Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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I posted an explanation with verses a ways back. Basically:
Ephesians 1:4 says God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. This is election or choosing. The "us" is...whom He did foreknow...in Romans 8:29. So after choosing "us", God then predetermines or predestines these to be conformed to the image of His Son.
So election deals with salvation. Predestination deals with God taking saved people and making them like Christ.
Ephesians 1:4 says God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. This is election or choosing. The "us" is...whom He did foreknow...in Romans 8:29. So after choosing "us", God then predetermines or predestines these to be conformed to the image of His Son.
So election deals with salvation. Predestination deals with God taking saved people and making them like Christ.
you missed the second part out which is he chose us to be holy and blameless.
According to calvinism they don't recognise the only time man was blameless was before the fall.
And even in front of Jesus now you would never be blameless because he would still convict you of sin if you where saved.
Then also you missed the idea that Adam was created saved before they fell.
Which means God created people to be saved first.
And also he never created people to be destined to hell first.
Lastly it just so turns out there's evidence to suggest that John Calvin never even wrote the tulip Calvin and there's really no way to know he did 500 years ago.
And also you know what else, Calvinism is hurting many people
According to calvinism they don't recognise the only time man was blameless was before the fall.
And even in front of Jesus now you would never be blameless because he would still convict you of sin if you where saved.
Then also you missed the idea that Adam was created saved before they fell.
Which means God created people to be saved first.
And also he never created people to be destined to hell first.
Lastly it just so turns out there's evidence to suggest that John Calvin never even wrote the tulip Calvin and there's really no way to know he did 500 years ago.
And also you know what else, Calvinism is hurting many people
Correct again! Some of us actually do read the scriptures with the honest intention of understanding it. This speaks to God's sovereign grace. And Paul strongly reinforces v. 15 with the next two "therefore" verses, in which Paul draws the only conclusion possible:
Rom 9:16-18
16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
NIV
And, sister, don't ever let any NR person con you into believing that God is a monster for making "arbitrary" choices. Or that he is unjust for condemning all the Pharaoh's of this word without giving them a "fighting chance" to repent and believe the gospel. First of all, God's choices are not arbitrary or capricious. Verse 17 tells us that God raises up the Pharaoh's of this world for a purpose. Everything God does is for his good pleasure and purpose because ultimately all he does is for his own glory.
And how can God be unjust to hardened, unregenerate sinners whose sin nature makes it literally impossible for them to please God (Rom 8:8)!? It's no wonder at all that Paul said what he did in v.16! Those in Adam can never have any godly desires nor can they ever do good (Rom 3:10-18). So how could God ever be unjust to such people? How can a just God be unjust by rendering to people the reward they deserve!? When ignorant people say such things, they imply that God is unjust because those in Adam deserve better treatment! They don't really deserve eternal condemnation!
Nor let anyone deceive you into thinking that God discriminates against the condemned by giving better treatment to the justified saints. That lame argument doesn't work either because of what Paul said in v.21. The elect differ in no way from the condemned; for both groups descend from Adam and, therefore, are of the same lump of clay! This is, yet, another reason why salvation does not depend on man's desire or efforts (v.16). But the Potter certainly does have the sovereign right to make two lumps from that one lump. After all, it is his clay to do with as he pleases.
Rom 9:16-18
16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
NIV
And, sister, don't ever let any NR person con you into believing that God is a monster for making "arbitrary" choices. Or that he is unjust for condemning all the Pharaoh's of this word without giving them a "fighting chance" to repent and believe the gospel. First of all, God's choices are not arbitrary or capricious. Verse 17 tells us that God raises up the Pharaoh's of this world for a purpose. Everything God does is for his good pleasure and purpose because ultimately all he does is for his own glory.
And how can God be unjust to hardened, unregenerate sinners whose sin nature makes it literally impossible for them to please God (Rom 8:8)!? It's no wonder at all that Paul said what he did in v.16! Those in Adam can never have any godly desires nor can they ever do good (Rom 3:10-18). So how could God ever be unjust to such people? How can a just God be unjust by rendering to people the reward they deserve!? When ignorant people say such things, they imply that God is unjust because those in Adam deserve better treatment! They don't really deserve eternal condemnation!
Nor let anyone deceive you into thinking that God discriminates against the condemned by giving better treatment to the justified saints. That lame argument doesn't work either because of what Paul said in v.21. The elect differ in no way from the condemned; for both groups descend from Adam and, therefore, are of the same lump of clay! This is, yet, another reason why salvation does not depend on man's desire or efforts (v.16). But the Potter certainly does have the sovereign right to make two lumps from that one lump. After all, it is his clay to do with as he pleases.
I love it how now they're trying to categorize sinners from sinners 
P.S. Notice I'm not laughing.
Romans 8:16-20
16 For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God. 17 And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God, and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to come, that shall be revealed in us. 19 For the expectation of the creature waiteth for the revelation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him that made it subject, in hope:
16 For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God. 17 And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God, and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to come, that shall be revealed in us. 19 For the expectation of the creature waiteth for the revelation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him that made it subject, in hope: