The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?

In God's rest, there is no rebellion to
I don’t not see God’s works as past tense- He is constantly working in our lives to help purify and sanctify, if we allow Him to, so I will disagree with you His “works” are past tense.


You mention sin and repentance but you claim there is no more law. If there is no more law 1 John 3:4 , there is no more sin Rom 4:15 Rom 7:7, so why would there be the need of repentance from what? So I think there’s some things missing here, but some things I agree with.

Anyway, we will probably not agree and thats okay. I do wish you well.

when “the law” is used in the new testament by paul he is always referring to the rituals of the Levitical law, the baptising of jesus was an example of Him fulfilling the law as the high priests had to wash themselves thoroughly before entering the temple. Jesus became the last one and only high priest which did away with the duties of the Levites.

that being said, the laws that were given by God to the children of Israel are the measurement of what He asks of us, although none of us can be justified or righteous by the law on account that none of us can keep all of them as Jesus did, the law should still be our measuring stick for what “is and isnt” sin. by faith in christ we can live knowing that we have propitiation for our sins through the blood of christ and in that freedom we should strive to live within the guidelines of the law as kings and priests.

i think that once we are able to reconcile our failure is made perfect by the precious blood of jesus christ, then we are motivated to follow all of Gods commandments as a form of worship which is pleasing in his sight knowing where our righteousness is rooted.
the same God who gave the moral laws in the old testament came into the world as Jesus and challenged us further, an example being that to lust after a woman in one’s heart is adultry. Christ asks us to take up our cross and follow him, i imagine that would be a life living by the law as an example and a testimony to those in darkness.

i’ve found in my own experience that the lukewarm brethren call everything “legalistic” that convicts them inside. they are the same who use “christian liberty” as an excuse to continue in the sin that they do not want to give up. this is why christian men end up in the bar or at the strip club.

I find that there are many who don't understand what it means to be dead to the law and alive unto Christ.

Hello MikeIsraelite.

Where does Paul state that his usage of the phrase 'the law', only refers to Mosaic rituals?

Paul uses that same phrase 'the law' roughly 50 times in the letter to the Romans.

Paul uses the phrase 'the law' in the passage below and is referring to a commandment.

Romans 7:3
So then, if while her husband is alive she gives herself to another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress if she gives herself to another man.

If you understood Paul's letters you would understand that Paul, is referring to the entire Mosaic law.

Forgot an important factor….edited to accommodate


I don’t not see God’s works as past tense- He is constantly working in our lives to help correct, restore purify and sanctify, if we allow Him to, so I will disagree with you His “works” are past tense.

Phil 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

That was a Very nice post, and is according to scripture! Thank you and welcome!

just to address Romans 7:3 Paul is making the statement regarding adultery in the context of Yahweh God and the children of Israel, Pauls whole ministry was to take the gospel to the Israelites that were scattered along the nations. Romans 7:3 is alluding to Yahweh divorcing the children of Israel and as prophecied the messiah, Christ Jesus gave his life to free those who were under the law from sin and death. that is a whole other study but
as for that context of the law…
hebrews 9:14
“Since this is true, how much more is accomplished by the blood of Christ! Through the eternal Spirit he offered himself as a perfect sacrifice to God. His blood will purify our consciences from useless rituals, so that we may serve the living God”

In Acts chapter 15 while in Antioch, Paul and Barnabas were teaching former pagans converted to Christianity that they did not have to be circumcised and follow the other rituals of the laws of Moses, but that “some had come down from Judaea teaching the brethren that if you would not be circumcised in the custom of Moses, you are not able to be saved”
During the ministry of Jesus the Pharisees condemned him and his disciples for not doing the ritual of washing the hands before eating recorded in Mark 7:1-8
“1Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem. 2And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault. 3For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders. 4And when they comefrom the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables. 5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with theirlips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Even before Paul, Jesus stood opposed to the outward show of the judaizers cuz they loved their rituals and the traditions of the elders which came from the Talmud and not the Torah. Although Paul uses the word “law” many times in his epistles, he also uses the phrase “works of the law” and these were the Levitical and ceremonial laws which included circumcision and ceremonial washing but also the offering of sacrifices and burnt offerings. These things had been done away with cuz they were perfected in christ, He being the one High Priest who made the one offering with his previous blood as the last sacrifice needed for the propitiation of sin.

