Major faith roadblock

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,506
1,126
113
#21
Hi Karlon,

I thought I was born again. There have been times in my life where I have been more devout, and times that I was less so. I would pray and say that if nothing else, I want my life to stand for gratitude. I could even stand there at the end of the world with flaming meteors crashing down around me and still I would boldly proclaim that God was good to me when I didn't deserve it and I am proclaiming that now as a testimony of His goodness.

I know, a little dramatic, I admit. But that is how I felt about it. I had this idea that I would create a prayer list, to make sure I covered all the bases when I prayed. On this list were three thorns. Other items came and went but those thorns persisted. Eventually I started focusing on those thorns and wondering why? And why I, as a believer, couldn't get any movent on them.

Then I started to question if I was even being heard at all. The more time went on the more I started questioning my relationship with God. I even posted on this site asking how can I even know if I am really saved? Lot of very generous responses and yet, still nothing changed.

It has come to a point where it is destroying my faith. I can't believe I am heard and that brings my whole belief system and previous assumptions in question. Why would God lead me to the exit door? I don't understand that. Unless I was wrong all along. Which wouldn't be the first time.
kindly, i say this: i don't think you are a born again Christian because no b.a. Christian says: "i THOUGHT i was born again". all b.a. Christians TOTALLY know they are b.a. there is overwhelming evidence in this every day. how you can know you are saved is in 1st John 5:13- "these things have I written to you that believe in the name of the Son of God, that YOU MAY KNOW you have eternal life & that you may believe on the name of the Son of God"! when we walk in the Spirit, constantly trust Jesus, do His will, & especially OBEY HIM, pray & praise Him, you "sense" the presence of Jesus. the devil has you right where he wants you, it seems. all b.a. Christians can cast out the devil. in fact, the devil has no power against the believer unless the believer lets him.
 
Oct 16, 2023
36
9
8
#22
kindly, i say this: i don't think you are a born again Christian because no b.a. Christian says: "i THOUGHT i was born again". all b.a. Christians TOTALLY know they are b.a. there is overwhelming evidence in this every day. how you can know you are saved is in 1st John 5:13- "these things have I written to you that believe in the name of the Son of God, that YOU MAY KNOW you have eternal life & that you may believe on the name of the Son of God"! when we walk in the Spirit, constantly trust Jesus, do His will, & especially OBEY HIM, pray & praise Him, you "sense" the presence of Jesus. the devil has you right where he wants you, it seems. all b.a. Christians can cast out the devil. in fact, the devil has no power against the believer unless the believer lets him.
Thanks Karlon,

I'm pretty sure I am not the first person to have doubts. Was it Isaiah or Jeremiah who proclaimed how stupid people were who believed in gods made of wood or stone. Dead gods that had no power to answer their prayers.

But what if prayer to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is found to be powerless? Doesn't that say the same thing?

I'm not even going that far. I want to believe. I am just finding it awfully hard to get past the obvious contradiction.
 
Oct 16, 2023
36
9
8
#23
Outlander,
I was over 40yrs old before I became a believer!
I began going to church simply because my wife was a Christian. It was simply to support her and for no other reason.
I had absolutely no expectations for myself. Believe me when I tell you that I sat in church for almost 2 years, looking at everyone around me and wondering why they were so strong in faith – yet I could not ever see myself having such faith.
I now know that my main problem was that of assurance! I knew that I was a sinner, had been all my life, and could not believe that a just and merciful God could ever forgive me. But, thankfully I eventually overcame this and understood that God can indeed forgive anyone!
I hear the same doubt in you voice. The doubt is usually brought on by some sin in our life that is persistent and hard to overcome. Then Satan appears and tells you that you are not worthy.
Listen to me when I tell you that no one is worthy of God's blessings, and no one will become a perfect saint in this lifetime.
The very fact that you claim to have a thorn that is troubling you speaks well for your relationship with God. Seal this truth in your heart and pray that the thorn will be removed, but understand that it may remain. God does not take every thorn away! Sometimes He leaves a few behind to remind you that you need Him, but that does not mean that you are unforgiven!
Thanks BillyBob,

I appreciate your positive and uplifting thoughts on this. You are very perceptive. I was watching the Chosen. I do not get my biblical education from a TV show, however I struck by Jesus not raising Ramah, and choosing not to heal Little James. I admit, I can relate to their troubles.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,506
1,126
113
#24
Thanks Karlon,

I'm pretty sure I am not the first person to have doubts. Was it Isaiah or Jeremiah who proclaimed how stupid people were who believed in gods made of wood or stone. Dead gods that had no power to answer their prayers.

But what if prayer to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is found to be powerless? Doesn't that say the same thing?

