The 'ELECT' vs 'Free-Choice'

God did not "predetermine."
God was simply able to determine what the outcome will be once He created all souls in His omniscience.
Calvinists trip over their shoe laces when dealing with that..

The key to this enigma I believe is found here!

When the Lord God in Heaven decided to make Himself to become as a man? (Philippians 2:6-8)
He revealed that the Son has a unique ability to unhitch His soul from the Omniscience of His Deity.

That factor was revealed to us right here.... Luke 2:52.


God can not grow in wisdom nor stature with God!

That is the golden key!

For if Jesus was able to make Himself be as a man?
Not to be functioning in His attributes of Deity?
In that same manner God could have set forth the Son, in that state of mind,
to create all souls and everything in creation, without knowing who would believe, or reject!
For all things were created *through* Him!

Then after doing that? And having granted every soul their own free will without interference?
Then returned to functioning in His attributes (omniscience) of God as to determine what was to
become of all angels and men that he had created in his mind without the knowledge of who would reject Him.

That is the Key to understanding how God created all to have free will.
For when He was creating all angels and men in his mind? His only desire
was for all of them to know the same love He has for the Father!

Selah! .... freedom!

Calvinists are mechanical thinkers....

Its like fighting robots....

Don't give up yet, please.

I am going to revisit this post...

maybe you should give me the benefit of the doubt and understand I know what I am talking about and who I am talking to and I know what they are really all about

did you not understand the things he was saying? did I write something not from scripture to back up my reply?

quite honestly, I am taken aback how you see things but that is your choice of course. I had asked that people ignore the person who kept causing trouble but you chose to answer and just kept it going. I did not see where you got anywhere.

but now you can continue to argue Calvinsim. Kindly leave off personal remarks to me. I have left them off where you are concerned because I saw you were determined to do your own thing and that's fine.

Personally, I find it so much more condusive to peace and all around a better atmosphere when we do not goad people with our responses such as God will straighten you out. I do not talk to people that way.

As far as Calvinsim goes though, it is a doctrine supposedly from scripture and I will answer from scripture while denyng the false responses.

did you not read where I have had my fill of debates about Calvinism?

now you say I am giving up? How about you read what I actually post instead of interpreting it

honest to pete

The best answers can come right about when it gets like this.
How do you think the Jews felt when their backs were to the sea and saw pharaoh and his army of chariots relentlessly heading towards them? God's solution appears when we think its hopeless.

what are you talking about?

let me make this plainer. I did not appreciate the way you were talking to the fellow who was banned...but that was your choice

nothing you said led to him being banned even if you think so. I thought you were out of place but I am not responsible for you.

I have no clue what situation you are referring to. I think you might be looking to attach yourself to someone again and tell them which way is up.

I assure you that I am not that person nor do I have a situation going on.

smh

well then? .... have a NICE DAY.... Sorry you choose to feel that way.

sorry, but you do not tell me how I choose to feel

and this thread has lost its way and does not need to be devoted to Calvinism

it served a purpose and it was a single minded purpose even though it went all over the place

you chose to ignore the rest of us saying we are not going to co-operate with a certain person, so you helped that person to continue

see, I would normally not point that out, but here I make an exception

I will have the day the Lord has blessed me with. Thank you.

God is good. All the time.

Have a nice day.... And, you hope you read more carefully to realize I was only making a suggestion.

The door swings both ways ..

Give me what you asked for as well.

God responded to the prayer of Hezekiah and many others.

What brought that on?
I never made such a claim..

If I had? Show me, please.

But there was something else that was shared that you had not seen before...

Something that you have not had your fill of yet.

You misunderstood my intentions.

I did not want you to go back over the same old threadbare arguments to drag you back in...

This post takes a different tack... https://christianchat.com/threads/the-elect-vs-free-choice.214939/post-5296758

No one here has presented it, and no CALVINISTS has an argument against it.

It resolves their conflict...

Yes.... But what Jesus told the disciples was to pertain to the Church age.
We do not function the same way as OT believers. They did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit like we do.


When we are controlled by the filling of the Spirit? If we are being filled?

We are being led into what God wants us to pray for.

OT believers did not have that ability granted to them. They just prayed what the felt, even though when we pray we may feel what we are to pray for.

The natural man, according to 1 Cor 2:14, cannot receive the things of the Spirit, until he has been quickened to a new spiritual life, thinking them to be foolishness.

Jesus gives us the example, in 1 Pet 3:18, when he died for the sins, of those that God gave him, He was quickened by the Spirit.

In being born again, as explained in Ephesians 2:1, we are quickened when we were dead in trespasses and sins. The Holy Spirit is a quickening Spirit.

In Ephesians 1:13-14, only God's sheep hear his voice (John 10:26-29). Those in Ephesians 14, who were already quickened by the Spirit, and are now confirmed by the Spirit of promise of their inheritance of eternal heaven

It amazes me as to what lengths a person will go to to affirm their belief that their good works is what saves them eternally.

If only they would interpret the scriptures correctly, and realize that the scriptures do teach that the good works of those that already have the promise of an eternal inheritance can save=deliver them as they sojourn here on earth.

Salvation=deliverance, saved=delivered, and save=deliver, according to Strong's concordance

2 Pet 3:8; "his promise=divine assurance", according to Strong's concordance. We have to go back to 2 Pet 1:1 to find out to whom Peter is talking to, and it is to them that have obtained like precious faith. Peter is warning them the importance of repenting when they commit a sin, even including himself by using the word "us-ward". Telling them that when they commit a sin, it separates them from their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent. Perish=death=separation.

James 1:14-15 - But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This kind of comment is typical when a believer in eternal deliverance by works cannot harmonize the scriptures. I have empathy for them, because I was also blinded to see the truth, until I denied my own ability to understand it at the age of 72, and realized that no one is capable to understand the truth of the scriptures until the Holy Spirit within a person reveals it.

They think good works will save them because they do not know the one who is to save them.


grace and peace ............

The natural man can not know heaven is real.
He can not understand the Deity of Christ.

But, the unregenerate man can know one thing.

That he is a sinner.

That is where salvation begins.

After salvation?

Then comes the spiritual truths that the natural man can not comprehend.

Its embarrassing how simple it is.

I agree that the natural man can know that he breaks the laws that man has made, but he does not believe that there is a spiritual heaven, or anything else that is of a spiritual nature.