Pentecostal view of the holy spirit.

As someone who grew up without a belief in tongues but who attended a Pentecostal college in addition to my older sister, there were indeed some who held the belief in tongues as a second level of the Holy Spirit's baptism to be expected for all if they progressed. Though they weren't pushy, they were open and honest about their beliefs and clarified at chapel one day that the belief wasn't that a person who doesn't speak in tongues isn't saved.

As for me and my family, we became aware of the continuation of gifts like tongues and prophecy via this school, for which I am extremely grateful, but after I didn't receive the gift of tongues as expected, I doubled down on my Bible study and found that the Bible speaks directly contrary to the suggestion that all are supposed to speak in tongues in both 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 (see below). For the record, God did eventually give me the gift of tongues with another fellowship because my whole prayer group asked Him to, but because of my other gifting I rarely have reason to use it, suggesting that God knew what He was doing with me in the first place.

From 1 Corinthians 12
From 1 Corinthians 14

Incorrect, whoever wants to know the truth for him/herself is responsible to prove it. It simply doesn't work the other way practically or morally. To expect the someone else to prove it to you is a "the world owes me a living" kind of logic that demands others give what they don't have enough resources to give, nor do they owe to you even if they have it.

"Them that believe" already know about "tongues" so no "sign. Them that believe not (as it was in Acts 2) were impressed that ignorant Galileans were speaking THER LANGUAGE = a sign.

It worked pretty well in acts 2

Chuckle!! it didn't work once, so, of course it NEVER works. One fellow in our church "put his hands on the TV" when Oral said to, and was instantly healed of crippling foot issues.

Of course not - it's only one of the spiritual gifts.

That plus conviction of SIN by the Holy Spirit can lead to repentance, and crying out in FAITH for salvation.

Paul agrees!!! He prayed with the "Understanding", and also "in the Spirit". God's not a "One trick Pony"

In particular you asked:
You are making it too black and white. No, preaching alone won't save those who are perishing, but preaching and miracles both have a necessary role in God calling those who are to be saved. Also, don't assume that because someone hasn't become a believer yet they "don't want the Cross."

In John 4, when Jesus was asked to perform a healing, he commented in verse 48 that
Paul made it pretty clear in 1 Corinthians 2:1-5 that demonstration of Holy Spirit's power is preferable or even essential, as opposed to offering mere words or logical arguments.
And even when there is a possibility of someone having enough experience of God to do better without further evidence, God doesn't necessarily write them off. Consider the well known incident with Thomas in John 20:24-29 and Jesus' comments thereafter:
But does any of this matter and apply today? Yes, very much so to my family. My brother-in-law is now walking with God in part because the gift of tongues was presented to him right when he was starting to lean toward atheism in his youth. It showed him that there was more to the claims of Christians than mere claims themselves. Since he wanted the truth, it showed him a path he needed to investigate.

Acts 8,10 and 19 you can use also as an proof/sign for the jews that the gospel is nt only gor thrm but also for the samaritians, the pagans and those who know only the baptism of John the Baptist.

Actually Acts 19 differs in that the experience can not be explained away as a one-time event that only happened to prove God's acceptance of specific groups of people. (Acts 2, 8, 10) It proves being indwelt with the Spirit with tongues is for all those who believe in Jesus. The Bible promises the Spirit to all believers, (John 7:38-39; Acts 11:15-17) and to all who ask. (Luke 11:13)

This is about as silly of a statement as I have ever seen. I am responsible to prove the truth of someone else's claim???
This is but mindless gobbledygook.

My reasoning is quite sound.

It is the same reasoning we all use everyday.

If someone knocks on your door and claims to be a police officer and wants to speak to you. Would you not expect him to prove his claim of authority? Of course you would. Right....?

If someone claimed that the Earth was flat would you simply accept the claim as true???

If he presented scripture to back up his claim, would you accept that the Earth is flat???

Is his scriptures enough for you to ignore the error of his reasoning.

Presenting scripture as evidence of the validity of a ongoing event is childish.

You seem to have forgotten everything else which Paul said. The Pentecostal theory is that ALL will speak in tongues (sooner or later). But Paul already refuted that by asking a rhetorical question: "Do all speak in tongues?" What he meant was "Obviously not".

There are two other things that Paul said: (1) he would rather prophesy any day than speak in tongues and (2) he would rather speak 5 words of prophecy than 10,000 words in tongues. OUCH! All of that effectively cancels modern tongues. Furthermore modern tongues are NOT biblical "tongues" (translate glossais as "languages").

What pentecostal "Theory" is that??? People are gifted according to how the Holy SPirit wants to use them in various situations. "Tongues" wouldn't be useful, where "Gifs of Healings" are needed.

