Who is Babylon in Revelation?

The most common answer given is Rome, some have said America, some have said Jerusalem, some even Mecca. What do you believe it is and why?

I am leaning towards Rome as well, just because the purple and scarlet matches perfectly, the cup of abominations, it all fits Romanism so well, but there are some issues with a futuristic interpretation that I have run across, which is verses like these:

"And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men."

The papists of today are not selling slaves or horses or fine flour, neither is any city or country on the earth selling slaves, as in the ancient world.
But even the preterist view has its problems, if you say this mystery babylon has already been destroyed, why hasnt Jesus returned as it is supposed to happen at His return?

What do you personally believe? All are invited to chime in, whether you think this is future, present or past.

I believe Babylon is the same Babylon that is in Iraq.

I also lean toward Rome, but I've had problems with the same things you do. But if it's talking about Rome past and future, then those things make sense. From where I stand, there are problems with every interpretation out there. So I don't do a lot of speculating; in time it will all be clear.

Jerusalem

There is Babylon (the city) and then there is Mystery Babylon (an idolatrous religious system).

Babylon -- the city -- may well be literally Babylon in Iraq, although many are suggesting that it is the USA. But how can a country be a city? As to Mystery Babylon, the foundation would be the church of Rome, but the religion at the time of the Antichrist will be much more. It will included Rome but become broader so that it becomes a worldwide religion (Revelation 13). However it would be unwise to go much beyond that. We need to also keep in mind that the Antichrist will be a false messiah presenting himself as the true Messiah of Israel and possibly the Mahdi of Islam. Even presenting himself as God.

Jerusalem

I believe Babylon refers to world system. Thus, Babylon can refer to Rome or any State system past or present that the enemy manipulates for the purpose of pressuring, seducing and persecuting believers. Likewise, the ”mark of the beast” is the number of man. Babylon, the beast and the false prophet represent man’s efforts to replace God’s heavenly city, governance and religious truth. That is why some are marked on their foreheads and hands (indicating what they think and what they do) with the mark of the beast (carnal and worldly focus) vs those marked by the Holy Spirit on the foreheads (focused on heavenly things) and remain able to resist the temptations of the world.

Thus, those who trust in the world and the things of the world, at the Second Coming will see all their security and hope burnt up. Whereas those long for a heavenly dwelling are able to endure the persecutions and pressures of the world without compromise. That is the essentially the message Jesus has for the churches in chapters 1-3 that is extrapolated upon throughout the rest of the book. Jesus tells the churches “I know your works…” and then goes on to encourage them to either remain faithful or repent based on whether or not they are compromising to these various pressures.

So, I believe Revelation is teaching us that we are currently in Babylon. And just like Israel who were taken captive to Babylon and forced to worship false gods or pressured to compromise their covenant with God, so believers today are in a hostile city that is ultimately being manipulated by evil forces to cause them to compromise. When God looks at us, he knows what our true focus is and whether or not we belong to him or to the world based on what we love and our determination to hold to the truth. He sees it just as clear as if it were tattooed on our foreheads. Also, in the days of Israel in Babylon, many of them ultimately gave up on their heritage and embraced citizenship and the practices of the idolatrous city. However, the faithful refused to bow to false gods or give up their covenant and were ready to be delivered and return to Jerusalem when Babylon fell (seen magnificently in the book of Daniel). Those who ultimately became citizens of Babylon and made their home there lost everything at its fall. Revelation parallels this situation with the situation of Christians today to remind them of the dangers of putting their hope in the systems of the world that will not last.

Here is a question I pose to people who don't believe Jerusalem is Babylon.I don't get many answers.


The day of the Lord.
On the day of the Lord when all the nations come against Jerusalem ,Babylon is attacked .Their houses are ransacked and their wives raped.

Now ,here is a simple question.
If all nations have come against Jerusalem on the day of the Lord ,ransacking the houses and raping the women as in zech 14:1-2,then how could they be anywhere else on the day of the Lord ransacking the houses and raping the women in Isaiah 13:16?



Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.



Isaiah 13
13 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.

3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

Jerusalem.

That is a possibility based on this verse: And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. (Rev 18:24)

Probably the US. Rev. 18 certainly describes the US to a tee.

No that is the whore. Babylon the great is just Babylon. Peter wrote from there with his son Marcus.

Jerusalem is a possibility based on many verses in the bible including post #8.

It wasn't so long ago that I made a thread about the king of Babylon smiting the Palestinians with his rod which is in the bible.Something that's been going on for decades but has recently been in the news.

