodigal son, I would not know I could return. Luke 15:18-32
A person can lose salvation if they backslide and continue in sin. 1 Corinthians 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
A believer may not know this until they fall from grace.
Experience is a harsh teacher, but when a lesson is learned that way, it is not easily forgotten.
Ask me how I know....
At age 22 in 1986, with the heart of a child, I had hands laid on me by spirit filled believers and with the faith once delivered to the saints, I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Twenty two years of sin and burden were removed from me and I felt the hand of God upon me. One week later, I was immersed in a pond on a mountain top in Northeastern Pennsylvania.
But, after three years, like the parable of the sower Matthew 13, either it was stolen from me by the adversary, it was sewn on rocky ground or tribulation came that I could not stand against. I was in danger of losing salvation.
I had to repent and continue to repent daily because I know I was born a sinner and my physical nature is to sin. The Holy Spirit of God and mind of Christ that dwells in me are all that is good.
If it were not for the parable of the prodigal son, I would not know I could return. Luke 15:18-32
A person can lose salvation if they backslide and continue in sin. 1 Corinthians 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
A believer may not know this until they fall from grace.
Experience is a harsh teacher, but when a lesson is learned that way, it is not easily forgotten.
The Wiley ticks of evil still abounds all over on people
to either keep one in guilt or give them pride, in quitting doing sin. At least think they do not sin anymore or can.
Think on that wise. I do not care to ever sin again, yet have I? Yes, I have, do I go out and abuse this grace and harm others? Do you or you or anyone else reading his here?
2 Corinthians 12:7-10
Living Bible
7 I will say this: because these experiences I had were so tremendous, God was afraid I might be puffed up by them; so I was given a physical condition which has been a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to hurt and bother me and prick my pride. 8 Three different times I begged God to make me well again.
9 Each time he said, “No. But I am with you; that is all you need. My power shows up best in weak people.” Now I am glad to boast about how weak I am; I am glad to be a living demonstration of Christ’s power, instead of showing off my own power and abilities. 10 Since I know it is all for Christ’s good, I am quite happy about “the thorn,” and about insults and hardships, persecutions and difficulties; for when I am weak, then I am strong—the less I have, the more I depend on him.
I am weak, God is not, I shall glory in my need for God to lead through me, maybe y'all too
I got delivered from sin, a certain sin, God and I saw it as good, glad it had stopped. Then pride entered and began to become better than others (Luke 18:9-14) I turned back to God in thanksgiving and praise (Psalm 100:4) ( psalm 103:12) ( Ezekiel 36:26)
And see to simply be humble and not sit in Moses's seat as thoughts were flooding me to be a preacher and leader of other people, I saw that, that might be the only reward I might ever get kin doing that. I do not wish to be excommunicated by God, and told I work iniquity over glorying in iniquity
To beleive God or not. I believe God, God makes us free humbly, at least me thank you
to either keep one in guilt or give them pride, in quitting doing sin. At least think they do not sin anymore or can.
Think on that wise. I do not care to ever sin again, yet have I? Yes, I have, do I go out and abuse this grace and harm others? Do you or you or anyone else reading his here?
2 Corinthians 12:7-10
Living Bible
7 I will say this: because these experiences I had were so tremendous, God was afraid I might be puffed up by them; so I was given a physical condition which has been a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to hurt and bother me and prick my pride. 8 Three different times I begged God to make me well again.
9 Each time he said, “No. But I am with you; that is all you need. My power shows up best in weak people.” Now I am glad to boast about how weak I am; I am glad to be a living demonstration of Christ’s power, instead of showing off my own power and abilities. 10 Since I know it is all for Christ’s good, I am quite happy about “the thorn,” and about insults and hardships, persecutions and difficulties; for when I am weak, then I am strong—the less I have, the more I depend on him.