I'm not even going that far. I want to believe. I am just finding it awfully hard to get past the obvious contradiction.
i don't know about the Isaiah-Jereamiah issue. prayer to God, Jesus & the H.S. is impossible to be powerless. study Psalm 34:15 "......ears are open to our cries"! there aren't any contradictions, impossible!!! maybe that is your dilemma.
 

Marilyn

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2021
1,120
244
63
#25
I believed in God before I knew what religion was and have considered myself a Christian, although reading but not Church going, for most of my life. Finally a church going Christian for years...but...

I am at a major faith roadblock.

I have been praying over some critical life issues for years. I won't go into the exact issues because that is irrelevant. The only answer or result to my prayer efforts has been nothing, silence, no change, no intuitions, no gut feelings or signs, just absolute nothingness.

This has shaken my faith. It is clear there is a creator. And possible I misunderstand scripture. For example, Christ talking about moving mountains may only be intended for the apostles in their mission to grow the church. Christs prayer example asks for daily bread, not help in life's big problems, or struggling with sin, or anything else.

However, it seems like there are many passages that promote the power of prayer. For example:

Philippians 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Mark 11:24 - Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Matthew 6:6 - But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

I am painfully aware of all the "excuses" people make for God not answering prayers but honestly, I don't think an all powerful God should need people to make excuses for Him.

I see only a few possibilities here.

1. Regardless of what I may have thought, I am not one of His people and therefore not listened to, or cared about at all. I am merely a fish in this aquarium called earth. I exist for a while, then gone for ever. Temporarily animated dirt that only existed for a time to add a little more depth and background to His great narrative, and nothing more

2. The bible is not inerrant and is wrong. God exists, the bible is a good effort at understanding God, but it is fiction. Perhaps highly valuable fiction but fiction none the less.

3. Another that I loath to believe but seems plausible. People pop into existence by an automated process He created. With a few possible exceptions, He doesn't especially care much for some or even most of us. I am certainly not the only person who feels like I am standing in the bottom of a well shouting towards the little opening hoping someone will hear and throw down a rope but it never comes. It is rational to come to the conclusion that nobody is up there. Nobody hears your shouts. Nobody is there. It is contradictory to think God "wants" you to believe and pray to an absolute zero feedback loop. Especially when it contradicts scripture.

This got me thinking, when people pray for a child who is perishing from a fatal illness, does healing ever come? Ever? or is is 1 out a 1,000? 1 out of 10,000? This is a million times more important that my problems and inflicted on innocents. Children who are supposedly especially loved. If their prayers cannot be answered, what hope is there for any of my prayers to be answered? None.

When I close my eyes and in the quiet and darkness call to the Holy Spirit, listening intently, waiting for His spirit to draw near, I can detect nothing other that perhaps a feeling that I now question isn't just my imagination.

I miss my friend. My friend who I can reveal my deepest feelings to. My friend whom I have been speaking too all my life only to realize I have only been speaking to myself because I am the only one who is there.
Hi Outlander,

That would be a very difficult time for you. Now, the main reason I see is that you do not understand God`s character and His purposes. You, (as many people) are reading God`s word as all about yourself instead of about it revealing Christ, His character and His purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the Nations.

When Jesus was manifest on earth He came as Israel`s king, their Messiah. He proved this by many miracles, authority over demons etc. He was showing that His rule was already there if they would accept Him. We know they didn`t.

As to us in the Body of Christ, He is our Head, our Saviour and Lord. His purpose for us in NOT earthly but for heaven. We are to overcome our fleshly desires, the world`s system of self, and the enemy`s tricks. And a big trick is deceiving us by discouraging us and to make us think God does not care about us.

We put our health as the top priority whereas God has our eternal salvation as top. Yes, we go through pain and suffering, (as written in God`s word especially Paul). Jesus knew pain, suffering and torture. He knows what we go through however it is up to us to trust Him and ask for His comfort, His guidance as we go through this damaged life.

This life is damaged and all in it. That should humble us and be content that we have a blessed hope, and not just the grave.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,581
3,616
113
#26
I believed in God before I knew what religion was and have considered myself a Christian, although reading but not Church going, for most of my life. Finally a church going Christian for years...but...

I am at a major faith roadblock.

I have been praying over some critical life issues for years. I won't go into the exact issues because that is irrelevant. The only answer or result to my prayer efforts has been nothing, silence, no change, no intuitions, no gut feelings or signs, just absolute nothingness.

This has shaken my faith. It is clear there is a creator. And possible I misunderstand scripture. For example, Christ talking about moving mountains may only be intended for the apostles in their mission to grow the church. Christs prayer example asks for daily bread, not help in life's big problems, or struggling with sin, or anything else.

