Scripture Based Flat Earth Proposition
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No worries - there are probably more things to add to your list... 
If you can tell a really big lie, and get people to believe it - you can then tell even more lies because of it. And, that is the world we live in - lies on top of lies on top of lies.
Most people do not realize that - in spite of the pictures they have been shown - they have never actually seen distant galaxies, planets, etc. - all of that stuff is "made up" - what they see in the pictures is not real in terms of what they have been told that it is.
If you can tell a really big lie, and get people to believe it - you can then tell even more lies because of it. And, that is the world we live in - lies on top of lies on top of lies.
Most people do not realize that - in spite of the pictures they have been shown - they have never actually seen distant galaxies, planets, etc. - all of that stuff is "made up" - what they see in the pictures is not real in terms of what they have been told that it is.
I am not suggesting that anyone should have an arbitrary absolute closed "locked" mind about it - assuming-without-thinking that every case is literal.
On the contrary, if there is any valid indication that something in scripture is non-literal - we certainly do not want to miss it - because, we want a proper clear understanding.
What I am saying is - if there is no such indication - the "default assumption" must be that it is literal.
In no case should we "invent" a non-literal "excuse" just because something [at first] does not seem to make sense.
Instead, we should believe and trust what scripture says first - and then - try to make sense of other things in light of what scripture says.
On the contrary, if there is any valid indication that something in scripture is non-literal - we certainly do not want to miss it - because, we want a proper clear understanding.
What I am saying is - if there is no such indication - the "default assumption" must be that it is literal.
In no case should we "invent" a non-literal "excuse" just because something [at first] does not seem to make sense.
Instead, we should believe and trust what scripture says first - and then - try to make sense of other things in light of what scripture says.
Revelation 12:
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
It is plain to see by the wording of this passage that not every detail of it is literal. However, careful study of the all of the passages having verses containing 'sun', 'moon', and 'stars' should yield the understanding that most of them are talking about the literal sun, moon, and stars - many of them also referring to the same event.
Following is a generated search list of all of the individual verses that contain 'sun', 'moon', and 'stars'. Based on a [somewhat] cursory reading of these verses only - without looking up all of the complete passages and making a full-blown study - I would suggest that all of them except the first one and the last one are talking about the literal sun, moon, and stars.
Genesis 37:
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Deuteronomy 4:
19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
Psalms 148:
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Ecclesiastes 12:
2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
Isaiah 13:
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Jeremiah 31:
35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Ezekiel 32:
7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Joel 2:
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joel 3:
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Matthew 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Luke 21:
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
1 Corinthians 15:
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
Revelation 8:
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Revelation 12:
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
It is plain to see by the wording of this passage that not every detail of it is literal. However, careful study of the all of the passages having verses containing 'sun', 'moon', and 'stars' should yield the understanding that most of them are talking about the literal sun, moon, and stars - many of them also referring to the same event.
Following is a generated search list of all of the individual verses that contain 'sun', 'moon', and 'stars'. Based on a [somewhat] cursory reading of these verses only - without looking up all of the complete passages and making a full-blown study - I would suggest that all of them except the first one and the last one are talking about the literal sun, moon, and stars.
Genesis 37:
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Deuteronomy 4:
19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
Psalms 148:
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Ecclesiastes 12:
2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
Isaiah 13:
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Jeremiah 31:
35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Ezekiel 32:
7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Joel 2:
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joel 3:
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Matthew 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Luke 21:
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
1 Corinthians 15:
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
Revelation 8:
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Revelation 12:
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
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@Romans34 I asked you what the best passages/verses that say the Earth is flat, and you wrote
The new verse there being Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken."
Of course, since the apparent motion of the stars prove the earth is a rotating sphere beyond a reasonable doubt, I'm addressing this subject with the hope you'll let God's creation speak for itself rather than you reading FE cult assumptions into it.
You talk about taking a verse as is and not 'reading into it'. So, you have to admit the verse does not say the earth is flat in any way.
1. If we take this verse only literally, stars can "fall from heaven" whether the earth is spherical or flat. Is that not true? So, that's basically it. It's not a very good verse for the earth being flat.
But I know you are engaging in eisegesis here (importing your own subjective interpretations into the text, unsupported by the text itself) regarding the size of stars... when you say this verse means the stars must be smaller than earth to fall from heaven.
2. Matthew 24:29 makes no statement about the sizes of earth or the stars. Is that not true?
If you want to take it literally, we can. First off, God is all powerful and can certainly make stars fall from heaven regardless of size and distance. Is this not true?
If you want to make an issue of size... larger things can fall on smaller things. Judges 16 tells us the Philistine temple fell on Samson. The temple is many times larger than Samson.
Are you applying your same 'Mathew 24:29 logic' to when Jesus fed the five thousand? Jesus had 5 loaves and 2 fish. So, according to your scriptural logic, the loaves and fish must be 500 pounds each to feed five thousand men, right? To you, the verse must insinuate the size of the loaves/fish? I should note, the three gospels do not write it was a miracle. Have you applied the same logic for the size of the loaves and fish as you are to the stars in Mathew 24:29? Or you being inconsistent because of the FE cult belief?