When you consider that Paul went to teach the scattered israelites among the nations of which were pagans, the law was still their “schoolmaster” as it should be ours but ultimately we are to have faith that jesus paid the price for when we do sin and the liberty comes from. believing that our righteousness before the Father is in what Christ accomplished and can never be found in anything that we do. Truly believing and washing ourself in the word daily should absolutely make you want the law of God.. An example from my own life, i was getting tattooed for over 20 years and i’m covered head to toe but when i came to Christ i had still gotten tattooed. in the last year ive dedicated myself to seeking God daily in study and prayer, ive decided i am not going to get tattooed anymore cuz Gods law has instructed us not to tattoo or mark up our bodies. sure i could just continue to get tattooed and call it christian liberty cuz i’m forgiven but im choosing to refrain in order to bring my flesh into submission being obedient in the faith.

in reading the new testament jesus never broke any of the moral laws but he did stand opposed to the rituals and traditions and we should be striving to be confirmed to the image of Christ. Read 1 John and it’s clear that he identified sin outside the boundaries of the law. The closer we draw to God the more we should love his ways and his laws but not for the sake of righteousness but to be a son that honors his father.
Romans 11:5,6
“Now in this manner even in the present time there has been a remnant in accordance with the election of favor. 6 But if in favor, no longer from rituals: since favor would be favor no longer.”
Romans 2:12
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the nations, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
ROMANS 2:26
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Yes. It would be what we consider to be core, fundamental doctrines. I realize that you believe your church teaches Circumcision, but I doubt it. I may be wrong, but I am confident that your teachers are barely scratching the surface of this "heart" of the Bible doctrine. Unless a person has a thorough, working understanding of this doctrine, their belief system will be all over the place. Unfortunately, to cover so much material would take far too much effort online. So, I will leave you to the Lord.

Precisely. Within the context of the Story of God, the Story of the Bible, the idea that the Law never comes to and end simply doesn't fit.

Ok but the one question was what made you realize you were a sinner, because your sin has to be dealt with somehow, but your answer was "a very powerful experience" While your faith was like mud, So from what I can work out you got an experience that made you think you put off the body of sin, then after you were indwelled with the spirit like you can somehow separate the two, So by bypassing the law and the cross, you propose an experience that doesn't explain how you dealt with your sin or what saved you, Kinda like you think you were just specially picked while your faith in Jesus was mud and your new message is the church is wrong not teaching the real Gospel, did I sum that up about right cos that's some serious stuff and not how the bible lays out the process.

That is why Jesus said you must be born again, those who have not been born again are children of the devil and they do his works as he can take them captive at his will, The only way out is by been born again and that changes your spiritual father, the born again become children of God

When you receive Christ, that is the point you are born again, Jesus is that spirit, when you receive Jesus you receive life, he is the gift of righteousness and the gift of eternal life


Salvation is not by works, And faith comes by hearing the word of God, so it is interesting it made you worse and become completely deceived, It shows that what we believe is important because you admitted your faith in Jesus was like mud, when it is faith in Jesus that God accepts to give us the new birth

Jesus Spiritual works are in all the born again because he is in them, he is the author and finisher of their faith and he will complete the work he started in them, But it is the physical works Jesus did on earth, becoming a man, born under the law, living without sin, defeating death and raising from the dead that Jesus became the savior of man, He achieved it by dying on that cross and he did it physically and our Salvation is based on that Jesus died for our sins was buried and rose from the grave. P

That would be a cursed Gospel, There is only one Gospel that saves in the time of the Gentiles and we will be judged by the Gospel given to Paul by Jesus from heaven, not 3 parts but one Gospel that saves, It is the Gospel of the grace of God, Paul called it his Gospel it was revealed to him by Jesus from heaven, Paul explains it like this

1 Corinthians 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

So looking for fruit, You didn't use the law, You didn't mention the cross and the blood atonement and you brought a different Gospel, And you talk very bad about the church, Have you considered you have been deceived again?