I am weak, God is not, I shall glory in my need for God to lead through me, maybe y'all too
I got delivered from sin, a certain sin, God and I saw it as good, glad it had stopped. Then pride entered and began to become better than others (Luke 18:9-14) I turned back to God in thanksgiving and praise (Psalm 100:4) ( psalm 103:12) ( Ezekiel 36:26)
And see to simply be humble and not sit in Moses's seat as thoughts were flooding me to be a preacher and leader of other people, I saw that, that might be the only reward I might ever get kin doing that. I do not wish to be excommunicated by God, and told I work iniquity over glorying in iniquity
To beleive God or not. I believe God, God makes us free humbly, at least me thank you
It sounds like you are saying you agree you can lose your salvation because you
did, but then you tell a story that does not sound like you lost your salvation.
John 6:37
did, but then you tell a story that does not sound like you lost your salvation.
John 6:37
Luke 15:7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
I repented, ask for forgiveness and claimed the blood of Jesus for forgiveness of sin.
Also, Isiah 43:26Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.
Those are the words of Christ, not mine. I believe in those words, don't you?
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It sounds like you are saying you agree you can lose your salvation because you
did, but then you tell a story that does not sound like you lost your salvation.
John 6:37
did, but then you tell a story that does not sound like you lost your salvation.
John 6:37
Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
I was and have not gotten saved through any other person ever. Saved by God only
Once God reveals truth to any person, that person is changed from inside out, and only hears truth of God's love, not of works as mankind continues to try to do and be right, which no-one can do ever. Sin takes occasion by the command to not sin.
This still tries to get me there again, and has in past, as I seek to learn from any and all errors made in my flesh not giving up to deceive me to this day, being unredeemed
'Therefore now I see as Paul was talking about in Phil 3, along with Romans 7
That person you read of, was saved by man putting hands on him, and became a worse sinner under Law. That happened to me in the past also. No thank you any more, thanking God in risen Son only now, standing diligently daily
As I see God is doing the done work of Son for everyone to stand in belief to truth, it is done for new life to begin in us, in and through each believer as well as all that come to believe to God too.
Growing in grace, not works
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I wasn't saved because I had hands laid on me, I received salvation through faith that Jesus the Messiah was able to deliver me from sin. The laying on of hands is a scriptural act and should not be construed to be anything other than a sign of faith.
Otherwise, why would the Apostle Paul, whom I see quoted often on this forum do this. Acts 19:6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.
Otherwise, why would the Apostle Paul, whom I see quoted often on this forum do this. Acts 19:6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.
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Winner, not Paul, rather God through Paul. Yet people have and unfortunately do give credit to people, and people put faith in other people, and God is not the leader anymore nor used as if is from these leaders. I know I did it in religion and see it was a farse now from me, when I was behind the scenes, that the laymen do not see, I have seen it. Even as John the Baptist saw it too in his time here on earth also.
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I agree. I saw it often in the mid late 80's in what was know as the charismatic movement, now strangely similar to the prosperity gospel.
Whole churches lining up members to have the pastor lay hands on them with deacons behind to catch everyone as they fell back.
I was deceived because I was young in the faith, looking at the pastors and not God.
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that happened to me also, I got caught up under Law, did not see the curse it revealed to me to being under it to do it. Whenever I thought I was doing it, pride set in and I was a person better than others attitude that led me, not seeing it, being proud over it. Only to fall again as Paul talks of in Romans 7:10
Not that I have achieved or am better than anyone else, I am not, I need God's forgiveness as in the verses Luke 18:9-14 tell me this truth to remain in humility, being willing for God's lead not my own or anyone else's either, as had done in past, now aware to not as you are also, thank you
Had to got through it to see it, I give thanks to God to not ever leave me or forsake me as people do so easily, unfortuantely
Not that I have achieved or am better than anyone else, I am not, I need God's forgiveness as in the verses Luke 18:9-14 tell me this truth to remain in humility, being willing for God's lead not my own or anyone else's either, as had done in past, now aware to not as you are also, thank you
Had to got through it to see it, I give thanks to God to not ever leave me or forsake me as people do so easily, unfortuantely
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How would you interpret the following based on your post above?
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible to bring back to re-pentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come—6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible to bring back to re-pentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come—6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.
