Dogs Returning To Their Vomit

Yea does a father impose his Will or teach it

Right. All those things come to pass as God performs them.

Is anything equal to this or can anything else replace it ?

“He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:31-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is Moses word the same ?

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭

The gospel is what the Old Testament promises will come brother to give them hope for a future after they broke the old covenant God began to say he would come in the form of the messiah the son to be born and he would speak his words of life and requirement for all human souls it’s why after he preached the gospel he said this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is Gods word of eternal life of salvation for all who believe it’s what the rest of the Bible is pointing us all to

Why does he keep teaching us to hear what he’s saying and obey him though ? Because it’s not our place to hear and obey him he’s gonna do that for us ? Why not just tell us there’s nothing you need to do I’m going to do it all for you ?

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt. And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He does those things because we are in covenant with Him through Christ and by doing them we will be most satisfied in Him and He will be most glorified in us.

I think as He pleases speaks to His sovereignty and will.

Mhmm also though Cameron beloved brother and all I’m Really trying to say is this stuff is part of our faith or it’s supposed to be that’s why it’s in every letter and every gospel and every page of the ot

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. ( we are supposed to believe what he’s saying it’s not me saying it I’m pulling it from the same letters tbat talk about the other stuff earlier it’s part of the doctrine to believe this also it moves us to repentance it’s his design for us )

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk ( act as ) as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.


And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Saying “ I’m saved and it can never be lost I do t need to do any work whatsoever I don’t need to change or make any effort ect it’s all just God doing what he will do I have no part in it “

airs going to cause us to keep rejecting ehats really there that we are supposed to take in and believe so God can fix our issues. We need to let him change our thinking to what is boeng taught

I get your point. But God is changing our thinking and actions daily; even moment by moment. Part of salvation is that the same grace that saves us continues to grow us and teach us. We are in Christ. This means He has taken on the responsibility to present us spotless to God. He will not lose any of us. This is why we are secure. We may fall along the way, but He will never abandon us...never leave us or forsake us.
It's interesting that in heaven we will receive crowns. But what do we do with those crowns? Wear them proudly upon on heads? No, we will cast them at His feet. Why? Because we know that we gained them because He kept us all along.
So all the things written for our admonition and direction, He has fulfilled in us. Jesus not only paid it all; He also performed it all in us. This is what it means that I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me.

alright brother always enjoyable

If you play the numbers, perhaps this is your new one.

You're skipping some of Jesus' words! Jesus said that they received it AND enjoyed it for a while, meaning that they acted on them! Are you not aware that these are Jesus' own words and you're actually not paying attention to what He's saying because they don't scratch your itching ears? Please be careful.


The parable IS talking about Jesus and people who think they are His followers though. It's not talking about anyone else. If the bridegroom in the parable keeps them locked out, Jesus will also lock out people who no longer maintain their walk with Him in the Holy Spirit. That's what the parable means. I'm really surprised that you never picked up on that? How much clearer can it be???


I hate when people pretend to be victims. You're not a victim in this. The parable is pretty easy to understand. You just don't want to accept the full implication of what it means.

I was writing about the servant who began to beat the other servants when the master was away for too long. Then you wrote: "You mean to tell me that man, who continued in sin was saved? " That servant was saved for a while as Jesus has shown that the servant was doing his duties as he should for a while, but when he thought the master was away too long, that servant got careless and start to mistreat the other servants and fell away, no longer obeying the master. It's not difficult to see that.



I've posted MORE than just one Bible passage. But we'll go over what you posted.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This verse DOES HARMONIZE with the verses I've posted. A saved person can at some time know Jesus and keep the Lord's commandments. But if that persons stops, then this verse is true for that person.

1 John 3: 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

This verse also harmonizes with the verses I've posted. The key phrase is Whoever abides in Him does not sin. So long as a person abides in the Lord, they remain born of God, His seed remains in him, the Lord keeps the believer safe from Satan and all the other benefits of abiding in the Lord. See? Your verses and my verses don't conflict.

