Loss of salvation???
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Actually it doesn't just say that.
It says that they know that in God's judgment they're worthy of death because they commit such things. The "such things" are the sins listed in vv. 29-31. They can't know sin apart from knowing the law (7:7). The work of the law is written in their hearts (2:15).
If they didn't know the law, they never would have had a desire to get saved. Salvation would be meaningless to them.
It says that they know that in God's judgment they're worthy of death because they commit such things. The "such things" are the sins listed in vv. 29-31. They can't know sin apart from knowing the law (7:7). The work of the law is written in their hearts (2:15).
If they didn't know the law, they never would have had a desire to get saved. Salvation would be meaningless to them.
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Really good post . I think a key thing to note is “intentional willful sin “ v a person struggling with some behavior they haven’t yet overcome and it’s not an intentional thing being done of trier own Will .
The difference bieng repentance when they realize it is or was wrong which leads them here
“Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.”
2 Corinthians 7:9-11
Versus pretending like they didn’t do anything wrong that they need to feel guilty or repent over confess or acknolwedge they did wrong at all
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:8-10 KJV
One man is forgiven and washed of his unrighteousness the other has made God out to be a liar and proven themself a non believer of his word not bieng in them . When we’ve done something wrong we should t pretend like we didn’t. We should acknolwedge our sins and should feel sorrow because of the sin this is going to lead to repentance every time “ godly sorrow worketh repentance “
But if I pretend I did t do anything wrong and take no accountability for my sin I’m never going to feel bad for what I did never going to confess what I did and never repent this is willful sin , I’m create a way to continue by avoiding Gods design of getting real and acknolwedging my sins so he can wash them away and teach us to walk upright before God
He knows we aren’t perfect but when we willfully remain on the darkness because we know he’s going to call us out of sin it’s our own corrupt Will working against his Will to free us from sin and death and call us to repentance and life
This is a real thing and why people still share the gospel
; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26
there’s a difference in willful intentional sin we won’t repent of willfully and being caught in a snare designed by Satan who has us held captive within our own flesh
“but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
Romans 7:
The key to freedom is here given by the lord
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
The gospel is meant to do this
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
because of this
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:3 KJV
and so he’s giving us time and patience
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
2 Peter 3:9 KJV
He already knows we’re sinners he’s looking for those of us who will repent . And own our sins before him so he can take them away and teach us better ways , who believe
The difference bieng repentance when they realize it is or was wrong which leads them here
“Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.”
2 Corinthians 7:9-11
Versus pretending like they didn’t do anything wrong that they need to feel guilty or repent over confess or acknolwedge they did wrong at all
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:8-10 KJV
One man is forgiven and washed of his unrighteousness the other has made God out to be a liar and proven themself a non believer of his word not bieng in them . When we’ve done something wrong we should t pretend like we didn’t. We should acknolwedge our sins and should feel sorrow because of the sin this is going to lead to repentance every time “ godly sorrow worketh repentance “
But if I pretend I did t do anything wrong and take no accountability for my sin I’m never going to feel bad for what I did never going to confess what I did and never repent this is willful sin , I’m create a way to continue by avoiding Gods design of getting real and acknolwedging my sins so he can wash them away and teach us to walk upright before God
He knows we aren’t perfect but when we willfully remain on the darkness because we know he’s going to call us out of sin it’s our own corrupt Will working against his Will to free us from sin and death and call us to repentance and life
This is a real thing and why people still share the gospel
; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26
there’s a difference in willful intentional sin we won’t repent of willfully and being caught in a snare designed by Satan who has us held captive within our own flesh
“but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
Romans 7:
The key to freedom is here given by the lord
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
The gospel is meant to do this
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
because of this
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:3 KJV
and so he’s giving us time and patience
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
2 Peter 3:9 KJV
He already knows we’re sinners he’s looking for those of us who will repent . And own our sins before him so he can take them away and teach us better ways , who believe
If you are specifically referring to the Law of Moses, then no, one does not need to know the law to find God.
Romans 2:14&15
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
But if by law you mean the moral law all men are under (ie. don't murder, steal or lie), then one must know wrong in order to find the right. This is the work of the Spirit in the world.
John 16:8
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Romans 2:14&15
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
But if by law you mean the moral law all men are under (ie. don't murder, steal or lie), then one must know wrong in order to find the right. This is the work of the Spirit in the world.
John 16:8
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
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We have every spiritual blessing and lack for nothing in order to reach the upward call of Christ. Yet we can fail as evidenced by the letters to the Churches in Revelation. We can't lose our salvation (our life in Christ) but we can fail to make it our own to varying degrees. The prize (rewards) are given to those who overcome.
