God and Time

You speculate, "
God is not limited by time in either sense, but chooses to operate in the time frame He created."

And then you declaim speculation as a waste if time.

Funny!

I am leaning toward the idea that space is God's body. I

An interesting philosophical concept to consider is the notion of God’s relationship to time. Many Christian are quick to claim that God is not subject to time. This view is known as atemporalism. At first glance, this view seems sound as it affirms God’s immutability, highlights God’s omniscience and seeks to exalt God as one who sits over the constraints of time.

However, there are some serious concerns with this view. First, if this view is correct, God exists in a constant state of stasis. Everything would be a frozen present to God. Thus, creation, redemption and recreation would all be simultaneous events for God. In fact, it would call into question the very concept of God creating the world ex nihilo. For, how could God create the universe which had not previously existed if, for God, there could never be a first moment of creation. Second, the biblical notion that God became flesh would also be called into question as, there would never be a moment for God when God was not Jesus of Nazareth. Finally, this notion would cause us to reconsider God’s interactions with humanity we see in Scripture that is replete with warnings, answered prayers, forgiveness, anger, love and other acts which indicate God is responding and interacting with humanity based on human actions in time. This view is also popular among Calvinists as they use this philosophical notion as justification for God‘s predetermination of the elect and damned based on his sovereign declaration rather than human response. It would only make sense that if everything is a frozen constant to God, then the moment of creation would also be the moment of salvation. God knowing everything prior to creation would have created the world in such a way as to have predetermined all outcomes.

A second view on God‘s relationship with time is temporalism. This view suggests that God exists in time. In the same way humans are subject to time, so is God. Yet for God, his past is infinite as well as his future. In some ways, this fits many of the Biblical descriptions of God’s interaction with time as he is referred to as one who is “from everlasting to everlasting,” “the first and the last,“ and “before all time and now and forever“ (Jude 25). This is not to say that God is subject to time, as if he is inferior to time itself. Rather, that time is part of God’s essence or being. Theologians from this view hold a range of different theological positions from Reformed theologians, Arminians and openness theologians.

A third view would argue that God is metatemporal. Similar to the temporal view, this view claims that God does exist in time. However, God does stand outside the human timeline. This view holds that there is created time and uncreated time. God stands outside the created timeline of the universe he made, but still exists in his own time which is part of his very essence. Thus, God does interact with humanity based on the flow of time and God, himself, along with his thoughts and actions do have a past, present and future. So the encounters with humanity along time are not merely anthropomorphic as atemporalists would argue, but are genuine responses to past and present actions.

What are your thoughts about God and time? I am interesting in discussing your thoughts and their implications on how we understand the teachings of Scripture.

When the saints are at the New Jerusalem there will be no time for all things go on the same, and there is nothing to be scheduled.

that nothing can constrain God is not speculation, because it is written, for Him nothing is impossible. neither is it that He chooses to operate in the framework of the universe He created, because it is clearly seen that we wait for Him now; that just as He appeared at just the right time, He will also return at exactly that time which is perfect.

the difference between speculation and inference is incontrovertible evidence and clear logic, as opposed to things we cannot fully understand & so cannot fully justify.

we do not understand time. in this universe it seems inescapable, fundamental, but it also cannot be touched or measured directly - we derive it from the apparent changes in the relative positions of all the matter and energy of the universe, but we don't independently observe it, outside of motion - that is, outside of a differential between two observed arrangements of matter. we can't perceive the difference between physical motionlessness and timelessness.

So what can we say about God and time based on what we can see?
we know He speaks of the future as though it is already the past ((Isaiah 46:10, Romans 4:17)) and we know He does His works in time, even though He finished them before He made the world ((Hebrews 9:26, Revelation 13:8)) - are these opposing one another? they may seem to be, but they cannot be, because He is God. so they are a mystery, yet to be shown to us. God is both wholly separate from time ((He is therefore not equal to time)) and it is His pleasure to do His will in time - while that will is also done as though it is itself not in time at all but eternal.

"His arm is not shortened" - He is not rendered incapable of action by being independent of time. He reveals Himself and His work to us using time, and that person and that work He reveals, are operating both throughought and without time.

in the same way, Paul, He is independent of space, for the Word says both "nothing is hidden from Him" and "seek Him while He may be found"

You speculate, "
God is not limited by time in either sense, but chooses to operate in the time frame He created."

And then you declaim speculation as a waste if time.

Funny!

Glad I could provide you with some entertainment.

However... are you sure my statement was speculative?

Space is Spirit?

God created time . He’s eternal without beginning or end . Time is part of creation it’s a measurement of the earths revolutions around the sun.

How would we know? Maybe He changed the history books too?

No. My body is not spirit. But God's spirit could fill all space, not just in our continuum but in all continua. All things whatsoever could exist within, but distinct from, the greater infinite pace of God's body.

So, you have no evidence that God is not constrained by time. It is speculation.

Spirit isn't corporeal.

God created the sun, moon and stars as sign and to measure the passage of time that was already in play. Scripture does not say anywhere that God created time itself.

Do you have a scripture that says spirit isn't corporeal, or is that speculative? BTW, I'm not saying spirit is the body. it inhabits

So, your claim that God is not constrained by time is merely speculative. God could be constrained by time in the same way that He is constrained by love and truth. Not because the time he experiences is something other that Himself to which He is subject, but because it is something that He is by nature: loving, truthful and temporal.

Yes. What is your proof that God is not limited by time ,in the same way He is not limited by love or Justice. What is your proof that God is not by nature spatial and temporal?

I don't know if you're reading someone else's points here because it seems to me that you're new at this but it's a fun subject nonetheless.

The "Challanges" that you posted are ideas that you have in your mind so they're your challenges not my challenges.
Because again you're missing the point of the fish-bowl where we will have concepts and language barriers when trying to describe anything outside of our own experience in this universe.

I don't know if you've studied this enough to consider the following:

* What we perceive as "Time" may not be time at all. We are biological beings and the whole universe is in a constant state of change. This change may be perceived as time for us for many practical reasons including survival.
* If time does truly exist and flows like a river, you still have no idea what kind of physics you're dealing with outside of this universe to even call a concept like Time and label it "Time" as we experience it. So you need new language, concepts and physics.

So if we can't understand what Time is, how can you even ask a question about a frozen Creator interacting with a moving object like us? Especially since the Creator created what we perceive as time.
Have you really looked into the concept of time at all? Because i have seen several documentaries by very bright physicist and no one has any idea what Time is.