Morally upright is not the same as godliness though. It's only God's view of a person that counts. What defines a person as saved is God being in a person's life as their Lord and Savior and that person abiding in the Holy Spirit (who is the seal over us to show we belong to God).


John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

How does this contradict the verses by Jesus that I posted? This verse also talks about abiding in Christ. The inference is that we ought to live continually believing in Him so that we will never die. Otherwise, if we stop living by believing in Him, we would certainly die because we've had left Him at that point. It will always come back to the fact that eternal life is in Him. It is not a separate feature.


When a person abides in Christ, God does give that person peace, not as the world does. That's why non-OSAS believers are calm. It doesn't matter if you think obeying God's command to abide in Him is work. God Himself doesn't see it that way and that's enough for us.


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Luke 15:24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

The father actually saw the prodigal son as dead when the prodigal son was away. If the prodigal son never returned, the father would have continued to view his prodigal son as dead. Unfortunately, that sometimes happens in real life as the Bible testifies. That's why the Bible warns us so that we don't make the same mistake as those people.


Lol, they are figures of speech to describe the current condition of a person! Are you really a sheep? Or a dog? Or a pig? No, lol!


You're having a hard time understanding what God is saying in those verses you ignore. He's not lying in any of those verses and they harmonize with the verses you like. Why would He include them in the Bible if those things can't happen?

In my own walk with God, when I realized that it can happen, I asked God to help me avoid falling away from Him and He showed me in the Bible how.

Jude 1:20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.


It's not legalism if God Himself is telling us what to do in Jude 1:20-21 and other verses like it, which is to abide in God. When a person does that, they are not living in the flesh, but able to live for God in His power. Abiding in Him will also give that person true peace especially when under persecution and tribulation and will cause that person to become more trusting and loyal to Him.

I don't know where you get the idea that abiding in God takes the focus off God and puts it on self. A person who abides in God is literally and completely dependent on God to live as He wants that person to! In my own life, habitual sins no longer have a hold on me and I'm able to obey so much better now that it is in His power, not mine. I trust Him more and I'm a lot more faithful to Him because of His work in me. It's amazing how powerful God is if you abide in Him!


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Yeah, He did those things, but you had to first receive the gift and then used it to gain the benefits of it. The gift doesn't work if it's just lying around unused.


The Bible says you can though. You just don't like those verses.


Your trying to mix our justification or our positional perfection from our ongoing sanctification.

heb 10: 14 for By one offering he perfected forever. those who are being sanctified.

Unless the first happens., there sill be no send part..

And there is that pesky word forever again....

Like Paul. I am confident of this one thing, He who began a good work in me WILL CONTINUE until the day of Christ.
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Actually, you have to read the rest of that chapter:

A Call to Persevere in Faith

Hebrews 10:19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

So you see, abiding in Christ appears here as well. And also the possibility of falling away.


No, God didn't fail. If you failed, it's because YOU did not remain in Christ. I can see what you're doing now. You want to place all the blame on God if you fall away. But since God put all these verses are in the Bible to warn us that you're ignoring, it's not God's fault.


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I've already gone over that verse you used in 1 John 3 in a previous post. You still have to abide in Christ for those benefits to kick in.


Non-OSAS people don't rely on themselves either. But they do acknowledge the totality of the Bible. And falling away is warned about in the Bible. God shows us how to avoid it, it is to remain in Him and not to resist His work.


I wrote: A true child is a Christian who consistently abides in God, enduring to the end.

You wrote:
If God says that we should abide in Him as many verses the Bible command, then it's perfectly doable. And lots of Christian before us were able to do this. This shows a lack of faith in you that you can't do it! But be encouraged by the fact that other people have been able to obey God on this. If they can do it, you can too.


If Jesus thinks the seed that fell on stony ground was saved at least for a while, then I'd go with what He thinks.