However, it seems like there are many passages that promote the power of prayer. For example:

Philippians 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Mark 11:24 - Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Matthew 6:6 - But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

I am painfully aware of all the "excuses" people make for God not answering prayers but honestly, I don't think an all powerful God should need people to make excuses for Him.

I see only a few possibilities here.

1. Regardless of what I may have thought, I am not one of His people and therefore not listened to, or cared about at all. I am merely a fish in this aquarium called earth. I exist for a while, then gone for ever. Temporarily animated dirt that only existed for a time to add a little more depth and background to His great narrative, and nothing more

2. The bible is not inerrant and is wrong. God exists, the bible is a good effort at understanding God, but it is fiction. Perhaps highly valuable fiction but fiction none the less.

3. Another that I loath to believe but seems plausible. People pop into existence by an automated process He created. With a few possible exceptions, He doesn't especially care much for some or even most of us. I am certainly not the only person who feels like I am standing in the bottom of a well shouting towards the little opening hoping someone will hear and throw down a rope but it never comes. It is rational to come to the conclusion that nobody is up there. Nobody hears your shouts. Nobody is there. It is contradictory to think God "wants" you to believe and pray to an absolute zero feedback loop. Especially when it contradicts scripture.

This got me thinking, when people pray for a child who is perishing from a fatal illness, does healing ever come? Ever? or is is 1 out a 1,000? 1 out of 10,000? This is a million times more important that my problems and inflicted on innocents. Children who are supposedly especially loved. If their prayers cannot be answered, what hope is there for any of my prayers to be answered? None.

When I close my eyes and in the quiet and darkness call to the Holy Spirit, listening intently, waiting for His spirit to draw near, I can detect nothing other that perhaps a feeling that I now question isn't just my imagination.

I miss my friend. My friend who I can reveal my deepest feelings to. My friend whom I have been speaking too all my life only to realize I have only been speaking to myself because I am the only one who is there.
When God does not grant my prayers i simply take it as a NO answer from God.. I trust in the Wisdom of God So i trust that His NO has a valid reason.. God is all knowing and knows all the thoughts of all people so God even knows the thoughts of anti-christs, So for me it is clear that The LORD Hears my prayers, Always.. I have never allowed Gods response to my prayers to cause me to doubt Him and His perfect wisdom.. Also i never trust in ""feelings"" or the Holy Spirit coming near me.. I trust in the Word of God that it is truth and good.. Trustubg in feelings is a sure fire way to end up having doubts and turmoil in ones heart..
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
6,656
113
#27
amen!

one needs to trust God if prayers are answered or not.

remember, Paul said he prayed 3 times for his thorn in the flesh to be taken away. God told him " My Grace is sufficient for you, My power is made perfect in your weakness.."
 

Ballaurena

Well-known member
May 27, 2024
415
273
63
#28
When God does not grant my prayers i simply take it as a NO answer from God.. I trust in the Wisdom of God So i trust that His NO has a valid reason.. God is all knowing and knows all the thoughts of all people so God even knows the thoughts of anti-christs, So for me it is clear that The LORD Hears my prayers, Always.. I have never allowed Gods response to my prayers to cause me to doubt Him and His perfect wisdom.. Also i never trust in ""feelings"" or the Holy Spirit coming near me.. I trust in the Word of God that it is truth and good.. Trustubg in feelings is a sure fire way to end up having doubts and turmoil in ones heart..
I agree on the first part and was actually here to give you a thumbs up till I read the second part and had some concerns.

The word 'feelings' causes a lot of trouble in spiritual discussions because it has a wide range of meanings that get jumbled together. You can feel happy. You can feel fearful. You can feel tired. You can feel a literal knife in your back. There is a wide range of reliability in different types of 'feelings.' Jesus could 'feel' that power had gone out of him and knew that someone had touched him beyond a normal bump of the crowd. Clearly some 'feelings' should be trusted or Jesus would have been in error.

That said, there is definitely a problem with people who judge the spirit by EMOTIONAL feelings alone, or even pleasure/pain responses alone. God can do things to make you happy. God can do things that make you sad. A fruit of the spirit is joy. Paul spoke of sorrowing unto repentance. Satan can do things that make you feel happy. Satan can do things that make you feel sad. Usually there it is a matter of how long it takes for the consequences to catch-up with you. Discernment requires more than these, but spiritual discernment can involve 'feeling' the spiritual source of something definitively. 'Feeling' pride or fear on someone, for example, is always of Satan. Real love and peace are always of God and we can learn to discern those kinds of 'feelings' and should.
 

rrcn

Active member
Oct 15, 2023
428
136
43
#29
In my younger days I was tasked with troubleshooting and repairing extensive industrial safety interlock systems. I learned the hard way that after you dive into all of the plausible and complicated explanations for the malfunctions with no positive results you look instead for a simple explanation:

Have you been baptized?
[Mar 16:16 NKJV] 16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
[Act 2:38 NKJV] 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism seems to be a simple* thing that could easily be overlooked, however in addition to being an established ordinance of the church it is prescribed as a solution to the problem you are describing. The referenced passage does not describe Christian baptism, it does however emphasis my point.

