Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

For love to actually be love it requires and action. God loved, so He gave. When Christians love an action always follows.

So did people know because they read a commandment, or because they saw the commandment in action?

You always ask questions - I guess so that you won't have to answer and put people on the spot instead. Why don't you answer this yourself?


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Again the claim I came to his defense. You should retract this statement or show where I actually did so. Otherwise, you bear false witness.
As far as the rest, thanks for sharing.

NO, why should I? People just have to read your inappropriate rebuke toward @PaulThomson, like he's actually worse than Charles because he made a good judgement call. You just don't want people to make proper judgements so that we end up accepting false teaching from false teachers or give silent assent by not making proper judgment calls.


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Then you are a liar. And my rebuke had nothing to do with calling out false doctrine. It had everything to do with the manner in which it was done, and that he wasn't equipped to make a determination on who will and will not ultimately be saved.
Grace and peace.

Oh yes @PaulThomson was definitely equipped to make a good judgment call about Charles not being a real Christian based on the false claims Charles made about God right now. It's absolutely despicable that you rebuked @PaulThomson and not say anything about the heretical things Charles was continuously spewing as if his behavior makes no difference, that to you he would still be considered a Christian. (If he had the Holy Spirit, he would NOT say that God hates everyone who rejected Him and that all the babies that died when Jesus was born deserved it. So no, he's not a Christian.)

It shows you don't have the ability to make right judgment calls yourself (when God says that we can). You we're really in no position to have rebuked @PaulThomson.


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I wasn't aware that I had made any call on who will and will not be ultimately saved.

Scripture doesn't contradict. However, men get it wrong, whereas God doesn't.

One person suggests that Calvin's position is Jesus speaking because he was silent for 2,000 years. That is not true or biblical. Some here are Elevating John Calvin's position as the inspired word of God, the same as in The Gospels. That is foolishness.

John Calvin is not authoritative, nor are his words. Hypocritical reformers say Sola Scriptura yet add John Calvin to the Canon.

You make a good point in context to a conclusion with scripture harmoning. Yet Mans is limited in their ability.
The Holy Spirit leads us and guides us into all truth and brings everything Jesus has said into our remembrance.

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. " John 16:`3-24

The whole issue, as I said, is the "Ism." One can't make John Calvin into an idol. TULIP acronym



Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints


The five points without context seem pretty solid.

Total Depravity, yes, all outside of Christ are just that.

Unconditional Election: Unconditional election is God’s loving choice of specific sinners for salvation without respect for any good in them.
The issue is those who see this and take it to mean what Only God can know "specific sinners" for salvation.

The focus is not on the specific elect for salvation. The work in on the Gospel message that is able to SAVE.

Limited atonement :

The question is, Did Christ intend to atone for the sins of all people who have ever lived, or did He intend to atone for the sins of the elect only?


That is not the question to ask. Because Only God can know who will be saved. This is elitczing of scripture from asking a question
That was never said in the word of God.

The elect in the Old Testament were the called-out ones, then the Hebrews and the Jews—God's elect. YET it was faith that God asked for did he not?

Hebrews chapter 2, 11

2 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?







11

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, For he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.



Faith in Christ Saving faith and election are to all who answer the call from the Holy Spirit. We are not to be in the game of who is or who is not elect.

I don't know what sort of relationship you're talking about with God. I've never heard God talk. I don't ask God for anything in my name, as that would be silly. How do you know that He is available to me?

We pray in Jesus’ name, Charlie. If you are a Christian, Jesus is available to you. He died for you.

God said election is unconditional, so now you admit you don't believe what God said. God said atonement is limited but you don't believe what God said.
You did yell me why you don't believe what God said, but the scriptures you attempted to misapply to support your view, only served to further exposed your erroneous interpretation

Where are your scriptures, Charlie? Where does it say that election is unconditional? Where does it say that atonement is limited.

I'm not sure who your Bible teachers is, but your Arminian theology is incoherent and it's self defeating. You can't pluck Bible verses out of their intended context and superimpose them, over unrelated bible doctrines.

Your teacher should be teaching you, that scripture interprets scripture. So if something in the bible doesn't sound right to you, it doesn't give you the authority to go and search out other scriptures and use them to change the meaning of others.

I have noticed, you never deal with any of those 120 verses I gave you to prove TULIP to be biblically sound doctrine. You just scramble to find other unrelated verses and use them as weapons to destroy what God has said.

God did command His Saints, to preach the gospel to every creature. So as an elected Saint of God, I obey Him. What does that have to do with predestination? can you see how silly you sound.

God doesn't need us to do anything to fulfill His will, but He commanded us to do it anyway. So you have a problem with God and not me, I'm just His servant. You should take your complaints to Him and then we will see how good your religion is against Him.

I'm still waiting for you to explain in a coherent way how 1 Tim 2; 24-25 supports your opinion that TULIP is true. I'm waiting for you to critique my critique of your claims about what those verses are saying.

We have very different views about who God is. The God I believe in sounds nothing like the God you believe in. And since I can't convince you to believe in the God that I do and you can never convince me to believe in the one you believe in, means we've reached a stalemate.
We will see who was right and wrong on Judgement day.

Indeed we will.

Nobody has the Holy Spirit. He's not someone you can own. The Lord promised to send us a comforter, not a slave to use to fulfill our lust.
I don't even know who these "us" are that you keep going on about. My understanding is that only gods Elect are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the rest are all children of the Devil.
Nobody gets the mind of Christ until they are transformed into His image and receive their sinless eternal bodies at the resurrection. So your theology is utterly messed up and incoherent.

I’m waiting.