God, saves and has saved the ones that continue to fall, and continue to learn from mistakes. God, being faithful, picks us up and sets us to see truth over errors made. God said, to those fakes in flesh, claiming to know God, I never knew you to those that say, but I did this and that in your name. These are those misusing God's amazing grace, this by God I now see in thanksgiving and praise to God and I walked away from religion, religion is not good for me. I am set free to love all now, includes those under the deception in religion, being under Law and act as a " Betty better than you" (Luke 18:9-14)
The only ones that God is talking about are those that misuse /Grace. Such as the Corinthians did. And is why this Epistle was written to them. They took grace for granted, no concern for their neighbors, drank all the wine and Ate all the food, without a thought for others in need too. and did, what ever their selfishness desired. these did not ask for the new life in the risen Christ from ?Father of Christ, where the new life is at. It is not in the death as reconciled, No new life in being forgiven, Life is needed in the risen life the after that cross, once to all (2 Cor 5:17-20) So ask God for the new life? become new, made alive in God's Spirit and Truth for you too, if you haven't yet, thank you
Remembering this, this below, was said before the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus my Savior and the entire world's savior
Matthew 5:20
Authorized (King James) Version
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
On that cross, God by Son completed the entire Law for us to Get new life in his Son's risen Life given us, not earned ever, "Given"
Not of work(s) if is even a modicum of any work self work., then Grace is no longer Grace. The born again, do the done work of Son only, at least learn this truth after error after error after error.
Now, for those that will not enter that claim to believe God. The truth here is Matthew 5:20 as stated above
Free is free, there s no attachments to free, if there are, then Grace is not grace
Thanks
'
The only ones that God is talking about are those that misuse /Grace. Such as the Corinthians did. And is why this Epistle was written to them. They took grace for granted, no concern for their neighbors, drank all the wine and Ate all the food, without a thought for others in need too. and did, what ever their selfishness desired. these did not ask for the new life in the risen Christ from ?Father of Christ, where the new life is at. It is not in the death as reconciled, No new life in being forgiven, Life is needed in the risen life the after that cross, once to all (2 Cor 5:17-20) So ask God for the new life? become new, made alive in God's Spirit and Truth for you too, if you haven't yet, thank you
Remembering this, this below, was said before the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus my Savior and the entire world's savior
Matthew 5:20
Authorized (King James) Version
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
On that cross, God by Son completed the entire Law for us to Get new life in his Son's risen Life given us, not earned ever, "Given"
Not of work(s) if is even a modicum of any work self work., then Grace is no longer Grace. The born again, do the done work of Son only, at least learn this truth after error after error after error.
Now, for those that will not enter that claim to believe God. The truth here is Matthew 5:20 as stated above
Free is free, there s no attachments to free, if there are, then Grace is not grace
Thanks
'
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I believe salvation is accepting and believing that you are born again and accepting God in your life . Just because you sin it doesn’t mean you will lose your salvation but believe you are adding on the things you will be accountable for on the day of judgement. Because we as sinners are not perfect we have a lot of faults which we need to acknowledge and work on.
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Hebrews 6 has earlier context of believers being admonished to go on to maturity, leave elementary principles. That's what is late in Hebrews 5.
So..'Fall away' in Hebrews 6 isn't 'lose eternal life' .. but fall away from going on to maturity. And since the Hebrews were going back to old ways of animal sacrificed.. that is 'tredding under foot' Jesus's one sacrifice for all who belive in Him.
Its a warning of firey discipline for Hebrew believers..not of being cut off from eternal life.
So..'Fall away' in Hebrews 6 isn't 'lose eternal life' .. but fall away from going on to maturity. And since the Hebrews were going back to old ways of animal sacrificed.. that is 'tredding under foot' Jesus's one sacrifice for all who belive in Him.
Its a warning of firey discipline for Hebrew believers..not of being cut off from eternal life.
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You’re talking about Hebrews 6:4-6? Yep, that’s a tough scripture. There must’ve been some spirit filled believers who recanted in order to save themselves from death maybe. But they had serious self condemnation after.
The best part of this chapter is Hebrews 6:1-3 “So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.”
Hebrews 6:1-3 NLT
Man, how that applies to this forum!
The best part of this chapter is Hebrews 6:1-3 “So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.”
Hebrews 6:1-3 NLT
Man, how that applies to this forum!
Acknowledging; Thanking God, remaining forgiven, not taking this for granted, not using it for any self gain.
Knowing daily "I" need God's lead through me, every day. standing in the day only, learning this truth too
Thank you
When, anyone's obedience is perfect, then we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience. Jesus, the Son was/is 100% obedient. And yet he chose to let that woman go in John 8. Said to her go and sin no more. Does anyone think she never sinned again?
Okay, thank you
Knowing daily "I" need God's lead through me, every day. standing in the day only, learning this truth too
Thank you
When, anyone's obedience is perfect, then we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience. Jesus, the Son was/is 100% obedient. And yet he chose to let that woman go in John 8. Said to her go and sin no more. Does anyone think she never sinned again?