*Please take a look at 2 Kings 5: 1 - 19 when you have a moment, the point is:
[2Ki 5:13-14 NKJV] 13 And his servants came near and spoke to him, and said, "My father, [if] the prophet had told you [to do] something great, would you not have done [it]? How much more then, when he says to you, 'Wash, and be clean'?" 14 So he went down and dipped seven times in the Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,896
6,491
113
62
#30
I believed in God before I knew what religion was and have considered myself a Christian, although reading but not Church going, for most of my life. Finally a church going Christian for years...but...

I am at a major faith roadblock.

I have been praying over some critical life issues for years. I won't go into the exact issues because that is irrelevant. The only answer or result to my prayer efforts has been nothing, silence, no change, no intuitions, no gut feelings or signs, just absolute nothingness.

This has shaken my faith. It is clear there is a creator. And possible I misunderstand scripture. For example, Christ talking about moving mountains may only be intended for the apostles in their mission to grow the church. Christs prayer example asks for daily bread, not help in life's big problems, or struggling with sin, or anything else.

However, it seems like there are many passages that promote the power of prayer. For example:

Philippians 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Mark 11:24 - Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Matthew 6:6 - But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

I am painfully aware of all the "excuses" people make for God not answering prayers but honestly, I don't think an all powerful God should need people to make excuses for Him.

I see only a few possibilities here.

1. Regardless of what I may have thought, I am not one of His people and therefore not listened to, or cared about at all. I am merely a fish in this aquarium called earth. I exist for a while, then gone for ever. Temporarily animated dirt that only existed for a time to add a little more depth and background to His great narrative, and nothing more

2. The bible is not inerrant and is wrong. God exists, the bible is a good effort at understanding God, but it is fiction. Perhaps highly valuable fiction but fiction none the less.

3. Another that I loath to believe but seems plausible. People pop into existence by an automated process He created. With a few possible exceptions, He doesn't especially care much for some or even most of us. I am certainly not the only person who feels like I am standing in the bottom of a well shouting towards the little opening hoping someone will hear and throw down a rope but it never comes. It is rational to come to the conclusion that nobody is up there. Nobody hears your shouts. Nobody is there. It is contradictory to think God "wants" you to believe and pray to an absolute zero feedback loop. Especially when it contradicts scripture.

This got me thinking, when people pray for a child who is perishing from a fatal illness, does healing ever come? Ever? or is is 1 out a 1,000? 1 out of 10,000? This is a million times more important that my problems and inflicted on innocents. Children who are supposedly especially loved. If their prayers cannot be answered, what hope is there for any of my prayers to be answered? None.

When I close my eyes and in the quiet and darkness call to the Holy Spirit, listening intently, waiting for His spirit to draw near, I can detect nothing other that perhaps a feeling that I now question isn't just my imagination.

I miss my friend. My friend who I can reveal my deepest feelings to. My friend whom I have been speaking too all my life only to realize I have only been speaking to myself because I am the only one who is there.
The season you are going through is one of the most difficult for any Christian, but it is a very necessary season for us all. In 2 Chronicles 32:31, the Lord left Hezekiah that he might might know all that was in his heart. As hard as it is for us to admit, our hearts are not as clean as we would like to believe. We have a great deal of uncleanness, unforgiveness, and bitterness. By separating from us, it is God's desire to discover to us ALL that is there. In this, we come to understand our utter helpless estate before God and longings and affections will develop in our hearts that will cause us to seek after Him with our whole heart. And when we do, we shall surely find Him.
JohnPiper wrote something like this...brokenness is when you realize that all there really is is God. Peace comes when you realize all that you need is God. And joy comes when you realize all you want is God.
Don't give up. You've certainly found brokenness. God has brought you to this point that you might know peace and joy.
Praying for you.
 
Oct 16, 2023
36
9
8
#31
In my younger days I was tasked with troubleshooting and repairing extensive industrial safety interlock systems. I learned the hard way that after you dive into all of the plausible and complicated explanations for the malfunctions with no positive results you look instead for a simple explanation:

Have you been baptized?
[Mar 16:16 NKJV] 16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
[Act 2:38 NKJV] 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism seems to be a simple* thing that could easily be overlooked, however in addition to being an established ordinance of the church it is prescribed as a solution to the problem you are describing. The referenced passage does not describe Christian baptism, it does however emphasis my point.

