Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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MerSee said:
Romans 8:16-20
16 For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God. 17 And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God, and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to come, that shall be revealed in us. 19 For the expectation of the creature waiteth for the revelation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him that made it subject, in hope:
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How does this answer the question I asked?
Also, what was your previous username?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Thunderrr-mental said:
no doubt you where asking already knowing the answer.

Calvinism is hurting a lot of people Cameron.

Anyhow take care Cameron, but really if I was you I would get a copy of a tulip doctrine throw it in the fire and remember it no more.
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Noted. I'm not sure how that would purge my memory, but as a symbolic gesture it's pretty solid.
 
R

Rufus

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Niki7 said:
Inspired scripture does not agree with you. Ignore at your own peril

As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; Romans 3:10

But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. Romans 5:10

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. I John 2:2

and Isaiah

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Isaiah 55:7

so it seems the wicked can do a 180 regardless of total depravity...which is a ridiculous assertion since God made us in His image and the INSPIRED Psalmist declares that only the FOOL has said in his heart there is not God

Rufus, the problem is YOU deciding.
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And your problem is that you spend so many words to say absolutely nothing that refutes my interpretation of Rom 5:8 -- all with irrelevant scriptures. The irrefutable fact remains is that the verb tenses in the text do NOT agree. And "us" doesn't = sinners either. You should do yourself a huge favor and become acquainted with at least the first principles of hermeneutics.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Rufus said:
God will hold everyone accountable for their careless handling of his holy word. You're so stuck on your heretical presuppositions that you can't help but gloss over scriptures, paying little or no attention to important hermeneutical details like verb tenses, for example. You are no different, in principle, from the false shepherds scripture often talks about and warns of us.

P.S. Notice I'm not laughing.
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A false shepherd is one who claims that Jesus is not the Christ or He did not DBR or there's more ways to God/Heaven than Jesus.

Show me where I have made such a claim?

p.s.
I am :ROFL::LOL::ROFL::LOL::ROFL:
 
R

Rufus

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Thunderrr-mental said:
doesn't work like that.

Did God create Adam and eve to be presdestined to hell.
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Why not? Logically it most certainly can.

And regarding the Fall, I wrote a multi-part series showing that Unconditional Election occurred in the Garden after the Fall. See posts 3044, 3493, 3567.
 
CS1

CS1

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Rufus said:
Why not? Logically it most certainly can.

And regarding the Fall, I wrote a multi-part series showing that Unconditional Election occurred in the Garden after the Fall. See posts 3044, 3493, 3567.
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So Adam God created to fall; therefore, it was not Adam's fault. It was God's? God Holy IS make people sin?
 
R

Rufus

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FollowerofShiloh said:
A false shepherd is one who claims that Jesus is not the Christ or He did not DBR or there's more ways to God/Heaven than Jesus.

Show me where I have made such a claim?

p.s.
I am :ROFL::LOL::ROFL::LOL::ROFL:
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False Shepherds have a broader meaning than that. Bone up on the topic in the OT and the New.

P.S. I'm not surprised that you're still laughing. Fools find many things at which to laugh.

Prov 14:8-9
8 The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways,
but the folly of fools is deception.

9 Fools mock at making amends for sin,
but goodwill is found among the upright.
NIV
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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Rufus said:
Why not? Logically it most certainly can.

And regarding the Fall, I wrote a multi-part series showing that Unconditional Election occurred in the Garden after the Fall. See posts 3044, 3493, 3567.
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it will sink in one day. But unconditional election is based on man being born in a body that is now perishable.

Conditional election is not based upon what man çan do to get saved.

Conditional election is the same the reason why God wants to save us is because where born in a perishable body.
 
R

Rufus

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CS1 said:
So Adam God created to fall; therefore, it was not Adam's fault. It was God's? God Holy IS make people sin?
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Was that YOUR personal takeaway of the series I wrote? I, seem to recall writing that all God's pre-Fall creation was "very good" and that God created Adam as a living soul, otherwise how could Adam have died spiritually after he sinned?
 