And even though I have spoken in tongues for nigh onto 50 years I HAVE NEVER been burdened to deliver a message in a tongue public ally, so I'm one in the public context that "doesn't speak in tongues". Problem solved.

Personally I've been burdened to INTERPRET Tongues", and speak Prophetically on occasion, but NEVER to "Speak in tongues".

OF course!! Speaking prophetically is MUCH MORE EFFICIENT in terms of disseminating information - Context, context context!!!! 1 Cor 14 deals with public meeting procedures.

The implied problem is one of discipline, where people in meetings were "Showing off" in their "Private tongues" ("My gift is better than yours"), and NOT because they were Burdened to speak in the meeting. IF a person is burdened to speak in a tongue in a meeting, The Holy Spirit will have already lined up somebody (maybe the same person) to Speak the interpretation.

He also said "FORBID NOT" (1 Cor 14:39) which you apparently desire to do. Pentehostile paradigm in evidence.

In the Corinthian church, apparently the Tongues were NOT understood. Hoewever the Tongues were not criticized, only their application/use in meetings.

However, what has been reported from the field is:
>Tongues that NOBODY understands, accompanied by Interpretation (the most common in Pentecostal Churches). There was an interpreted message in our service yesterday.

>Tongues that ARE understood by individuals or groups, and sometimes accompanied by a matching Interpretation in the common tongue.

>Messages in the Common language, which are ALSO understood in one or more different languages by those hearing.

>And, of course Tongues spoken privately which is covered in 1 Car 14:4. You need to explain why self-edification is a BAD THING.

I always think of a "Hat trick" years ago in an Marion, Ohio FGBMFI dinner meeting:
There was utterance in a tongue.
The fellow to my left stood and began to interpret.
When he did, I was immediately burdened to interpret, and received the words to say (which is how interpretation works).
In mid message, the fellow on the Left stopped, and I immediately picked it up, and spoke the interpretation for 25-30 seconds, then my flow of words stopped, and so did I.
Then the fellow on my right immediately continued the interpretation to its conclusion.

Bottom line - The Holy Spirit Choreographs the manifestation of the gifts, so that one doesn't have to be concerned whether there's an Interpreter there before they speak what they're given.

AND, of course, Tongues, Prophesy, Word of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge, and Interpretation of tongues are essentially all the same gift, varying only in content. Same as Mat 10:19 when you're brought before magistrates or councils don't worry about what to say, because it'll be given to you as you need it.[/quote]

We do not know that spiritual gifts have ended. there are thousands if not millions who have experienced them, and books written about such experiences.

No, i do not agree. The tongues in 10 and 19 proves the jews that the gospel salvation is for all. Till this the jews believed Jesus came for them alone as Messaja. While Acts 8 (no tongue speaking report), 10 and 19 proofed that the Holy Spirit/Salvation came for all.
Samaritians, Pagans and those who knew only the baptism of John the Baptist.
This is what the text says.
The teaching that every believer who receives the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues is man made teaching. Not what God says!

If there was no discernable sign, how did the Samaritans know they had not received the Holy Ghost? (Acts 8) The other detailed conversion accounts reveal speaking in tongues was the sign that people were filled with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:2-4, 33, 10:43-48)

It was already established that Jews were accepted in Acts 2. The significance of the account that happened 20+ years after Pentecost, is that it confirms all believers regardless of nationality must submit to water baptism in the name of Jesus and receive the Holy Ghost just as they did at Pentecost. (Acts 19:1-7)

That's your response?

What about the space aliens, bigfoot and Loch Ness monsters?

Do you also accept the claims of the "thousands if not millions who have experienced these events and the books written about such experiences"?

Come on, is this really your reasoning?

Okay, well then prove that "He who claims is he who proves". If this is true then you will have no problem at all proving your claim, right?

Agreed???

But that is obvious, what is your point?

I see nothing in scripture that indicates a person can speak in the assembly in a tongue, and interpret it himself....
My reading of scripture shows that it specifically implies that someone else has to interpret.... otherwise, the speaker is not to speak.

The thing about "unknown tongues" is (conveniently) there's no way to prove or disprove it. When tongues first became a big thing in the early 20th century, the belief was that tongues were human languages that had not been previously learned, but were supernaturally imparted. However, when missionaries set out to demonstrate it by traveling to foreign lands to preach the gospel in the native tongues of the people, they fell flat; no one understood a word they said. It wasn't long after this they retooled and tongues became an unknown or angelic tongue. No one could say otherwise because how could they?

To me this is the most clear and convincing evidence that ecstatic utterances are not the real thing.

1 Cor 14:13

Got it.... I stand corrected. Just shows that no matter how many times you read something, there is value in re-reading...