*Please take a look at 2 Kings 5: 1 - 19 when you have a moment, the point is:
[2Ki 5:13-14 NKJV] 13 And his servants came near and spoke to him, and said, "My father, [if] the prophet had told you [to do] something great, would you not have done [it]? How much more then, when he says to you, 'Wash, and be clean'?" 14 So he went down and dipped seven times in the Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.
Thank you, I have not been baptized. I thought the necessity for that was gone after the crucifixion and we only do it now out of tradition but if you think it will help, and is something important that I am missing in my faith journey, I am very open minded to it.
 
Oct 16, 2023
36
9
8
#32
The season you are going through is one of the most difficult for any Christian, but it is a very necessary season for us all. In 2 Chronicles 32:31, the Lord left Hezekiah that he might might know all that was in his heart. As hard as it is for us to admit, our hearts are not as clean as we would like to believe. We have a great deal of uncleanness, unforgiveness, and bitterness. By separating from us, it is God's desire to discover to us ALL that is there. In this, we come to understand our utter helpless estate before God and longings and affections will develop in our hearts that will cause us to seek after Him with our whole heart. And when we do, we shall surely find Him.
JohnPiper wrote something like this...brokenness is when you realize that all there really is is God. Peace comes when you realize all that you need is God. And joy comes when you realize all you want is God.
Don't give up. You've certainly found brokenness. God has brought you to this point that you might know peace and joy.
Praying for you.
Thank you Cameron, for this thoughtful and uplifting message!
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,198
1,601
113
Midwest
#33
@Outlander has a "faith roadblock" contradiction?:
Precious friend, I will pray for you; please be Very Richly Encouraged and
Edified In The Lord Jesus Christ, and In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided:

Prophecy/Law, For Israel
a) Taught how/what to pray! (Matthew_6:9; Luke_11:2 AV)

b) "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing,
ye shall receive." (Matthew_21:22; John_16:24 AV)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!(online):

Mystery/GRACE! For Today's Body Of Christ:

we Are Exhorted to "...Make our requests known Unto God!"
(Philippians_4:6 AV) While, At The Same Time, God "Teaches":

Concerning our infirmities, we "know Not what to pray as we ought,"
But: "The Spirit Intercedeth For us, According To The Will Of God!..."
(Romans_8:26 AV)
+
God's Grace Word for our infirmities!
+
One Baptism!

Hope these will be helpful in the rest of your "Grace walk" on earth...

Amen.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,772
623
113
#34
Hello, I am not here to give you any answers only what I personally know and have experienced. You said "I have been praying over some critical life issues for years. I won't go into the exact issues because that is irrelevant. The only answer or result to my prayer efforts has been nothing, silence, no change, no intuitions, no gut feelings or signs, just absolute nothingness."

Personallly.. I walk by faith not what I see happening around me as in what is happening in other believers life nor do I play games when it comes to say doctrines as in what some Baptist believe all the way to Word of faith. They are family I will only speak words of life never negative about anyone. What I do and say and hear and watch all have a part in getting that answer from God. Faith.. if God said it you never give it another thought. I find what He said in His word and just know that I know that I know He will do it for He can not lie. One time it was very late dark I was walking back to my car and He said "RUN". My first thought was run why I'm not scared. Do you know He said back? "When God tells you to do something you do not question it you just do it". I smiled and said "yes sir" More to that story but do you see?

We have His word do you just do it as in you know you never even doubt what He said you know He will do it? We question His word so much we debate (I don't any more) it. He said if we know He hears us then we know we have the petitions/prayers we asked for. It also says "if we doubt let not that man think he will get anything from God". Psa 91 GOD said that and its for every believer who is originally of the vine and those grafted in. As Isaac was we are the children of promise. Promise... yeah those are yes and amen. This not about anyone else but what God said. See you have not because you ask not or your asking wrong. Wrong as in.. ooh I need a new car a new house so forth so on. No those are just personal things that help the flesh. A new car is just a way to get to work because you have no way. New as in.. you never had one so you ask the Father quoting what He said . any need you have you find what He said and you stand on that. So what happens is . someone hears about some old car they had or don't need and you have the money for that. Or you see a add where someone is not sure why but they are selling it so cheap.

That happens. I had to hitch hike over 200 miles.. I just got out there this car pulls up I get in lol praise GOD this is what the man said "you know I don't know why I picked you up I never pick up hitch hikers". Like I was born in Spokane Wa and I heard of a school in Oklahoma. I love music the band member said it was a great school. They knew faith. I had this thought to go say good by to a very dear friend who just happen to know two people leaving the same time to Oklahoma. Yeah.. luck? Haha no praise GOD. So as we were just getting in to Oklahoma the driver said she knew someone that went to Oral Roberts UNIV that I might be able to stay with but didn't know where the school was. At the same exact time we notice this car behind us the driver keeps pointing up over and over. So we pull over to this "info Stand" its what it was called. That car pulls up he gets out comes over and I quote "God told me you don't know how to get to Oral Roberts UNIV and I am to show you the way".. YES.. man that happen to me.. and still blows me away praise GOD.