Also, as others have referenced, the stars, and them falling, are referenced as powers and angels in scripture. It may mean the falling of powers in the full Bible context.
Isaiah 14:12: How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
Ephesians 6:12: For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken."
Of course, since the apparent motion of the stars prove the earth is a rotating sphere beyond a reasonable doubt, I'm addressing this subject with the hope you'll let God's creation speak for itself rather than you reading FE cult assumptions into it.
You talk about taking a verse as is and not 'reading into it'. So, you have to admit the verse does not say the earth is flat in any way.
1. If we take this verse only literally, stars can "fall from heaven" whether the earth is spherical or flat. Is that not true? So, that's basically it. It's not a very good verse for the earth being flat.
But I know you are engaging in eisegesis here (importing your own subjective interpretations into the text, unsupported by the text itself) regarding the size of stars... when you say this verse means the stars must be smaller than earth to fall from heaven.
2. Matthew 24:29 makes no statement about the sizes of earth or the stars. Is that not true?
If you want to take it literally, we can. First off, God is all powerful and can certainly make stars fall from heaven regardless of size and distance. Is this not true?
If you want to make an issue of size... larger things can fall on smaller things. Judges 16 tells us the Philistine temple fell on Samson. The temple is many times larger than Samson.
Are you applying your same 'Mathew 24:29 logic' to when Jesus fed the five thousand? Jesus had 5 loaves and 2 fish. So, according to your scriptural logic, the loaves and fish must be 500 pounds each to feed five thousand men, right? To you, the verse must insinuate the size of the loaves/fish? I should note, the three gospels do not write it was a miracle. Have you applied the same logic for the size of the loaves and fish as you are to the stars in Mathew 24:29? Or you being inconsistent because of the FE cult belief?
Also, as others have referenced, the stars, and them falling, are referenced as powers and angels in scripture. It may mean the falling of powers in the full Bible context.
Isaiah 14:12: How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
Ephesians 6:12: For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken."
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No worries - there are probably more things to add to your list...
If you can tell a really big lie, and get people to believe it - you can then tell even more lies because of it. And, that is the world we live in - lies on top of lies on top of lies.
Most people do not realize that - in spite of the pictures they have been shown - they have never actually seen distant galaxies, planets, etc. - all of that stuff is "made up" - what they see in the pictures is not real in terms of what they have been told that it is.
If you can tell a really big lie, and get people to believe it - you can then tell even more lies because of it. And, that is the world we live in - lies on top of lies on top of lies.
Most people do not realize that - in spite of the pictures they have been shown - they have never actually seen distant galaxies, planets, etc. - all of that stuff is "made up" - what they see in the pictures is not real in terms of what they have been told that it is.
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Christians today do not know the language of the prophets, when we get things like the sun moon and stars in the heavens, it is talking about political and religious powers. It is nothing to do with the shape of the Earth, nor its rotation.
I am not saying the Earth spins around the Sun though, not a single scientific experiment has ever proved this.
Dizzy (bitchute.com) these set of videos go through the Scientific experiments done to prove the rotation of the Earth. They all failed. So just because we are taught something is definitely true in this world, does not mean it is true.
I am not saying the Earth spins around the Sun though, not a single scientific experiment has ever proved this.
Dizzy (bitchute.com) these set of videos go through the Scientific experiments done to prove the rotation of the Earth. They all failed. So just because we are taught something is definitely true in this world, does not mean it is true.
I'm not going to address all of that nonsense. That's like comparing apples and skyscrapers. Obviously the whole point is being missed here. The reason for this proposition is the hope people will let God's creation speak for itself. If you must have me show you where the Bible 'says' the earth is flat, then I will have you show me where it 'says' it is a globe. The Bible doesn't 'say' the earth is flat, nor does it 'say' it is a globe. But a careful reading of the Word of God will show the inconsistencies there are between the Word and modern day so-called science. If you do not believe that the Word of God is superior to man's then this proposition isn't for you. You have no interest in the matter. But if you really do believe that the Word of God is superior to man's, then please explain to me how all of the stars in the heavens can fall 25 trillion miles to earth without pushing it out of orbit. If you cannot explain this to me, then the proposition still stands. It is NOT my responsibility to make the Bible harmonize with modern day so-called science. It is the responsibility for the "science" to prove it harmonizes with Scripture!
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When scripture tells us that stars will fall to the earth, common sense informs us of these two things:
1) the direction is defined as downward
2) the relative distance is small
An object may fall from a shelf to the floor. A person may fall from an airplane to the ground. But, you don't get into a spaceship and "fall" to the other side of the galaxy.
Stars don't "fall" to the earth from the far reaches of the universe.
1) the direction is defined as downward
2) the relative distance is small
An object may fall from a shelf to the floor. A person may fall from an airplane to the ground. But, you don't get into a spaceship and "fall" to the other side of the galaxy.
Stars don't "fall" to the earth from the far reaches of the universe.
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Either you want people to take (your interpretation of) Scripture OR accept evidence from the created world/universe. Proper interpretation starts with Scripture and allows evidence from creation to inform the conclusions drawn from Scripture. It is reasonable to change one’s conclusions where they are demonstrably incorrect.
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