Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

sorry but the reason any one believes is because God gives them grace to believe.

The Scriptures very plainly declare that God sent His Son to secure salvation for His people by dying for them and being raised from the dead so that they will be raised from their spiritual death to be given a new heart and spirit to be able to obey His just command given to all to repent and believe on Christ.

God is grieved at the extent of sin (Gen 6:5-6) but is also angry with the wicked He hates every day (Psa 5:5, 7:11) and Christ will come again in judgement upon those He hated before He created the world (Rom 9:11-13).

it seems that you do not yet know that all of God's attributes are based in His holiness.

Does God love these below?

2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

you have left out the fact that faith itself is a gift and people are saved through the instrument of faith and not by it.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

and those who received Him did not choose Him from their will.

Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

Jas 1:18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Psa 110:3a Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,

Psa 65:4 Blessed is the man You choose, And cause to approach You,

please learn what the word predestined means.

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

I definitely agree with you, maxamir, and would just hasten to add that the only faith that brings salvation to anyone is Christ's faith freely reckoned (imputed) by God unto those whom He saves- no one is saved from/by a self-produced faith (I know that you already know this but wanted to make the distinction clear for others).

[Rom 1:17 KJV] 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

I believe there is one truth.

And I believe anyone who thinks they have the 100% truth are decieved.

No he did not. where do you get this?

God spoke these words in malichi. Esau the person had been dead for centuries by this time

You caused Jesus to contradict himself.

so lets solve the apparant contradiction.

No alternatives?

Why not listen to what a person is saying other than listening with a calvinist or arminian perspective?

How about setting aside the arminian vs calvin debate and just speak about the word?

There are many alternatives.

Thats because they make it a calvin vs arminian debate.

Do you know how many calvinista or arminians are actually in this chatroom? I doubt there are very many, So why are we arguing about the two?

Or we can do like MANY have done, and chose NEITHER of the two choices..

I personally reject both forms of theology.. So I think it is a shame when someone calls me a calvinist because I believe in eternal security, or someone calls me an arminian because I reject calvinism.

I think you missed my point completely.

I do?

Did you hear what I said. I belong to the church of columbus,, That church consists of many denominations. I am not apposed to the other true churches..

There are not 40,000 denominations in columbus, again, you have bought into the roman catholic lie and reasoning.

You shoudl walk away from that thinking

Same could be said of you my friend.

So we should listen to men? Since when should we place our eternity in the hands of another person?

God told us to study to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the word of truth

he also told us to test each spirit (truth)

The roman church does not want you to do this, because they would be exposed.. Sadly you have fallen into their trap

No,

He died so that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM, will be born again.

See there is where the issue is

God is an agape love person as well as a Justice person.

Both his love and justice are perfect.

One can not overrule another. thats why he had to come and die.

When you claim God does not love everyone the same. you claim he has no perfect love. hence you diminish God..

You have a failure to listen,

Faith is not the CAUSE, It is the MEANS to which salvation is recieved.

For it is by GRACE WE HAVE BEEN SAVED.

Grace is the CAUSE.

But it is only done through faith

For it is BY GRACE WE HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH.

Faith is not the consequence of new birth, it is the means or highway by which it is received.

But as many as have RECEIVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children of God

He died for his creation.

There you go destroying romans 9 again.. smh

I know all of Gods attributes
he is perfect holiness
He is perfect justice
He is perfect knowledge (omniscient)
He is everywhere (omnipresent)
He is perfect love (agape)

You claim he not only is not perfect in knowledge, he does not have perfect love either

Yes, and why are they punished?

Because they did nto OBEY THE GOSPEL.

But according to you, they can;t obey the gospel. God prevents them from obeying

so God is the reason they will be judged. Not themselves.

You keep proving my point for me

And?

For by grace we have been saved THROUGH FAITH.

Yes faith is a gift. If God did nto die. all the faith in the world would not save you.

The gift is the cross.

Why do you hate God so much?

Predestine means predetermine

Please learn what the word foreknowledge means

God predestined that those he foreknow would see and believe in him would be conformed to the image of his son.

The bible is a whole.. take it as a whole

No one comes to faith by himself.

Abraham CHOSE to believe God. God did not make abraham alive so he could believe.

No, Abraham did not choose to his faith/belief was a gift given to him by God

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

And the faith given to Abraham (and to all who become saved) is Christ's faith because only Christ's faith is righteous - a man's self-produced faith is not.