I could go on and on and on. See I look back and what did I do? I Just believed never ever giving it another thought. See we ask for things but we tend to put GOD on some time clock very very unwise. We tend to look at others to see how GOD works. Not that long ago I wanted to help my wifes faith yet I think it was for me. So I asked for something impossible to answer.. so fast I thought. I started to pray and for the first time.. I stopped in the middle of asking and said "wait you already know what I was going to ask you already set in motion that answer" I've never had that happen like that. This prayer real people had a free choice yet .. it would have taken days.. yet answered in 10min. OH just... wow.

I could go on but .. when was like 12 or so 63 now.. I always still do but ask to see people through His eyes. He did answer that but 15 years later. We don't stop.. we stand and when done all we stand. See ever experince I have ever had .. is oh praise GOD glory glory glory to Jesus but I do not look to those I look to His word and I stand on HIs word. Doubt hits me sickness hits this body like anyone else yet I KNOW who I am I know who my Father is I know what He said so no matter what I see no matter what I hear I stand on His word and He never once .. ask Him if I am lying or misleading or not sharing exactly what has happened. I have lived this 55y plus.

See know He heard you.. know He did answer.. Even when Daniel prayed God answered the moment he prayed but it took him 21 days to get the answer and GOD does not see Daniel any better then He sees you. You are His.. He loves you.. find what He said and stand on His word. Start small if you never have like with fear.. NO God has not given me the spirit of fear but of power love and a sound mind.. ooh sound mind! That's for someone. You say.. I resist you in Jesus name and you have to flee. It might take a day or weeks but at some point ... it will hit you.. wow its just gone! You are not of this world.. this world is not your home.. you are a new creation ..sorry I went on so long.. I am very sorry I am no speaker and it can be hard to understand me I pray what is of Him stands out and shines. Just make sure its written. Even after all these years.. just what 2-3 months ago He said "don't entertain doubt" I put that in google the 1st thing comes up is james 1 6
 

rrcn

Active member
Oct 15, 2023
428
136
43
#35
Thank you, I have not been baptized. I thought the necessity for that was gone after the crucifixion and we only do it now out of tradition but if you think it will help, and is something important that I am missing in my faith journey, I am very open minded to it.
The conversion of Paul was after the resurrection:
[Act 9:17-18 KJV] 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,100
180
63
#36
I believed in God before I knew what religion was and have considered myself a Christian, although reading but not Church going, for most of my life. Finally a church going Christian for years...but...

I am at a major faith roadblock.

I have been praying over some critical life issues for years. I won't go into the exact issues because that is irrelevant. The only answer or result to my prayer efforts has been nothing, silence, no change, no intuitions, no gut feelings or signs, just absolute nothingness.

This has shaken my faith. It is clear there is a creator. And possible I misunderstand scripture. For example, Christ talking about moving mountains may only be intended for the apostles in their mission to grow the church. Christs prayer example asks for daily bread, not help in life's big problems, or struggling with sin, or anything else.

However, it seems like there are many passages that promote the power of prayer. For example:

Philippians 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Mark 11:24 - Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Matthew 6:6 - But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

I am painfully aware of all the "excuses" people make for God not answering prayers but honestly, I don't think an all powerful God should need people to make excuses for Him.

I see only a few possibilities here.

1. Regardless of what I may have thought, I am not one of His people and therefore not listened to, or cared about at all. I am merely a fish in this aquarium called earth. I exist for a while, then gone for ever. Temporarily animated dirt that only existed for a time to add a little more depth and background to His great narrative, and nothing more

2. The bible is not inerrant and is wrong. God exists, the bible is a good effort at understanding God, but it is fiction. Perhaps highly valuable fiction but fiction none the less.

3. Another that I loath to believe but seems plausible. People pop into existence by an automated process He created. With a few possible exceptions, He doesn't especially care much for some or even most of us. I am certainly not the only person who feels like I am standing in the bottom of a well shouting towards the little opening hoping someone will hear and throw down a rope but it never comes. It is rational to come to the conclusion that nobody is up there. Nobody hears your shouts. Nobody is there. It is contradictory to think God "wants" you to believe and pray to an absolute zero feedback loop. Especially when it contradicts scripture.

This got me thinking, when people pray for a child who is perishing from a fatal illness, does healing ever come? Ever? or is is 1 out a 1,000? 1 out of 10,000? This is a million times more important that my problems and inflicted on innocents. Children who are supposedly especially loved. If their prayers cannot be answered, what hope is there for any of my prayers to be answered? None.

