How many sins were forgiven by Son on that cross to his Father

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Deuteronomy said:
Hello again Homwardbound, it's true that, unlike 1 John 1:7, the forgiveness and cleansing of our sins by God in v9 looks back to the Cross as a past, present and future reality that has, for us, already been accomplished (since both words, ἀφίημι/forgive and καθαρίζω/cleanse, are in the Greek aorist tense).

However, this is not the case for 'us' (and what our half of v9 tells us to do), as ὁμολογέω/confess is in the Greek ~present~ tense instead. This Greek present tense indicates that an action is happening both presently and/or ongoing, thus the reason that our "confession" half of v9 is something that we are to do "over and over and over again", as often as we need to because of the ongoing sins in our lives.

I thought that I should also point out that I am not the one that you are actually disagreeing with. Rather, your disagreement is with the Holy Spirit, and also with the Apostle John, who (interestingly) included himself in the mix with the rest of us (in 1 John 1-2, see the words in bold at the bottom of this post) as someone who needed to continue to confess 'his' ongoing sins to God, as well, just like the rest of us need to do (not to be saved again or to remain saved, as the Law (our legal standing before our holy God) can only be satisfied at the Cross, but for the purpose of getting back the close fellowship that we enjoyed with Him, our loving Abba, which is lost, to one degree or another, whenever we sin).

As the murderer/adulterer King David prayed in Psalm 51:12, "restore unto me the ~JOY~ of Thy salvation", not salvation itself, because that was never lost (even though his sins were heinous).

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - question, if you're home watching something on TV, and when reaching for some food you end up knocking your wife's most precious family heirloom to the floor and shattering it into a hundred pieces, do you say anything to her, or does "love mean never having to say 'you're sorry'" in your home? ;) The Christian life is ALL about the ongoing and (hopefully) growing personal relationship that we have with our loving, heavenly Father/Abba .. cf Matthew 7:22-23; John 17:3. Or as one of my word studies puts it, "sin in a Christian’s life is a matter, not between a lawbreaker and a judge, but between a child and his father."

You know what, that word study (on 1 John 1:9/by Wuest) says it all better than I could ever hope to, so I'll post it for all to see/read in next post below.
​
1 John 1​
7 If we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. ​
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. ​
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. ​
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. ​
​
1 John 2​
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we ~have~ an Advocate (now and ongoing) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; ​
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​
​
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excellent post
 
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presidente said:
You need to work on your grammar.
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yes, I do agree, I am willing to learn to do the better and be led by God to do as led, you know what, apparently, so did Jesus spoke in parables, even gave physical analogies for people to get Spiritual realities and they did not get the physical analogies, to understand Spiritual ones
Amazing, the Bible full of cliff notes that myself included extrapulant and make doctrines out of them, where many mistakes have gotten made to learn new from them, thank you for pointing this out to me.
 
Evmur said:
excellent post
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yes, that is truth and yet not so well for those that are trying to do what no flesh can do and seek to repent again, and not seeing sin taken away by the Son for them to walk new in, having their consciousness purged from, sin to not see sin again, by God's love working through them in risen Son for them.
If I, you or anyone else is focused on the new given them in the risen Son, that does leave no time for one to continue in sin or does it?
Sin purged by God through Son, as told of in Hebrews 10 to get our conscious purged from Sin by God's done work of Son for them. If you are still focused on not sinning then you will continue in it, privately mostly, not ever wanting to be exposed. I know, I did under Law daily. trying not to sin got me in sin deeper and deeper, trying to get out from under it. And Could not do it, being in quilt and then in pride anytime I thought I got it, I got to see oh, no I do not gotmit do I?
If this be you too, God by God's work can and does remove it from you, once anyone sees they can't do it as talked of in Romans 7
"I" need God, God's grace is sufficient for me and everyone else too. Until "I" admitted to God, I need God seeing "I" can't do it, God took over and has been teaching me new. Removed and removing one sin at a time, not all at once. Why?

Because all at once brings in confusion to the people whether inn belief to God or not.


Galatians 6:7-8

New Testament for Everyone

7 Don’t be misled; God won’t have people turning their noses up at him. What you sow is what you’ll reap. 8 Yes: if you sow in the field of your flesh you will harvest decay from your flesh, but if you sow in the field of the spirit you will harvest eternal life from the spirit.