Consider how this verse could easily apply to the Roman Catholic Church. ("Holy" Roman Empire)

"And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:
and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." Revelation 17:6

"a. Throughout the Dark Ages, the Roman Catholic Church was a great persecutor of all Christians who
would not join themselves to the Catholic Church.

b. During the Spanish Inquisition in 1492, King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella issued an edict that every
person in Spain had to be baptized Catholic within four months or else leave the country. Their slogan
was “be baptized or die.”

c. Estimates of the number killed by the Spanish Inquisition, which Pope Sixtus IV authorized in a papal
bull in 1478, have ranged from 30,000 to 300,000.

d. John Huss was burned at the stake for his refusal to pledge allegiance to the pope of the Roman Church.

e. William Tyndale, the translator of the Tyndale Bible, was strangled and then burned at the stake for the
crime of translating the Bible into the language of the common people.

f. Martin Luther was declared a heretic at the Diet of Worms, Germany and he was sentenced to die
because he had dared question the teachings of the Roman Church.

g. Foxe’s Book of Martyrs records thousands of martyrdoms of Protestants by the Roman Catholic Church.

h. Estimates of the total killed by the Roman Church range from six million to 68 million. "
Excerpt from Revelation-The unveiling of Jesus Christ (Endtime.com)

Six Specific Clues as to the Identity of This Woman, the Great Harlot
1. The woman is a great city on earth.
Revelation 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
a. God Almighty has decreed horrible judgment on this great city.
b. This prophesied judgment will occur at the time of the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth.

2. The city is the headquarters for a vast international system.
a. Revelation 17:15 tells what the waters symbolize,
…The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations,
and tongues.
b. She sits on many waters, which represent peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues.
c. The headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church is in Rome.
d. The church presides over a billion people from almost every nation on earth.

3. The city sits on seven hills and the beast on which the woman sat had seven heads.
Revelation 17:9
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
a. Rome is known as the City of Seven Hills.
b. The seven hills are so famous they each have their own name.
c. The property was called the Vatican before being purchased by the Roman Catholic Church.
d. “Vatican” literally means Divining Serpent and is derived from Vatis = Diviner and Can = Serpent.
Revelation 18:23
... for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

4. The woman was arrayed in red and purple.
Revelation 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and
pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
a. There are two ruling bodies of the Roman Catholic Church:
1) The College of Cardinals
2) The College of Bishops
b. It is the official Roman policy that cardinals wear red, while bishops and non-cardinal archbishops
wear purple.

5. The woman was drunken with the blood of the saints.
Revelation 17:6
And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:
and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
a. Throughout the Dark Ages, the Roman Catholic Church was a great persecutor of all Christians who
would not join themselves to the Catholic Church.
b. During the Spanish Inquisition in 1492, King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella issued an edict that every
person in Spain had to be baptized Catholic within four months or else leave the country. Their slogan
was “be baptized or die.”
c. Estimates of the number killed by the Spanish Inquisition, which Pope Sixtus IV authorized in a papal
bull in 1478, have ranged from 30,000 to 300,000.
d. John Huss was burned at the stake for his refusal to pledge allegiance to the pope of the Roman Church.
e. William Tyndale, the translator of the Tyndale Bible, was strangled and then burned at the stake for the
crime of translating the Bible into the language of the common people.
f. Martin Luther was declared a heretic at the Diet of Worms, Germany and he was sentenced to die
because he had dared question the teachings of the Roman Church.
g. Foxe’s Book of Martyrs records thousands of martyrdoms of Protestants by the Roman Catholic Church.
h. Estimates of the total killed by the Roman Church range from six million to 68 million.

6. God gave Roman Catholicism the name Mystery Babylon the Great.
Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
a. Roman Catholicism is modern day Babylon disguised under the name of Rome.
b. Babylon was the origin of man-made religion.
c. Over the years, the Roman Catholic Church has changed many central doctrines and teachings of the
New Testament Church.
1) There was no sprinkling for baptism ever done in the New Testament Church and no baptism of
infants recorded in the Bible.
2) Priestly celibacy has caused the Roman Church horrible heartache.
3) Forbidding to marry is a doctrine of devils according to this passage,

I Timothy 4:1-4:
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

I Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her
own husband.

D. Mother of Harlots
1. Not only is the Roman Catholic Church called Mystery Babylon but she is also the Mother of Harlots.
a. She has daughters that are also harlots.
b. A harlot is a woman of ill-repute.

2. In the Bible, a church is always portrayed as a woman. The Apostle Paul explained in this scripture,

II Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

a. The true church is symbolized as a woman, a virgin.
b. False churches in the Bible are also symbolized as women but they are referred to as harlots.
c. A harlot is someone who has been unfaithful and has gone out on her bridegroom.
Excerpt from Revelation-The Unveiling of Jesus Christ (Endtime.com)

It certainly could, but Revelation 18 mentions prophets, and Revelation 17 mentions martyrs. At the same time, the idolatrous religious system of Babylon was adopted and adapted by the Catholic Church, as noted in Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons.

