Dietary laws, do you keep them?

Do you think we are to function in the same manner as the Jews did?

Do you think we function in the same way as the Jews did after we believed in Jesus Christ?

In some ways we function in a parallel way.
But, we are no longer limited to the same way that Jews who needed to be under the Law needed.



To our loss the meaning of the Greek words translated "new creation" rarely get explained.
It would be a great help for our understanding of what we have become as Christians to be shown.

It does not mean we have been made to be like-new. Not, refurbished by God.
It means, the Lord has caused us to become something totally new that never existed before!

We have become a new spiritual creature! No Jew under the Law was ever like we have been made to become. that no longer requires us
to live by Law like the Jews had to, who were not the new creation in Christ!


grace and peace ................

Indeed, I keep them and I think that they are beneficial. It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20) and we are required to refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin. Moreover, in Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Mosaic Law, so it is also a sin for someone to claim that it is not a sin to eat unclean animals. The Mosaic Law was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so I agree that we should obey them because it is to our benefit, though that doesn't change that we are obligated to obey God. There are countless diseases and parasites that have been transferred to humans because of eating unclean animals. There are ways that people can try to turn God's word against obeying God's word, but it shouldn't make sense to people to do that.

Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey God's law by word and by example and being a follower of what he taught is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too. In Ephesians 2:10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works and God's law is His instructions to equip us to do every good work. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so verses that speak about those who are in Christ are only referring to those who are walking in obedience to God's law. Likewise, God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Christ, which is why there are many verses that connect our belief in him with our obedience to it, such as in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Christ are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In other words, God's word is His instructions for how to believe in God's word made flesh.

Peter notably did not just object by saying that he had never eaten anything that was unclean, but also added that he had never eaten anything that was common and God notably only rebuked Peter for referring to what he had made clean as being common, not for referring to what He has made clean as being unclean, yet you are interpreting his vision as though it were the other way around. Peter correctly identified the unclean animals as unclean and correctly know that he was not supposed to eat them in obedience to what God has commanded, but he incorrectly identified the clean animals as common and he incorrectly declined to eat them in disobedience to God's command to kill and eat. Peter interpreted his vision three times as being in regard to incorrectly identifying Gentiles without saying a word about now being able to eat unclean animals, so his vision had nothing to do with a change in their status.

Jesus was having a conversation about whether someone can become common by eating bread with unwashed hands (Matthew 15:20), which is a separate issue from eating unclean animals. Jesus was cricking the Pharisees as seeing hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God, so he should not be interpreted as turning around and even more hypocritically doing what he just finished criticizing them as being hypocrites for doing. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law, so if you think that Jesus did that, then according to God you should consider him to be a false prophet,

Do you think that the holy, righteous, and good commandments of God are the doctrines of devils? If not, then why are you interpreting what Paul referred to as the doctrine of demons as referring to the holy, righteous, and good commandments of God? There are ways that you can try to turn God's word against obeying God's word, but it shouldn't make sense to you to do that.

Christians are not under the Law.

Period.

Which part of this don't you understand?

Since I quoted Scripture and Christ already told you that nothing that goes into your stomach defiles you, you are the one who is twisting Scripture to oppose Christ and the New Covenant. If you choose to live under the Old Covenant, you forfeit everything under the New Covenant. And if you fail to observe each and every Law given by Moses, you are doomed. Evidently you have never read and studied the New Testament.

I did not speak against what Christ said, but rather I raised some major problems with how you are interpreting what he said, which you neglected to address. You are interpreting what Christ said in a way that makes him out to be a false prophet, so you are the one who is twisting Scripture to oppose Christ and the New Covenant.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, which includes the laws against eating unclean animals, so I have been speaking about how we should live under the New Covenant. Moreover, that means that those who do not want to obey the Torah also do not want to come under the New Covenant. If someone breaks one of the law of the Torah, then thankfully they can repent.

I have read and studied the NT which is why I do not think that it makes sense to interpret its authors as speaking following what they considered to be Scripture, especially considering that they quoted or alluded to the OT thousands of times to support what they were saying and to show that they hadn't departed from it.

You also neglected to answer my question about why you were interpreting what Paul referred to as being the doctrines of demons as referring to the holy, righteous, and good commandments of God.

Jesus taught as what?.......... A rabbi. Not as an apostle to the Church.
He was teaching Jews as a Jewish teacher would teach Jews.

The Church did not exist until Jesus was glorified and Pentecost took place.

Christians who function in the Spirit in a genuine way, are not functioning as one needing to be under Law.
Legalists love promoting Law in churches.

In Christ....

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repent from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is the Gospel of the Kingdom that he commissioned his disciples to bring to the nations (Matthew 28:16-20). Likewise, Paul also taught the Gospel of the Kingdom based on the Torah (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23, Romans 15:4, 18-19).

Jesus also set a sinless example for his followers to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he is of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1).

So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to walk in obedience to the Torah by word and by example and being a follower of Christ is about being a follower of what he taught, not about refusing to follow him. Being a follower of Christ is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too. A Gentile can look at what Christ taught by word and by example and decide whether or not to become his follower, but a Gentile can't follow him by refusing to follow what he taught. In John 12:46-50, it does not give us any room to reject anything that Jesus taught during his ministry.

The Greek word "ekklesia" is translated as "church" as is used many times in the Septuagint to refer to Israel in the wilderness, so that is when the Church began to exist. There is nothing about Pentecost that means that we should reject anything that Jesus taught by word or by example.