R

Rufus

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Thunderrr-mental said:
it will sink in one day. But unconditional election is based on man being born in a body that is now perishable.

Conditional election is not based upon what man çan do to get saved.

Conditional election is the same the reason why God wants to save us is because where born in a perishable body.
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Quite a novel theory you have. It's no wonder there are only two Churches in Rev 2 and 3 that receive glowing commendations from the Lord.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Rufus said:
False Shepherds have a broader meaning than that. Bone up on the topic in the OT and the New.

P.S. I'm not surprised that you're still laughing. Fools find many things at which to laugh.

Prov 14:8-9
8 The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways,
but the folly of fools is deception.

9 Fools mock at making amends for sin,
but goodwill is found among the upright.
NIV
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You say a lot for someone whose entire doctrine is solely based upon Paul.
Mine is based upon Jesus Christ and His Disciples who have confirmed what Jesus said.
It's true that I glean from Paul but would never make a doctrine from his letters like you have.
So call me a fool, unlike yourself, I am grounded in the direct words of God.
 
CS1

CS1

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Rufus said:
Was that YOUR personal takeaway of the series I wrote? I, seem to recall writing that all God's pre-Fall creation was "very good" and that God created Adam as a living soul, otherwise how could Adam have died spiritually after he sinned?
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sin separate us from the Eternal God who give life
 
Magenta

Magenta

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FollowerofShiloh said:
I love it how now they're trying to categorize sinners from sinners :ROFL::ROFL:
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First he says God can't love sinners, then he says He can, then he essentially accuses me
of taking his position after denying what his position was and questioning me as if I'd made
the false claims he did. He's moved the goalposts, changed his position, and misrepresented
what I've said so many times, I don't know where to look! But I do know that when I was a sinner,
God drew me with lovingkindness. I also know that Scripture says we love because He first loved us,
and that we are to confess our sins. I suppose some think they are sinless. We get that type here . :oops:
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Magenta said:
First he says God can't love sinners, then he says He can, then he essentially accuses me
of taking his position after denying what his position was and questioning me as if I'd made
the false claims he did. He's moved the goalposts, changed his position, and misrepresented
what I've said so many times, I don't know where to look! But I do know that when I was a sinner,
God drew me with lovingkindness. I also know that Scripture says we love because He first loved us,
and that we are to confess our sins. I suppose some think they are sinless. We get that type here . :oops:
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I agree. I have been following your conversation and have seen all that you have mentioned. He's very deceitful.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Magenta said:
It's unbelievable. I should have known better than to expect anything different from him.
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The people who have twisted my words, who have lied about me, who have tried to deceive me, who have stabbed me in the back were those who professed to be so holy in God and had great Biblical understanding. As sad as that is, it's hard factual reality.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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FollowerofShiloh said:
The people who have twisted my words, who have lied about me, who have tried to deceive me, who have stabbed me in the back were those who professed to be so holy in God and had great Biblical understanding. As sad as that is, it's hard factual reality.
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It is sad. There can be no real discussion with such people. You can't force them to be honest.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Magenta said:
It is sad. There can be no real discussion with such people. You can't force them to be honest.
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It doesn't mean we stop loving them, praying for them, and seek after God to help them. But it does mean we stop trusting them, expect the worse from them, and eventually have to stop contact with them.

When I take scripture, specifically how God Himself describes Who He is and the example Jesus displayed for us and I fit His words together. I see a God whose Love is so true that you can feel His pain when Israel continually sinned against Him. You could sense His frustration when He forgave them again and again and they would serve other gods. You could realize His Mercy when He would warn them of punishment but withheld it over and over. And then we see Jesus who was a man of incredible sorrow, pain, and suffering. Who was betrayed and despised but gave His life willingly for us. You see God as He truly is.

And to have people denigrate God to a level as executioner, picking and choosing people to burn eternally in a devil's Hell, as a Hitler, Mussolini, Napoleon type character. And claim this is their Great God and His Sovereignty and they justify Him as a skitzo freak. I want to physically hurt them. Because they have taken True Pure Love and formatted it into judicial justification. I really don't understand how anyone would want to serve a God like that.
 
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