JOHN 3:16

Inquisitor · Apr 11, 2024

Who did God release from slavery in Eqypt, from slavery to that Gentile nation?

The Jews were released from slavery in Egypt (slavery to the Gentiles). That is what the text states and never use the pronoun, 'we', as in, we were released from slavery in Egypt. The Jews were held in bondage to the law (a legal slavery) after being released from Egypt.
The Gentiles on the other hand have never been under the law.

Galatians 4:3-5
So we too, when we were children, were held in bondage under the elementary principles of the world. But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons and daughters.

You have been redeemed from that bondage (slavery) to the law.

The elementary principles are your futile attempts to become righteous through your own obedience.

Soyeong, please correct your interpretation so that it aligns with the scripture.

The Jews were under the law and the Gentiles were never under the law.

The Gentiles were never circumcised and the Gentiles cannot become circumcised, Soyeong.

Surely you can see through the veil?

Inquisitor · Apr 11, 2024

Soyeong said:

If God freed the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt to put them under slavery to His law, then it would be for slavery that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, and God's law is of freedom (Psalms 119:45). In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is transgressing God's law that puts us in slavery while the truth sets us free. So you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against in Galatians, which is leading you into slavery. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey God's law by word and by example, so Galatians should not be interpreted as speaking against following Christ.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4-6 as warning us against believing in the Gospel and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith and this is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from it. It would again be absurd to interpret that as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace, so again you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against.

There is a world of difference between the position that follower of God should follow His commands and the position that we should follow His commands in order to earn our justification as a wage because there are many verses that support the former or that speak against the latter.

"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). So love fulfills the enter law because it is correctly understanding that everything commanded in it is for the purpose of teaching us how to love. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit idolatry, adultery, theft, murder, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of God's laws. It is contradictory to think that we should obey God's command to love, but not His commands for how to love.

Can you see the contradiction in your statement below, the heresy?

Your self effort, your obedience, your faithfulness to the law, is what it is all about. That is your error.

Boast in Christ and only in Jesus Christ.

You cannot achieve any righteousness through your own exertion of obedience to anything.

Either you accept Jesus Christ or you reject Jesus Christ.

If you accept and trust Jesus Christ then you are perfectly righteous.

All you can do is what Christ does through you and in you.

Never blow your own trumpet, never say, "I will obey".

NewLifeInChrist · Apr 12, 2024

Soyeong said:

I agree with this statement because obeying the Bible is not the same as following the Lord. It would be interesting to see your explanation of the difference.

NewLifeInChrist · Apr 12, 2024

Inquisitor said:

"For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh" (Php 3:3).

Magenta · Apr 12, 2024

NewLifeInChrist said:

They believe Christians are to follow the law of Moses, which in their deceived mind
means the 613 mitzvot, which they further believe have been written on their heart.
They believe Christians should be practicing Judaism even though it is impossible.

NewLifeInChrist · Apr 12, 2024

Magenta said:

They believe Christians are to follow the law of Moses, which in their deceived mind
means the 613 mitzvot, which they further believe have been written on their heart.
They believe Christians should be practicing Judaism even though it is impossible.

Who are "they"?

Magenta · Apr 12, 2024

NewLifeInChrist said:

The person you asked to see their explanation of the difference.

Though there are others here with fairly similar beliefs.

NewLifeInChrist · Apr 12, 2024

Magenta said:

Ok, thanks. I thought you were saying Soyeng was a member of a particular group that had a name.

Inquisitor · Apr 12, 2024

NewLifeInChrist said:

I thought Soyeong was a member of Messianic Judaism?

Evangelical Protestants who identify as Messianic Jews adhere to conventional Christian beliefs, including the concept of salvation through faith in Jesus (referred to by the Hebrew-language name Yeshua among adherents) as the Jewish Messiah and savour from sin, and the spiritual authority of the Bible (including the Old and New Testaments)
Among other evangelical Christian groups, Messianic Judaism is usually accepted as a form of Christianity.[20] However, adherents of Messianic Judaism claim that the movement is instead a form of Judaism.[21] (wiki.messianic.judaism)

Burn1986 · Apr 13, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

does it distinguish between true believers and untrue believers in that verse ? Why not look for the verses that talk about the distinction ?