Galatians 6:7-8

Authorized (King James) Version

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

My point is: yes go ahead and go after to do Law, yet remember not one human person can do it perfect as is now done for us all by Son on that cross as perfect, the only one that could do it, did and ever will do it, it is Done (John 19:30) to appreciate and not ever take for granted as goes on to this day here in this flesh earth life,
Not being willing to be dead to the first birth of themself in selfishness and acting as if are alive, yet are not inside themselves they are no good at all, and remain in hope, and God does saves us those that are sincere the ti s for sure, our works to ever get in has to be better than that of the Pharisees Matthew 5:20
At least me, this I know after over 20 years under Law to see I need God above it all as Paul talk about in Phil 3 to us all
There is a good will worship of the flesh nature produced in each of us from child birth onward, which os of this world
the be good or else attitude. Therefore flesh nature is trying to out do one another (Luke 18:9-14)
Then there is the willing to God worship as Jesus said to Father in the Garden of Gethsemane
Father please remove this cup from me, is there not any other way? Nevertheless your will Father not mine
Can we the people say this also? It is up to each and everyone else individually to choose to be willing or not and act as if are and are not, still sinning, trapped in it one in unbelief, yet claiming belief to see, and do nit under Law not clearly.
If anyone is in belief, I say continue to tell God Thank you even if you sin again, for Son did take it all away for you too at that cross for you to learn new in his Holiness for you. It is a gift to you and all others too. To learn new in standing in continued belief to see (Col 1:21-23)
Not of work, if is, then man has a reason to boast over I repented again to God. Really? Is God in Son going to come back and die all over again or is that done? There is no true forgiveness without shed blood is there. It is done in Son for s all or it is not and wee need to continue to ask for more or not? You decide this world has trapped many here in this world, that God has not taken Kingship over. Give to
Caesar what is Caesar's and to God wha tis God's
My Kingdom is not of this world, is what Jesus said, time to turn over and be dead to this world and self flesh nature with it to see new in God's Spirit and Truth, thank you
"I" die Daily in thanksgiving and praise all sin taken away by my Savior, Jesus for me and all others also.

When I personally saw this truth, I started saying thank you to God for Son and then asked to be taught how to walk away from it. God has not ever forsaken me yet and never will. Even for you, you and anyone else that turns to God in thankfulness, seeing what is now done by Son for them too
God Father reveals this to all his kids in belief that will not deny God ever, thanks


Psalm 103:12

Authorized (King James) Version

12 As far as the east is from the west,
so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
 
CS1 said:
Jesu paid the debt for sin. All Past, present, and future sin that is what he was saying when we read in John 19:28-29

"It is finished" in Greek means a payment of a debt. Jesus was saying the debt is paid, or it is now completely paid forever.


No other payment is needed, and no more sacrifices can be offered. This is it; "it is finished."
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Reconciled (2 Cor 5:17-20) yes thank you
 
Cameron143 said:
Sin is the transgression of the law; not the acknowledgement of having done so.
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“But if ye be led of the Spirit,

ye are not under the law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

back to my example if you the father don’t I form the child d they do something wrong it isn’t a sin in has to be “transgression of “ that means you have to be aware of something to transgress it

if I don’t tell you the rule , you can’t possibly transgress my rule because of ignorance

You absolutely have to know you are sinning or have sinned for it to be a transgression that’s a knowing breaking of whatever the rule happens to be

If there’s no law in my heart , I can’t sin and break it

transgression” an act that goes against a law, rule, or code of conduct; an offense.”

i can’t transgress a law I don’t know about
 
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Evmur said:
... "after we have come to a knowledge of the truth" is not "after we have been saved"
all sin is wilful ....
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“the threat here is temporal and physical punishment, even death”

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-3, 6-7, 10-14‬ ‭

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“…..the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to repent we can’t keep sinning he’s being patient

“He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i dont really understand how Christianity got so far away from the basic doctrines of the Bible
 
Pilgrimshope said:
“But if ye be led of the Spirit,

ye are not under the law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

back to my example if you the father don’t I form the child d they do something wrong it isn’t a sin in has to be “transgression of “ that means you have to be aware of something to transgress it

if I don’t tell you the rule , you can’t possibly transgress my rule because of ignorance

You absolutely have to know you are sinning or have sinned for it to be a transgression that’s a knowing breaking of whatever the rule happens to be

If there’s no law in my heart , I can’t sin and break it

transgression” an act that goes against a law, rule, or code of conduct; an offense.”

i can’t transgress a law I don’t know about
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You can transgress a law unconsciously. You cannot transgress a law while walking in the Spirit, however.
 