Okay, thank you
Hebrews is a warning about Jews going back to law. and an explanation about how Christ is much better than the law.
Chapter 6 is just a basic truth about the flaw of the law.
The law says sin can cause us to fall away. Hence the need for further sacrifice
The author is making a point of truth. IF a person could fall away (like the law says they can) It is impossible to renew them to repentance.
In other words. if you go back to the law (your truth faith) then you will never give grace a second look. and you have failed to receive the one thing that could have saved you.
Saying you can fall away, puts Christ to open shame.
Chapter 6 is just a basic truth about the flaw of the law.
The law says sin can cause us to fall away. Hence the need for further sacrifice
The author is making a point of truth. IF a person could fall away (like the law says they can) It is impossible to renew them to repentance.
In other words. if you go back to the law (your truth faith) then you will never give grace a second look. and you have failed to receive the one thing that could have saved you.
Saying you can fall away, puts Christ to open shame.
Everyone under the First Adam born in the flesh are condemned are they not?before Law and after Law put in place
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
Not under Law then, yet death still remained, yet people knew in themselves the truth as Joseph knew and his brothers had him taken away and told their Father he is dead. Amazing grace you think from God? I think! For by this not being killed it saved the first chosen in the Famine, I think there were 85 Hebrews, first chosen left, when the Famine happened
Then Law came, which is to show us our inability to obey it perfect ever (Romans 8:3)
To now daily, go to God personally from within us each and ask God for the new Life, Jesus came to give us, which is the risen Christ for us to be made new in and love all, thank you, It does not mean one or anyone will not ever sin again, to me at least this I now see, and on ly hold me accountable. If anyone can do it perfect now, after not doing it perfect, now can, in belief or under Law will not need God, because pride will set in them and that person would be a " Betty better than you" as in Luke 18:9-14 tells me not to think I am better than. anyone ever.
As I have loved many go your posts, I do not see John H did anything wrong, thanks
John H, said They can't know sin apart from knowing the law
The above might be what you refer to, and that is true, they ll knew know in their hearts, yet not knowing was not revealing
Therefore Law in place until
Galatians 3:19-26
Authorized (King James) Version
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring usunto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 7:11-12
Authorized (King James) Version
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Hope and trust to help us each grow a little more, trusting God to reveal and God sees fit, not me
- Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Romans 5:17
For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Romans 5:21
that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
Not under Law then, yet death still remained, yet people knew in themselves the truth as Joseph knew and his brothers had him taken away and told their Father he is dead. Amazing grace you think from God? I think! For by this not being killed it saved the first chosen in the Famine, I think there were 85 Hebrews, first chosen left, when the Famine happened
Then Law came, which is to show us our inability to obey it perfect ever (Romans 8:3)
To now daily, go to God personally from within us each and ask God for the new Life, Jesus came to give us, which is the risen Christ for us to be made new in and love all, thank you, It does not mean one or anyone will not ever sin again, to me at least this I now see, and on ly hold me accountable. If anyone can do it perfect now, after not doing it perfect, now can, in belief or under Law will not need God, because pride will set in them and that person would be a " Betty better than you" as in Luke 18:9-14 tells me not to think I am better than. anyone ever.
As I have loved many go your posts, I do not see John H did anything wrong, thanks
John H, said They can't know sin apart from knowing the law
The above might be what you refer to, and that is true, they ll knew know in their hearts, yet not knowing was not revealing
Therefore Law in place until
Galatians 3:19-26
Authorized (King James) Version
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring usunto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 7:11-12
Authorized (King James) Version
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Hope and trust to help us each grow a little more, trusting God to reveal and God sees fit, not me
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Grow up, ask God to permit it to us each to grow into God's maturity of God's done work of Son for us each
Thanking God for this amazing grace, now given to appreciate, for all of us that see under Law, us trying to do what no other flesh can do and only done by Son Jesus alone, who went to death once for us all, for us to be willing to be dead to self also, To see the new life offered to us in the risen Son for us to wake up new and love all in the same mercy and truth given us by Son's willing death, done once for all in our deserved places.
Hebrews 10:10
Authorized (King James) Version
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
John 19:30
Authorized (King James) Version
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Hebrews 7:11-12
Authorized (King James) Version
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Thanking God for this amazing grace, now given to appreciate, for all of us that see under Law, us trying to do what no other flesh can do and only done by Son Jesus alone, who went to death once for us all, for us to be willing to be dead to self also, To see the new life offered to us in the risen Son for us to wake up new and love all in the same mercy and truth given us by Son's willing death, done once for all in our deserved places.
Hebrews 10:10
Authorized (King James) Version
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
John 19:30
Authorized (King James) Version
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Hebrews 7:11-12
Authorized (King James) Version
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.