The Vatican has been guilty of the same. Note the last paragraph from the Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Spanish-Inquisition
The Inquisition at its peak

Spanish Inquisition
Suspected Protestants being tortured as heretics during the Spanish Inquisition.(more)

Pedro Berruguete: St. Dominic Presiding at an Auto-da-Fé
St. Dominic Presiding at an Auto-da-Fé, panel by Pedro Berruguete, c. 1503; in the Prado, Madrid.(more)

Spanish Inquisition
The burning of condemned prisoners during the Spanish Inquisition.(more)

auto-da-fé
Illustration depicting key elements of an auto-da-fé, or public sentencing, during the Spanish Inquisition.(more)
The grand inquisitor acted as the head of the Inquisition in Spain. The ecclesiastical jurisdiction that he had received from the Vatican empowered him to name deputies and hear appeals. In deciding appeals, the grand inquisitor was assisted by a council of five members and by consultors. All those offices were filled by agreement between the government and the grand inquisitor. The council, especially after its reorganization during the reign of Philip II (1556–98), put the effective control of the institution more and more into the hands of the civil power. After the papacy of Clement VII (1523–34), priests and bishops were at times judged by the Inquisition. In procedure the Spanish Inquisition was much like the medieval inquisition. The first grand inquisitor in Spain was the Dominican Tomás de Torquemada; his name became synonymous with the brutality and fanaticism associated with the Inquisition. Torquemada used torture and confiscation to terrorize his victims, and his methods were the product of a time when judicial procedure was cruel by design. The sentencing of the accused took place at the auto-da-fé (Portuguese: “act of faith”), an elaborate public expression of the Inquisition’s power. The condemned were presented before a large crowd that often included royalty, and the proceedings had a ritualized, almost festive, quality. The number of burnings at the stake during Torquemada’s tenure was exaggerated by Protestant critics of the Inquisition, but it is generally estimated to have been about 2,000.

Tomás de Torquemada
Tomás de Torquemada.

Francisco, Cardinal Jiménez de Cisneros

Spanish Inquisition
Illustration depicting three women who had been condemned by the Spanish Inquisition.(more)
At Torquemada’s urging, Ferdinand and Isabella issued an edict on March 31, 1492, giving Spanish Jews the choice of exile or baptism; as a result, more than 160,000 Jews were expelled from Spain.

Francisco, Cardinal Jiménez de Cisneros, promoted the suppression of Muslims with the same zeal that Torquemada had directed at Jews. In 1502 he ordered the proscription of Islam in Granada, the last of the Muslim kingdoms in Spain to fall to the Reconquista. The persecution of Muslims accelerated in 1507 when Jiménez was named grand inquisitor. Muslims in Valencia and Aragon were subjected to forced conversion in 1526, and Islam was subsequently banned in Spain. The Inquisition then devoted its attention to the Moriscos, Spanish Muslims who had previously accepted baptism. Expressions of Morisco culture were forbidden by Philip II in 1566, and within three years, persecution by the Inquisition gave way to open warfare between the Moriscos and the Spanish crown. The Moriscos were driven from Granada in 1571, and by 1614 some 300,000 had been expelled from Spain entirely.

Simply: she is the one who opposes the true Bride of Christ. She has the form of a bride but her relationship is transactional with God: I'll do for you and you, God, will do for me. Quid pro quo. She feigns obeisance to God but her words and actions lack love or commitment to God.

This spirit is seen in Cain, (many others), Jerusalem, and is now seen in many of the churches. She is easily seen in cultures that maintain forms of godliness but deny the origin of His power (Christ): Irish, Germanic, Mexican, Latino, Russian, European, etc. Closer to home, the spirit of Babylon is in Christmas, Easter, etc. In this country (the U.S.) her anthem is "In God We Trust" and is celebrated on our currency.

Jerusalem is the woman in chapter 12 and she goes into the wilderness later you see that she changed her garments it’s a take on prophecy like this you see a beautiful woman forst that zgod made beautiful then she changes her garments and commits whoredoms consider the imagery

This is why you see the beautiful woman with the crown that’s noted as the chosen city above all the earth

“Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine. Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭16:2, 8-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this is how she became the whore

“But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, and tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them. My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord GOD. And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood. And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD that thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street. Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms. Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith. How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman; in that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire; but as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭16:15-19, 22-26, 29-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is what was to become of her

“Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD: Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them; behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare. They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭16:35-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this of course is one of many but you should be able to see a beautiful woman made so by God and exalted above the earth and you should be able to see her becoming a whore and worshipping all the false gods around her and changing her garments given to her by God into diverse colors ( of the levite priests ) and also you should see God handing her over to her lovers to be destroyed like you also read in revelation chapter 17

follow the woman from 12 she goes into the wilderness later you see her in the wilderness riding the beast that pursued her but she’s changed her appearance read also Ezekiel 23 regarding the two whore sisters Jerusalem and Samaria .

In the Old Testament God said all that about Jerusalem clearly labeling Jerusalem a whore that connotes adulteries co tiny ally with false gods of the nations around her

So how are the people which will be in Jerusalem ransacking the houses and raping the women of Jerusalem on the day of the Lord going to be in Rome ransacking the houses and raping the women on the same day?

Answer the question in #8.