The real Church is the body of Christ, it has been blood brought and redeemed, made right with God, given the gift of righteousness and the gift of eternal life, Their faith and confidence is in Jesus, Jesus loves the church and gave his life for it, He is the head and the church is his body, they are the righteousness of God in Christ, God calls them saints

I stopped reading from the onset of your first paragraph, because it is extremely evident that we are at two completely different points of understanding regarding the Bible, and the Saving Gospel Plan of Christ. To bring you to a point of understand what I wrote would require perhaps hundreds of hours of explanation. Unfortunately, that's not why I'm here. I'm not here to witness to any of you . . . I am here to learn and prepare for being out in the real world.

It also seems evident that you don't have a Spirit of encouraging Christian Brothers and Sisters. Instead, it seems that you have a Spirit of discouragement and being nit-picky. Had I know that your intentions were not to find similarities, but instead, differences, I wouldn't have wasted my time sharing that precious story that you have so horrifically mocked.

No to respond.

That's why I tried to talk to you about you thinking the law is extinct but you wouldn't stay on topic. what do you think you are going to tell the lost world. that the law is extinct? you need the Law to show them that they are sinners and need a savior

And at least read the last part

The real Church is the body of Christ, it has been blood brought and redeemed, made right with God, given the gift of righteousness and the gift of eternal life, Their faith and confidence is in Jesus, Jesus loves the church and gave his life for it, He is the head and the church is his body, they are the righteousness of God in Christ, God calls them saints

What am I going to tell a person? How would I know? Are those conversations always the same for you? I mean, if I'm talking to a Blessed Jew or if I'm talking to a Gentile, those are two vastly different conversations. It also depends upon the questions a person asks of me. It also depends upon the knowledge base such a person has. It also depends upon where our beginning point is, such as with Philip and the eunuch who was reading from Isaiah. Lastly, if it were necessary, I have a vast collection of verses that outline why I believe (notice I, not you nor anyone else - you all can believe whatever you want . . . I dun't care.) Have I shared those verses here? No, because if I did, some nut would gripe and complain about that, too. And that's what we do right in front of the world . . . we whine, gripe, complain, nitpick . . . good grief, I even saw a "christian" refer to another as one that belongs in a mental institution.

So, since you think you have me and everything all figured out, there simply isn't any reason to continue. I have absolutely no issue with you believing whatever you want to believe. You have no argument with me.

No need to repsond.

Ok well you gotta get that Gospel right or you won't be saving anyone, gotta make sure you can offer it in one piece, keep it simple don't get confused with the simplicity in Christ and teach Christ crucified, let me know if you want the other 2 thirds filled in so you have the one piece fits all solution for their sin.

Unbelievable.

There is only one solution for their sin and it takes belief so not unbeliefable.

Tell me about your studies. To what depths have you personally taken to understand the Bible? In other words, what are your credentials that would cause a person to think that perhaps you might understand the Story of God?

If you would, please do me a favor and send me your personally written paper that outlines, in its fullest detail, what you believe is the Saving Gospel Plan of Jesus Christ. Now, considering that I have written to pastors across the country, and THEY have no papers, nor sermons that they could send, I will understand if you do not either.

Please send it to:

2ndtimothygroup@gmail.com

Thank you so much.

Ok thankyou, I have sent my resume by email. All the best with your studies.

I think it's important to allow God to direct our path and define what sin is since it's what separated man from God Isa 59:2

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

To claim there is no law, which means there is no sin is really not a good argument. Have you looked around? Read the papers lately? Is this your view of a world of no more sin, no more tears? Sin will not be removed from the world until Jesus comes therefore His law will be here until Jesus comes just like He said Mat 5:18-19

Being without law really puts one in a bad spot come Judgement Day if we are to believe the very Words of Jesus

Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Because
Prov 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


The law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ until faith. So many miss this important principle, they think they can skip the step about keeping the law until faith comes and still be in Christ, but Jesus in His own Words says depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.

God's law is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 so we can't skip this very important step, that we can bypass the law and be converted in Christ. Once faith comes it establishes the law Rom 3:31

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

So when we keep God's law it brings us to Christ until faith comes. which we do not void the law through faith we establish it and once in Christ He gives us the power to keep the law. John 14:15-18. There is nowhere in this equation where we are free to sin and break God's law in any scripture of the bible.

Previously we seemed to agree, not sure what happened, but at any rate, guess no point in going through it again, so I wish you well and hope you will consider these scriptures in prayer.