Your mention of fruit reminds me of the fig tree that Jesus cursed. That is a picture of a saved person who no longer produced fruit in keeping with the Holy Spirit. Another picture of a saved person that fell away. And note that Jesus curses such a person. Those verses are in the Bible for a good reason - to show that it can happen and to warn us to avoid unfruitfulness.


Jesus said that the seed that fell on stony ground are Christians with very shallow faith (no root). When persecution and tribulation came, they weren't able to withstand those hardships and fell away. So shallow faith is still faith even if it's a little. Those people were saved but since they didn't exercise their faith and increase it by abiding in Christ, they fell away at the first sign of opposition.

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You're the one that keeps saying that God is a liar and won't keep His word if He lets people fall away. But the fact is, there have been people who fall away who were once saved. That is stated several times in the Bible. But the responsibility lies completely in the person who falls away, not God. God keeps His word that He won't be the one to leave and will transform a person in godliness and obedience if they remain in Him. But God doesn't take our free will away. If a person stops abiding in Christ and keeps resisting God's work in him, that person has willingly left God - so it's his fault, NOT God's.


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Non-OSAS believers don't blame God when a believer fails and falls away like OSAS believers do. You've implied that God lies and has failed if a person falls away, placing all the blame on Him. It's never God's fault. He's provided everything possible to help a person to get saved. They just need to abide in Christ and not resist His work in them. If a person falls away, it is COMPLETELY that person's fault.

It's good that you have confidence in God, but so do non-OSAS believers. The difference is, non-OSAS believers acknowledge that the Bible says a saved person can fall away and that we must abide and remain in Him to avoid that.

It is a crucial belief when we face all kinds of persecution and tribulation. A person who abides and remains in Christ can endure any hardship no matter how intense AND handle it in a godly, obedient and faithful way. This is important not just for facing the events in the last days, but in the smaller persecutions and tribulations we're facing now.


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2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

People can fall away from the truth if they do not abstain from sin led by the Spirit which a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

But some people did not abstain from sin when they first confessed Christ which their Church did not stress it but repenting means to turn away from sins.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This is plainly speaking about people that were saved but then they went back to enjoying sin and if they stay like that it would of been better if they had not known the truth than to depart from it.

It plainly states that they escaped the pollutions of the world, and knew the way of righteousness, which only a saved person can do.

It is not saying they were fake and then turned to their own vomit, but they were saved and returned to their own vomit.

They can not return to their own vomit unless they left their own vomit first.

It plainly states that they knew the truth but they departed from it.

Some people believe they can live in sin and be right with God which they would be hypocritical which we see many people that are hypocritical.

But their hypocrisy causes people to not want to embrace Christianity so they do not become saved, and the world moves farther from Christianity.

God wants all people to be saved so He would want us to abstain from sin, and not be hypocritical so people will accept the truth.

That fact alone would cause God to not want us to sin.

But the Bible says abstain from sin but these people that escaped the world, and knew the way of righteousness went back to wanting to enjoy sin which it would of been better if they had not known the truth than to depart from it.

For those that have not known the master's will shall be beat with few stripes, but those that know the master's will and do it not shall be beat with many stripes.

I do not like even being around people who claim Christianity but are hypocritical, and the Bible says turn away from these people.

But they want to say we are right despite our sins all the while the world says hypocrites and do not accept Christianity.

OSAS believers remind me of such people which they believe they cannot fall so they enjoy sin but they are not right with God.

But they want to believe they cannot fall so they can enjoy sin, and worldly pleasures, and money, and material things, acting like the world, and have a no pressure life.

But the Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I did not explain away written scriptures. I interpreted Hebrews 6:4-6 in context (Hebrews 6:4-9) and I also properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. Too late for what? I believe God's word as it is (in context) and I have not fallen away after being once enlightened, and having tasted the heavenly gift, and having become a partaker of the Holy Spirit, and having tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come.