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Pilgrimshope said:
“But if ye be led of the Spirit,

ye are not under the law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

back to my example if you the father don’t I form the child d they do something wrong it isn’t a sin in has to be “transgression of “ that means you have to be aware of something to transgress it

if I don’t tell you the rule , you can’t possibly transgress my rule because of ignorance

You absolutely have to know you are sinning or have sinned for it to be a transgression that’s a knowing breaking of whatever the rule happens to be

If there’s no law in my heart , I can’t sin and break it

transgression” an act that goes against a law, rule, or code of conduct; an offense.”

i can’t transgress a law I don’t know about
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actually this is laying down the law


Galatians 5:16-26

New King James Version



Walking in the Spirit
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


You missed all Christians are still subject to the law under the law when there walking in the flesh.
 
Evmur said:
Nathan said David's sin was already put away ...
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David also sought for forgiveness.

3 Be gracious unto me, O God, according to Thy mercy; according to the multitude of Thy compassions blot out my transgressions.
4 Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
5 For I know my transgressions; and my sin is ever before me.
6 Against Thee, Thee only, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in Thy sight;
that Thou mayest be justified when Thou speakest, and be in the right when Thou judgest.
 
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Evmur said:
they are forgiven but may not go unpunished, and if we don't stoppit when God says He may deal ever more severely with us.

... He does this because we are His children. We are and ever will be saved.
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Sins paid for does not mean sins forgiven.
 
Cameron143 said:
You can transgress a law unconsciously. You cannot transgress a law while walking in the Spirit, however.
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You can transgress a law unconsciously.

A Human law ? yes ignorance isn’t an excuse in a court room I agree . Gods law of the spirit of life is not like that , he deals with men individually according to what they know.

“And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:

and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s simple if we just accept what it says

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭

Realize how that takes away me judging you or you judging anyone else ? Gods spirit is with each believer he’s the one n us and teaching us what we come to know he’s allowing us to learn and grow and accept things he’s trying to teach us .

But me ? I have no idea what you or anyone else knows between the Holy Spirit and your own self but we also can’t pretend we dont know we’re sinning when we are if we do o ow because again Gods holt spirit is t going to be deceived he’s within our heart and mind

our relationship with Jesus is truly a personal one no one else is going to be judged by what I know but what they themselves know is right and wrong is the point

Sin is when you know you are doing something against Gods Will
 
Pilgrimshope said:
You can transgress a law unconsciously.

A Human law ? yes ignorance isn’t an excuse in a court room I agree . Gods law of the spirit of life is not like that , he deals with men individually according to what they know.

“And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:

and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s simple if we just accept what it says

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭

Realize how that takes away me judging you or you judging anyone else ? Gods spirit is with each believer he’s the one n us and teaching us what we come to know he’s allowing us to learn and grow and accept things he’s trying to teach us .

But me ? I have no idea what you or anyone else knows between the Holy Spirit and your own self but we also can’t pretend we dont know we’re sinning when we are if we do o ow because again Gods holt spirit is t going to be deceived he’s within our heart and mind

our relationship with Jesus is truly a personal one no one else is going to be judged by what I know but what they themselves know is right and wrong is the point

Sin is when you know you are doing something against Gods Will
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Your last statement is true, but not a complete definition of sin. Sin is also the transgression of the law, and anything that is not of faith. So I still contend that a person can transgress the law and not be cognizant of it. Further, the example you use has both servants being beaten. Thus, both were held accountable...even the one who didn't know he was committing an offense.
 
Cameron143 said:
I'm not under the wrath of God...Romans 8:1.
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Romans8-1-2-1-Corinthians15-57s.png

Romans 8:1-2; 5:57 + 58b
:)
 
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Cameron143 said:
Your last statement is true, but not a complete definition of sin. Sin is also the transgression of the law, and anything that is not of faith. So I still contend that a person can transgress the law and not be cognizant of it. Further, the example you use has both servants being beaten. Thus, both were held accountable...even the one who didn't know he was committing an offense.
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He can transgress the law but does that mean he's not made aware afterwards or he never knew in the first place.

Do you view a person who is not loving as needing help or someone who is bad,

Have you view them as bad first before youve ever stopped to think why there not loving and what you can do to talk with them.

Is it not hate that builds up in everyone when law is transgressed for most part.

Or in other part is not greed that builds up that ignore the law

Or I other parts is not people on. Drugs

Or people who want a free life.

Or people who are lazy.

For which instance do you feel it's possible for people to not know they have transgressed law.


I have another question but why is people don't think God's laws is now not wrote on all hearts and only the Jews ?.

Is because you listen to people who say they never knew when they do wrong
 
"OBTUSE"
Look it up, then judge yourself wherein you fall in the line.

Any argument for argument's sake proves fruitless to the proponent of and the receiver thereof, only comes across as OBTUSE !
 
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