Does anyone know of....

Okay.
I believe in God's provision and the sufficiency of the Spirit wrought Power and Truth of the Gospel message.
In this way God is sovereign (HIS conditions) just, merciful and loving, He does not choose some while leaving others in their sin and unable to believe.
The End.

“But fallen man is at enmity with God, walks contrary to His ways”

“fallen man “

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:23‭KJV‬‬

…..the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:1‬ ‭

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, (Numbers‬ ‭21:8-9‬ ‭) even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him …….shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re all lost until we’re found we weren’t in a different boat before we believed. The “ unsaved “ can be saved
If we tell the truth

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“…if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We weren’t any different before we began to hear the truth if we weren’t lost and condemned like all man was bu sin brother we never would have needed to be saved

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We used to be servants of sin loke everyone else is bro and some still are

“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the pre deternined thing is misunderstood and applied it’s about everyone bieng lost without herring the gospel and believing in the lord Jesus.

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.( from what’s coming on all ) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? ( mark 16:15-16)And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? ( thier report the chosen witnesses of the gospel who wrote the nt scripture )

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everyone is the same brother no one is special or pre chosen that’s why we need to believe the gospel because Jesus is the pre determined one everything said of pre determination is being said of those who are in Christ they have taken on his inheritance and blessing it’s not because they were chosen and special and pre destined , it’s because he was and he Carrie’s us with him if we believe

What a foolish question. People are not born believing anything.

You have yet to show us the Scripture verse(s) that explicitly tell us that man
of his own free will is able to positively respond to the gospel message.

“the gospel that was once anathema is now good news? “

whats better news to a mortal human ?

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is that all the suddenly bad news because we hear him say this ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You sayong either were saved or not condtradicts what he’s saying he’s saying to sinners “ if you don’t repent your going to die “ believe me And you’ll live “

Is it bad news if God came and told anyone that would believe in him that they need to do more than just call him “lord lord “ but actually come and learn from the gospel his words and teachings and apply those things ? Is this also bad news or great news ?

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-

brother maybe our perception of what good news is is different it would be great news if God came and said “ grace now I’m going to save some people and destroy others and no one has any chance or say in anything “ I guess that would be for the ones he decided arbitrarily to save

Bit to me I’d rather have the lord tell me don’t eat the fruit you’ll die even though it’s right there in Eden , and you can freely eat it , just trust me don’t eat it you’ll die for certain . stay with me trust my words and live you know I’m the Lord .

that’s the best news I could imagine now I can avoid the fruit of death lol and enjoy Essen right ? If I just hear what my creator said who blessed me and gave me life and who suffered and died for my sins ? Isn’t it great news to know he came and told me the truth said believe me and be saved ?

This is good news for sinners whom understand the condemnation of death for sin

“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭9:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everyone’s invited to the wedding the chosen ones well they rejected his invite in the gospel

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-3, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The intended group that was invited refused having better things to do . We’re in the as many as you can find group the gentiles the audience being invited now

“Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭

I never mentioned predestination. All I'm asking is what changed an individual who who is at enmity with God, who walks contrary to His ways, and who believes the gospel to be foolish, comes to reverse all this concerning himself. Does the individual do this themselves or does God intervene?
I introduced the statement of Jesus that Christians can do nothing apart from Him. I did so because it seems reasonable to me that if people who are partakers of the divine nature, are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and who possess spiritual giftedness still require divine help, why is it that people who are opposed to God do not?

It's not that I disagree with what you are sharing. But what you are sharing isn't addressing my question. I don't know how to make it plainer than my previous post.

Consider that those who are wailing and gnashing teeth do not consider it good news to discover they were wrong all along.

Do you think it much different for a person who is opposed to God to find out they were wrong?

Some may submit readily, or in relief, after God has done His work in them. Others? Not so much.

Many tell of resisting tooth and nail. We know what that means. Very reluctant converts!

BUT... afterwards? Extremely grateful that God rescued them.

Although some call it being kidnapped against their will and say God is a tyrant for acting unilaterally.

I mean... how dare He take possession of that which is His???

Reigious WORD GAMES.

If we've been Born Again and have the Holy SPirit indwelling, HE bears witness with our spirit that we're children of God. (Rom 8:16)

"Calvinism" (or "isms" in general) are nothing but man's theology, and can't provide "Assurance" of anything.

Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good."

@Magenta provided you with this scripture which proclaims just the opposite!
Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
If man cannot submit to God, then what must take place so that he is able to!
You seem to ignore scripture when it does not agree with your high thoughts..... Something has to change before you turn to God

Jesus also said, "You did not choose me, but I chose you."

Some read it differently, though. They read it as:

I/(you) chose Jesus and then He accepted me/(you).

@Nehemiah6 eagerly awaiting your apology.

Does anyone know of.... - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

@Nehemiah6 eagerly awaiting your apology.

Does anyone know of.... - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

Nah not through Noah at all:

1 Peter 3:19-20
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

This is AFTER.

This is true, but the question is: WHY did Jesus choose these people? was it unconditional or conditional? I would argue the reason for it was that they were the true Israel, the remnant among the nation who were taught and heard from the Father,who then gave them to His Son.

Just like Cornelius, why is it that Cornelius needed to get the gospel message asap? Because he was already a just man before God and his prayers were heard. Therefore God chose to bring the Gospel to him in express delivery fashion.

It also served as a means to teach Peter that: "
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

Once you study the context, you will note that this choosing had nothing to do with salvation, but everything to do with service to Christ and bearing spiritual fruit. So John 15:16 has been taken out of context a hundred times to justify the false doctrine of election for salvation.

Here is what the verse says: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Please take note of the word "ordained". What does it mean? According to Vine's Expository Dictionary here is what the Greek tithemi means: to put: See APPOINT, No. 3. Or to place: to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively). So Christ placed or appointed or ordained the eleven apostles to go and preach the Gospel in all the world (see Acts 1), and now He has appointed the Church to do the same. That will bear fruit primarily in the salvation of souls.

Now do you see why this verse cannot possibly be used to claim that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation?

Also, the apostles did not choose Christ, but Christ specifically chose each one for apostleship.

You don't understand the verses. You should start in verse 18...by the Spirit...by which He also went and preached...

First, Romans 1 does not speak of people who know there is a God, but about people who know God and reject Him...


Second, it is true that without Him we can do nothing, just as it is true that without the Father Jesus could do nothing. Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner" (Jn 5:19). Jesus always did those things that pleased the Father (Jn 8:29). So we too, when the Spirit of God (who lives in our hearts) shows us what He wants us to think, what He wants us to say, and what He wants us to do, then we are to trust Him and walk in lock step with Him.


But when we who live in the Spirit fail to walk as He leads, are we doing anything different than the lost person who knows God and rejects Him? Not really.

Finally, the ability to trust God is an ability that all humans (saved and unsaved alike) possess. So, no, nothing "in the natural man must be overcome to enable him to believe".