When I close my eyes and in the quiet and darkness call to the Holy Spirit, listening intently, waiting for His spirit to draw near, I can detect nothing other that perhaps a feeling that I now question isn't just my imagination.

I miss my friend. My friend who I can reveal my deepest feelings to. My friend whom I have been speaking too all my life only to realize I have only been speaking to myself because I am the only one who is there.
Years ago I met a man who told me he was an ordained Baptist minister, both he and his wife. That is, however, as I stated above, he was, until he died three times.
He died for 15 minutes two times, and an hour and 15 minutes or an hour and a half the other time.
He stopped believing in God after that because, he only saw blackness, he said.
He went on to tell me, with all certainty and backed by his experience, that I really didn't know if there was a god.
I wasn't moved by this man's testimony, or possible experience, because I really did know and still do to this day, that God is real, alive, and does answer prayers.
You're being like this man, who believed what he experienced over what is written in the Bible. And this guy was very knowledgeable of what was written.
Are you familiar with the parable of the sower sowing seeds?

KJV+ King James Version
Luk 8:5-13: "A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit a hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root (in their heart), which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fell away.

That describes you. It also shows, the devil is no pushover, and the reason why the child of God has to fight the good fight of faith through spiritual warfare.
One of your many issues concerning your believing or or lack thereof, is the fact that the word of God did not take root in your heart. And the reason for that is because you are looking at everything in the natural world, rather than focusing on the promises of God.
And I hate to be the one to break this to you, but one of the main reasons why you're not getting anywhere is because you have zero faith. And so I ask, how do you expect to get anywhere with God with no faith in him to do what he said he would do in his word?
Like most here on CC, you have no clue what faith is or how it works. And if you don't know how Faith works, then you don't know how the kingdom of God works.
You can turn all of that around if you want, but it will take some serious work and effort on your part.
One more thing.
One does not go to the simple to receive wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, or to the sick to get healed, or to the possessed to get delivered, or to the poor on how to get wealth, nor to the doubter to get Faith, nor to the hateful to get love, nor to the negative whiners to get encouragement or to be lifted up, and so on. You get the point.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
904
185
43
67
Australia
#37
It was an idiom. I'm not waiting for a check. I'm not dictating a solution and waiting for that solution. I have been waiting for a response to prayer for a very long time and coming to the conclusion that a response isn't coming. I am therefore trying to understand how that affects my understanding of God and my relationship with God. Is God refusing to respond or am I wrong to expect that a response is coming? How does the answer to these question affect my assumption that the bible is inerrant? Do I need to reassess?
Moses waited 40 years before he was ready to lead the people out of Egypt. Joshua and Caleb waited 40 years before they could enter the promised land. There is a reason to waiting no matter how long it takes.

Basically you have a choice as we all do, believe your thoughts or believe the word of God.

I had to wait 30 years for God to answer one of my prayers.

You will trust Him or you won't, your choice. Is it easy when you're hurting? No it isn't, but it doesn't change what must be done.

As long as you are relying on what you think or how you feel? You will go nowhere. God doesn't want you relying on yourself but on Him.

I may sound unsympathetic to your cause but I have suffered too so I know the struggle to trust someone when everything within and without seems to yell at you not to trust. You are not alone.

I will keep you in my prayers.
 
Oct 16, 2023
36
9
8
#38
Years ago I met a man who told me he was an ordained Baptist minister, both he and his wife. That is, however, as I stated above, he was, until he died three times.
He died for 15 minutes two times, and an hour and 15 minutes or an hour and a half the other time.
He stopped believing in God after that because, he only saw blackness, he said.
He went on to tell me, with all certainty and backed by his experience, that I really didn't know if there was a god.
I wasn't moved by this man's testimony, or possible experience, because I really did know and still do to this day, that God is real, alive, and does answer prayers.
You're being like this man, who believed what he experienced over what is written in the Bible. And this guy was very knowledgeable of what was written.
Are you familiar with the parable of the sower sowing seeds?

KJV+ King James Version
Luk 8:5-13: "A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit a hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root (in their heart), which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fell away.

That describes you. It also shows, the devil is no pushover, and the reason why the child of God has to fight the good fight of faith through spiritual warfare.
One of your many issues concerning your believing or or lack thereof, is the fact that the word of God did not take root in your heart. And the reason for that is because you are looking at everything in the natural world, rather than focusing on the promises of God.
And I hate to be the one to break this to you, but one of the main reasons why you're not getting anywhere is because you have zero faith. And so I ask, how do you expect to get anywhere with God with no faith in him to do what he said he would do in his word?
Like most here on CC, you have no clue what faith is or how it works. And if you don't know how Faith works, then you don't know how the kingdom of God works.
You can turn all of that around if you want, but it will take some serious work and effort on your part.
One more thing.
One does not go to the simple to receive wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, or to the sick to get healed, or to the possessed to get delivered, or to the poor on how to get wealth, nor to the doubter to get Faith, nor to the hateful to get love, nor to the negative whiners to get encouragement or to be lifted up, and so on. You get the point.
You are quick to judge and I don't think you read my full post. I believed as a child before I knew what "religion" was. Then I sought out the word and I believed. Then I sought out fellowship and community and church and community worship and I believed.