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I see this are talking about us, the people asking for more forgiveness in continual repentance when one sins again, needs to ask for more and are not forgiven unless they repent again. keeps people from the message of reconciliation. saying yes I am forgbvirn,then saying need more.What?
This is to me straightening out the truth of those scriptures, as Jesus said it is finished in John 19:30, ask this what got finished? Could it be the Law and Prophets that he said he came to earth in the flesh to fulfill, not destroy? Matt 5:17 so we can accept that in thankfulness and then ask Father for the new life offered in the risen Christ?
John 4:23-24
God can only be worshipped in Spirit and Truth, not of flesh and blood. So ask in sincerity and believe God to get trained new in love to all as is done by Son first on that cross to cross over with him, thank you. The born again life is given, never earned, it cannot be earned, just go over the first testament and see that truth, not even the first chosen could ever do it
This is to me straightening out the truth of those scriptures, as Jesus said it is finished in John 19:30, ask this what got finished? Could it be the Law and Prophets that he said he came to earth in the flesh to fulfill, not destroy? Matt 5:17 so we can accept that in thankfulness and then ask Father for the new life offered in the risen Christ?
John 4:23-24
God can only be worshipped in Spirit and Truth, not of flesh and blood. So ask in sincerity and believe God to get trained new in love to all as is done by Son first on that cross to cross over with him, thank you. The born again life is given, never earned, it cannot be earned, just go over the first testament and see that truth, not even the first chosen could ever do it
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That passage is of great concern to me. I was still not a mature believer. I will stand in judgement, I pray that God will have mercy on me, because I have sinned.
2 Samuel 24:14And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let us fall now into the hand of the LORD; for his mercies are great: and let me not fall into the hand of man.
1 Chronicles21:
13 So David replied to Gad, “This is a very bad choice for me to make! Let me now please fall into the hand of the Lord, because his mercy is very great, but may I never fall into human hands!”
14 Then the Lord sent a pestilence to Israel, and 70,000 men died in Israel. 15 God also sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem, but as he was about to do so, the Lord looked and withdrew[e] the calamity by saying to the destroying angel, “Enough! Stop what you’re doing!”[f]
So the angel of the Lord remained standing near the threshing floor that belonged to Ornan[g] the Jebusite.[h] 16 David looked up and saw the angel of the Lord standing between earth and heaven, with a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell on their faces.
So imagine living my life with no longer having the blessed assuredness of entering the kingdom. There is no boasting, no pride, no envy. I am in the hands of the living God.
I will still proclaim his good tidings.
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Ok
Are you saying that Hebrews verses does not apply to us because we confess our sins and ask for forgiveness?
If so we cannot lose our salvation, yet @SavedByBlood seems to say that we can lose salvation and then get it back because Jesus comes for us (lost sheep).
If that's the case why does not Jesus search out those in Hebrews?
Hi @SavedByBlood, pleased to meet you.
Bill
Are you saying that Hebrews verses does not apply to us because we confess our sins and ask for forgiveness?
If so we cannot lose our salvation, yet @SavedByBlood seems to say that we can lose salvation and then get it back because Jesus comes for us (lost sheep).
If that's the case why does not Jesus search out those in Hebrews?
Hi @SavedByBlood, pleased to meet you.
Bill
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We are saved by faith through the grace of God.
That faith is in Jesus.
As genuine believers we do not lose salvation because we sin.
When we sin we confess it to God, it's relational.
We want to be like Jesus and we must ask that every day of the Holy Spirit.
And as you say when we stray Jesus will seek us out.
Why?
Because he knows we are his sheep, he will bring us because he was promised by God that we would not lose any that God has given him.
Amen to that.
That faith is in Jesus.
As genuine believers we do not lose salvation because we sin.
When we sin we confess it to God, it's relational.
We want to be like Jesus and we must ask that every day of the Holy Spirit.
And as you say when we stray Jesus will seek us out.
Why?
Because he knows we are his sheep, he will bring us because he was promised by God that we would not lose any that God has given him.
Amen to that.
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