Scripture Based Flat Earth Proposition

I agree with you a 100% on both statements. See, we do have common ground.

That's why I'm asking you to let God's creation speak for itself, just as you said.

Observe God's creation, the stars, before you come to a conclusion on the issue, of course! Because we both know the Bible doesn't say the earth is a sphere or flat. And the issue has no bearing on God's unfailing love for us or our salvation through Jesus/Yeshua. It simply is as Almighty God made it.

Observe the (apparent) motion of the stars in the night sky and see for yourself if they demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that the earth is a spinning sphere or a flat earth. After you do this, tell me what you find. All the more so, Gen 1 says God will use the stars for signs. God is in control of stars.

-- In the northern hemisphere (such as Ohio), looking north, the constellations circle counter-clockwise around the star Polaris (actually pretty close to this point, called the North Celestial Pole).

-- At the equator (such as Bogota, Columbia), if you're looking east, the stars rising on that straight-east-line, rise in the exactly east and go in a straight line descending in the exactly west (that 0-degree line). Then as you look south the stars spin clockwise around the southern horizon vanishing point. You look north and the stars spin clockwise around Polaris at the northern horizon vanishing point.

-- In the southern hemisphere, looking south, the constellations circle clockwise around the star Sigma Octantis (called the South Celestial Pole).

Meditate, study and think this through. The motion of God's stars is only possible if the earth is a spinning sphere (which it is, and there are many other proofs beside the stars, which I've presented to you). And these observations are not possible for a flat earth with "stars spinning around the northern point, as if they were hanging from a baby crib spinner over a baby crib".

Not sure how to make these observations yourself yet? I can help. You'll be making these observations with your own eyes, at least the northern one, assuming that's where you live. You can get the equator and/or southern observations anyway you choose to: take a vacation there, or ask someone who lives there, or make a Christian friend who lives there, or checkout time-lapse video of it from anyone and everyone. But get out into God's creation, as He made it, and make the required observations before you come to a conclusion, rather than assuming it's as you wish it would be.

Think about it, Romans34, if the earth is a spinning sphere, what is the damage you're doing by suggesting it's flat on a Christian website?

You, and anyone, can start by understanding the simple concept as it is observed by watching this short video: Introductory Astronomy: Motions of the Stars (youtube.com).
And use this web program Stellarium Web Online Star Map (stellarium-web.org) which will show you what constellations you will see looking at the night sky. At the bottom right of the main page you'll see a Date/Time box; when you click on it, there's a slider you can move that will set the stars in motion.

You simply go outside at night and identify, the Big Dipper, and then check it every 30 mins and track it's motion.

Below is a screen shot of the Stellerium website page. You can see at the bottom left you can enter your location, or any location in the world. Don't believe it, go out and confirm it with your own eyes.

Think about it, Sculpt, if the earth is flat, what is the damage you're doing by insisting it is a spinning sphere on a Christian website? You could be aiding and supporting an agenda systematically designed to hide God. Think about it!

Proper interpretation starts with Scripture and ends with Scripture. If any "evidence from creation" or anything else doesn't harmonize with Scripture, then the reasonable conclusion is that our understanding is tainted or lacking, and more study is required to come to the correct interpretation. And since globe earth theory doesn't harmonize with Scripture, it is NOT the proper correct interpretation.

Romans, I got to hand it to you man, you never give up. I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing, but you and Gary definitely have the cat by the tail on this one.

I want to share something with you that the Lord shared with me right when I was getting started in ministry many moons ago.

The Lord spoke to my heart one day, this may be of no value to you whatsoever, but it served me well, and I hope it blesses you and helps you to be fruitful. This is what He said, "Never speak to a man about me, until you have first spoken to me about the man."

Now, I'm not in the habit of running around saying God told me this or that, but in this instance, I have no doubt that God spoke this to my heart and mind.

So what I'm saying is, or what I'm asking, in the most sincere and non judgmental way possible is, Do you pray for these people even half as much as you debate with them?

Heliocentrism is one of the biggest deceptions Satan has ever used against the human race. Christ saying that this kind only comes out by prayer and fasting, seems appropriate here. These folks are not going to be swayed by your arguments no matter how well reasoned and presented they may be, and you're one of the better defenders of our scriptural position.

There are dark forces at work here. We will have to pray our fellow believers into this awareness, there is really no other way.

I hope this was encouraging, as that was my sincere intention.
Be blessed, be fruitful, be at peace,
In His Most Holy Name.

Scripture does not say the earth is flat. You said so yourself. On this issue God's creation speaks for itself. Just as you said it should. But you're forcing YOUR preconceptions onto scripture. And you're refusing look at God's creation on this issue. A spherical earth is not in disharmony with scripture, your eisegesis reading is.

Will you examine the sign of the stars on this issue?

Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers."

The Bible is rather clear that the earth is a round globe, friend.

Take out a sheet of paper.
Draw a large circle upon it.
Have fun spending the rest of the evening trying to turn it into a globe.

Circles are no more globes than squares are cubes.

Don't believe everything you think,
friend.

Based on that scriptural reference it could also be as flat as a Frisbee.

I've already examined the evidence, and it makes more sense with a stationary earth. Otherwise, how does Polaris ALWAYS stay in the same spot in the sky during the earth's orbit, especially with the earth gyrating around the sun as it flies through galaxies? There are about 68 verses in the Bible that speak of the sun being up, rising, setting, going down, etc.; but there isn't even one reference to the earth moving.

I really cannot say what the actual percentage might be - but - yes I do!

Since you claim to have examined the evidence, yours is a question of deliberate, chosen ignorance, not lack of information.

The Bible give us exactly zero references to North America, yet here we are. Give that some thought.

Does the sun "rise" in the perspective of an observer on Earth's surface? Does the Earth move in the perspective of an observer on the Earth's surface? Though He does at times, where is God obligated to give an "objective" perspective on anything happening on Earth? Most of Scripture is written from the perspective of a human observer.

Indeed. Everyone I know who believes in a spherical earth that revolves around the sun (myself included) still refer to "sunrises" and "sunsets"........because calling them "Earth Spins" is just plain weird.



This next part is not addressed to anyone in particular but I have been wondering something, I asked about it in another flat earth thread but did not get a sufficient answer so I'm asking about it again. I'm genuinely curious about this:

Does flat Earth theory allow for the sun, moon, planets, and other heavenly bodies to be spherical, and only the Earth is thought to be flat?

If not, then the heavenly bodies would have to be tipped at an angle so they face us exactly in order to appear round from our viewpoint on earth.

And If so, then why different physical rules for all the heavenly bodies except for Earth?

Do you claim to have examined the evidence, and if so, does that mean that since you claim to have examined the evidence, yours is a question of deliberate, chosen ignorance, not lack of information? Instead of making unfounded accusations, why don't you just call it "opinion"? Also, why don't you "put your money where your mouth is" and answer and explain my question about Polaris and the stars? You guys like to deny, deny, deny whatever someone else states (that you disagree with), and ask, ask, ask questions, but your never try to objectively answer any questions. Why is that? Because you cannot? Are you afraid? You guys come across as though you MUST always be right, and everyone else is wrong, no matter what they say. And you don't even try to reason with someone else and try to answer their questions. If globe earth is truth, then let's here y'all start answering our questions and prove that what you know (or believe you know) is the truth. Don't just proclaim it must be true because that's what you were taught and have always "known" to be true. PROVE it! Explain those things expressed in this proposition in such a way that doesn't look down your nose at everyone you disagree with and with a practical and convincing argument, instead of stating as FACT what has NEVER been PROVEN. [I didn't say NEVER been BELIEVED and ACCEPTED as FACT. I said NEVER been PROVEN as FACT.]
I never said God was obligated to do anything. Most of Scripture may be written from the perspective of a human observer, but God's Word is still God's Word, and was inspired (God breathed) from His perspective. He doesn't have to explain Himself to man. Man is expected to believe what He has written. Sad when modern day so-called science converts men to believe not only what is contrary to Scripture, but contrary to their own God-given perspective and common sense.

Flat Earthers also refer to "sunrise" and "sunset", and they understand that is perspective. Exactly.
The FE model doesn't have "outer space" and "planets" as such. Whether sun, moon, and stars are flat or spherical is irrelevant if there is no "outer space", no "planets", no "galaxies", no "universe", etc. From a Biblical perspective, what we call "planets" are 'wondering stars' in reality, and while the Earth is what God called the "dry land" (as opposed to the Seas, or gathering together of the waters), and all of the rest of the "planets" were named after pagan gods and goddesses.

It is NOT written that the Earth is a globe either, so based upon the same logic, all is pointless with believing it's a globe..

So please help me to understand what you are saying by explaining to me 1) what you are referring to as goal posts, and 2) how they were moved, and 3) how it is a logical fallacy.

@Snackersmom - the above image is how people who cannot make their mind leave the Ball Earth model description imagine the Flat Earth model to be. But, it bears no resemblance to the Flat Earth model - the depiction of the everything in that image is incorrect. And, all that is seen (except the earth) is much smaller and much closer to the earth - above the earth.

Everything we see in the sky is within thousands of miles and not millions, billions, or trillions.

The sun is not a 'star' - the Bible speaks of them differently. The "planets" are actually stars.

The point I am trying to make is that - if you are going to look at the Flat Earth model - you must look at it from a FE POV - you cannot look at it from a BE POV and expect to understand it correctly.