I believed until I came to realise that my most critical, most important prayers went unanswered for years. So I assumed the problem was not God, but was me. I posted on this forum asking how can I know if I was saved? I thought I was saved but I must have been wrong.

I believed, asked forgiveness, offered myself to Jesus, etc, but nothing changed. So I assumed I was just not invited to the party. I must not be in the book of life and there's nothing I can do about it. Except that contradicts my understanding of scripture.

So I thought perhaps my understanding of prayer was the issue. This seemed logical. Not all scripture is addressing the same audience and perhaps if I go back and take a new look I will realize where I got it wrong.

Unfortunately, many things I read contradicted my experience. Ask in the name of Jesus and believe and your prayers would be answered.

I read many articles on why God may not be answering prayers. I was careful to express a problem but ask that the problem be solved acording to God's will. No change.

I asked for understand regarding my prayers. No change.

I asked to be led to understanding of this problem. No change.

I used to talk to God a lot. Every single day. In the dark, eyes closed. Kneeling in prayer. In the car, etc. I felt close to God like He was there and I could tell Him anything.

Now I feel like it was wishful thinking. Nobody is there. Nobody is listening. I didn't come to this place easily, or quickly, and I hate it. I want to believe. I want it to be true. But I cannot get past the fact that my prayers are not heard or addressed in direct contradiction to what is promised in scripture. This has me at a point of crisis where everything I believed has been called into question.

Why would God lead me here?

I still believe in a creator. Anyone who claims there is no creator when we are surrounded on all sides by engineering that can only be accomished by a profoundly intelligent mind with the capability to implement and execute on that engineering is in denial of the obvious.

Understanding anything about that creator is the challange.

The Judeo-Christian religion is the only religion that rises to the level of being able to provide real answers to the big questions.

But is it just the greatest collection of fiction ever compiled, or is it the inerrant word of God?

The failure of prayer calls into question the bibles inerrancy. It cannot be true and not live up to its promises at the same time.

Hence my faith roadblock. I love so many of the wonderful responses by so many people here. People who understand the struggle and care and offer advice based on their own struggles.

God doesn't owe me anything. He could wipe me out anytime He wants. He can cast me into in a lake of fire, or smash me like a clay pot. What am I to Him? He is eternal and all powerful while I am animated dirt.

But if the Bible is truly His inerrant word then He would adhere to His own promises. If it is humans putting words into His mouth He has no obligation to live up to those promises.

According to my understanding of scripture, it is promises unfulfilled. An all powerful God should not need people to make excuses for why He doesn't live up to promises made in His name over 2 thousand years ago. If they were His words, they would be 100% without error and as real and reliable as the morning and the night.

But that has not been my experience.

I used to pray that I wanted my life to be a testimony of gratitude to Him. I believed that would be the one thing that I could give to God that could possibly have some small value to Him.

Now that has been destroyed. Do you know how disturbing that is?

This isn't faithlessness, or pompousness, or a rotten attitude. I am not here as an atheist trying to mock people for their belief. It is an existential crisis.

I came seeking answers to questions that may be unanswerable but I am listening. I am reading every post with an open mind and looking for alternatives to the path I regrettably find myself on.
 
Oct 16, 2023
36
9
8
#39
Moses waited 40 years before he was ready to lead the people out of Egypt. Joshua and Caleb waited 40 years before they could enter the promised land. There is a reason to waiting no matter how long it takes.

Basically you have a choice as we all do, believe your thoughts or believe the word of God.

I had to wait 30 years for God to answer one of my prayers.

You will trust Him or you won't, your choice. Is it easy when you're hurting? No it isn't, but it doesn't change what must be done.

As long as you are relying on what you think or how you feel? You will go nowhere. God doesn't want you relying on yourself but on Him.

I may sound unsympathetic to your cause but I have suffered too so I know the struggle to trust someone when everything within and without seems to yell at you not to trust. You are not alone.

I will keep you in my prayers.
Thanks Sawdust. I appreciate your straight forwardness. And thank you for your prayers. I don't think I have 40 years but who knows, didn't Adam live something like 900 years? I'll need a better retirement plan!
 
Oct 16, 2023
36
9
8
#40
The conversion of Paul was after the resurrection:
[Act 9:17-18 KJV] 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
So, in short, he was baptised not by water but by the Spirit.