Like if you want only one verse that does make some sort of distinction between true belief and saying I believe

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;

but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a distinction it seems between two groups of sincere and insincere believers all are calling him lord but only some are doing his Will

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭

maybe sincerity of belief comes out through actions

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-19‬

Gods love requires action

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-3‬

if I believe something my actions are going to follow

Pretty sure that was the point the OP was making “whosoever”. Cmon man

Godswilling · Apr 18, 2024

Godswilling said:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If people don't believe to Jesus that the First Commandment is To Know God. This is what God The Father describe them.
Let us read it carefully and as if God is in front of us and saying:
JEREMIAH 4:22
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

ForestGreenCook · Apr 18, 2024

p_rehbein said:

IMO only I suspect, but that is what we are discussing, the Book of Life holds the names of every person who has been born. And, beside their name is everything they have said, done, or even thought. Those who have "endured" until the end shall have their names remain in the Book of Life and be worthy to enter into the Kingdom of God.

Those who have sinned against God will have their names BLOTTED OUT of the Book of Life and will not be worthy to enter into the Kingdom of God.

So, yes, names can be blotted out of the Book of Life.

I have a question. Have you ever sinned against God?

CS1 · Apr 18, 2024

Godswilling said:

The understanding of "Believe " is not the mental acceptance that Jesus exists. It is an action after being moved by faith.

The Holy Spirit opens one's eyes to see Jesus. Many saw him but did not know Him until their minds were opened by way of their hearts.

Until the Resurrected Jesus opens up your understanding of who He is, you can't receive Him. This is what you see after Jesus Rose from the Dead. As scripture says repeatedly, many saw him but did not know it was him.

At the tomb, Mary did not know it was him, the two on the Road to Umatha did not know it was him until He opened up their understanding.

This is the reason why so many can't under Jesus as God because they don't know Him. JW's do not have their understanding open. And the Doctrine of Devils who take away the truth of God's word from them less they believe Jesus said.

Belief is an action one does after the Holy Spirit ables them to know Jesus as Lord. Then, they are free to obey=, faith=, belief=, and receive = Freely.

ForestGreenCook · Apr 18, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

“And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-22‬ ‭

“But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we ( Jews ) shall be saved, even as they.”( gentiles )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Matt 28:20 has a footnote reference to Acts 2:42. Notice in Acts 2:39 What people in the all nations of Matt 28:19 include, and it is who the promise is to even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

As many as the Lord God has called out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9). The many called shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord (Psalms 40:3).

Pilgrimshope · Apr 18, 2024

ForestGreenCook said:

Not really following what your saying but it sounds legitimate

SabbathBlessing · Apr 19, 2024

Godswilling said:

I would consider reading a bit further...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

John makes the clear distinction that believing in Jesus is related to our obedience to Him. Those who choose to do evil (sin) does not come to the light because their deeds are evil, but we are called to come to the truth (light) so our deeds can be exposed. This is what the Ten Commandments does- it shows us our sin just like a mirror. Romans 3:20 Romans 7:7 James 1:22-24 When we bury our sins (stay in darkness) we don't confess or forsake them and therefore God can't give us His mercy and grace and give us the power to help overcome. Proverbs 28:13 Those who seek God want to come to the Truth so Jesus can help us overcome our sins. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 not in sin.

Jesus in His own Words tells us that it's more than just believing...

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord [believer],’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Believing is a great first step but as our love for Jesus grows, we should want to obey Him through faith and love. Rom 3:31 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Exo 20:6

Nehemiah6 · Apr 22, 2024

SabbathBlessing said:

Our obedience to Him comes AFTER we believe on Him and are saved. Do not get the two things confused. As far as being saved here is what Christ said (John 11:25,26): Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Do you believe this and believe Christ? Not a word about obedience at this point.

SabbathBlessing · Apr 22, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

We cannot obey God commandments without Christ, true. When Christ calls us what we can do is respond and cooperate. But belief is more than just "I believe in God" the devil believes there is a God, but is not going to be saved. There will be many "believers" who will not be saved according to the Words of Jesus Mat 7:21-23. Most people teach all we have to do to be saved is believe- they read John 3:16 and never read past further that shows belief means doing. If we believe in Jesus, we would believe in His teachings and follow them. Why people argue against this is really beyond me. If I asked my child to believe me and follow my rules and my child said to me, I believe you, but does their own thing instead. Well that's not really believing and for us its no different with our Heavenly Father. James 1:22

Godswilling · Apr 22, 2024

Godswilling said:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When Jesus arrived, the Jews are following the law of God. They think they were fulfilling them.
But since they disobey the first commandment, this is what Jesus said to them.
Who will believe to Jesus?
JAMES 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 22, 2024

SabbathBlessing said:

And the Bible certainly does not teach such faith. Here is what is stated in Titus 2:11-13: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

JOHN 3:16

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