The Spirit has been given to those who obey God (Acts 5:32). The Spirit has the role of leading us in truth (John 16:13), the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Torah (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and the Torah is truth (Psalms 119:142). The Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin (John 16:8) and it is by the Torah that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20). In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Torah. In Galatians 5:16-23, everything that Paul lists as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Torah while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's character that are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to see that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Torah, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6) and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Torah.

If God is a legalist for graciously teaching us to obey His law and Jesus is a legalist for graciously spending his ministry teaching us to obey it by word and by example, then we should all be legalists.

Note.... "At hand."
Not there yet!

The following had to take place first before the Church age would be launched...



On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture
has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit,
whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had
not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified." John 7:37-39


grace and peace ..............

It is at hand in the sense that Jesus is standing at the door and knocking waiting for us to repent and let him in.

Again, the Church age began with Israel in the wilderness.

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture
has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit,
whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had
not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified."

Click to expand...

Again, I quoted many verses that show that the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Torah. The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the character of God as it does to describe the character of the Torah, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), which is because it is God's instructions for how to be a doer of His character traits, which are also known as the fruits of the Spirit, and which again is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Torah.

The way to believe in God is by being a doer of His character traits. For example, our good works in obedience to the Torah testify about God's goodness, which is why they given glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him, and the same is true for God's other character traits. The way to believe that God is just is by being a doer of justice, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of God's laws for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. This is also the way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of God's character (Hebrews 1:3).

Perhaps its not me who doesn't misunderstand Paul, because the bible clearly says Christians His "saints" keep God's law

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Christians need to also have faith in and of Jesus. Did Jesus keep the commandments- He did and told us to- John 15:10 Mat 15:3-14 not to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 He is our example to follow 1 John 2:6

Paul is greatly misunderstood which is why his teaching came with a warning 2 Peter 3:16 Jesus is plain to understand If you love Me- keep My commandments John 14:15 God wrote His law in our hearts so obviously we are to keep God's law. Its not as if people can choose who is "under" the law or not, what Paul means is we are not "under the condemnation of the law" if one is walking in His Spirit, which means one would be obeying God's law, not rebelling against it.

Even Paul says those who don't keep God's law are an enmity to God. Rom 8:7-8

Guess we will have to agree to disagree and will get sorted out soon, but I would not want to be wrong about this. Mat 7:23 Rev 22:14-15 1 John 2:4 Heb 10::26-30

I wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word

Paul explains what it means and its someone who dies to sin. Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12

Sin separated man from God Isa 59:2 doing the same thing that separated us from God in the first place is not how we will be reconciled.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Someone who is in Christ will be obeying Him through love and faith. This is what reconciles us

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

"Those who" are not only Jews- it is anyone who is grafted in Christ though faith Ga 3:26-28. Those who have faith not only hear our Saviors voice, but lives by His every Word Mat 4:4 such as Mat 15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 etc.

Israel is Israel, and the Church is a NEW creation in Christ!


That is typical Dominion theology nonsense which was designed to appeal to religious types
who want something to fight for (enabling them to feel self righteous) in the energy of their flesh
because of their failure to walk in the guidance of the Spirit.

Have a good Day...

Enjoy your endless Sabbath of mind.
It must be nice not having to think.
Just repeating what some bible thumper tells you to think..

You mean Jesus the commandments He personally wrote - If you love Me keep My commandments. It’s definitely a decision one makes or not to live by His every Word and follow His example He left for us.

Take care.

Correct, the law is the shadow but the Holy Spirit is the fulfillment.

The law told Israel that they were not holy, that they needed a savior.

Israel were given the law and failed so badly in their obedience, that they turned and
crucified their Lord.

Jesus was only sent to the Jews. The Gentiles were drafted in much later. That's what you do, pick the laws you want and ignore the rest. Surely you can see this.
For example, you picked a few food laws to obey but ignored hundreds of other laws.

I don't select any subset of the laws and then say I will obey those only.

I just obey the commandment that Jesus gave in the new covenant.

1 Corinthians 11:4-5
Love is patient, love is kind, it is not jealous, love does not brag, it is not arrogant. It does not
act disgracefully, it does not seek its own benefit.

Love cannot break the law.

Love is from the Holy Spirit and powered by the Holy Spirit.

Love is not about rules, laws, statutes, ceremony.

God Spirit is what enables us to keep the commandments John 14:15-18- there is no shadow of God’s eternal law- its what defines sin 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 and God does not want us to sin. 1 John 2:1-6

Jesus taught we should keep the commandments of God as it affects our status in heaven Mat 5:19-30 so obviously not something that ended He said our righteousness must exceed the Pharisees and He condemned them for keeping their own laws/traditions in lieu of keeping the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

Anyway- we are not going to agree, thats okay but maybe one day you will consider all of the teachings of Jesus- He is the way and led by example and never once taught we can break the Ten Commandments- He taught and lived the opposite.

You have made a fatal blunder.

Your understanding of the revelation of Jesus Christ is missing in your posts.

The law gave Israel a knowledge of sin but not the ability to obey that law.

Jesus Christ is the only way to achieve righteousness.

We receive the righteousness of Jesus Christ, a perfect righteousness, and that was a gift.

You cannot obey the rules of the law because that was not the purpose of the law.

It's not about you or your failure to obey the law, it never was about you.

You will boast in Jesus Christ and never boast in yourself, ever again.