Charles Stanley Correction

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HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#61
If we continually reject the Holy Spirit's guidance, wisdom and power to live for God, it will come to the point where we've left Him entirely and lost our salvation.

There are many facets to salvation and being justified is a very important one you dismissed without a rebuttal.
Having a choice and being able to execute that choice need to be separated. I choose to jump up and fly doesn't mean I can.

See I have a metric Christ Jesus paid my sin debt in full 100%

A born again Christian is declared right with God, innocent, all sins paid for past, present and future.

There is absolutely not one scripture that teaches a Christian can leave his/her status of innocent, we are declared innocent because Jesus was innocent not because of anything we have done.

To say we can leave God by sinning or grieving the Holy Spirit away permanently in my view is to state Jesus was not a perfect sacrifice.

It also means Satan is still the victor because much like before the fall we can mess up and fall away based on our choice and human frailty.

You may not see this but the death and resurrection of Jesus is made insufficient to save if there is something we need to do to stay saved.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#62
Totally

It means our first joy is gone, we don't pray like we used to, we don't praise like we used, we don't enjoy fellowship so much, we neglect to read the bible ... that is falling away

.... that is a huge chunk of the church.

I lean that this has more connection to ancient Israel and the their immediate future, but I do think there are principles in Jesus' teaching that are applicable on how to be fruitful.

I need to look into this more but I know it is not about losing one's salvation, that does not exist in scripture.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#64
Exactly, either you're saved or you're not.
Amen and Amen!!
Eternal life is eternal, it is a quality of life given to us here on earth when we trust in Jesus for salvation and is not temporal but eternal!!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#65
If we continually reject the Holy Spirit's guidance, wisdom and power to live for God, it will come to the point where we've left Him entirely and lost our salvation.
At what point? How about the Corinthian believers? Paul called them carnal not spiritual because they were walking after the flesh and not the Spirit.

And yet…

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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#68
You don't actually have that eternal life right now.

Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.


So we receive eternal life at the redemption of our bodies, when the Lord Jesus returns.


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oh this is a mis-reading verse 24 "for in this hope we were saved"

they were saved

The hope is the redemption of our bodies.

I have eternal life I hope you do also ... you would surely know.
 

Evmur

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#70
No, that's just one proverb. You also have to remember the prodigal son. His father did not actively come looking for him. He came back by himself. If he never came back, his father would have just kept thinking he was dead.

You also can't ignore the prophecy that says many Christians will fall away from the faith in the end times. If I didn't think that wasn't going to happen in my lifetime, I wouldn't think it is important to encourage people to build up their faith to endure to the end.


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nah, the Father never gave up, he was there every day
and when the bad times came the son remember his Father's love and His loving kindness ... that's the Holy Ghost.

And the Good Shepherd is not just a story or a proverb. Even if it were it would only convey the truth.

We are in the Saviour's hands and no-one can take us out.

And also you are not encouraging faith, you are planting seeds of doubt. You are not building up but seeking to tear down.
 
Dec 29, 2023
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#71
James is clearly written to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. What false teacher do you know teaches this?

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

You should learn how to rightly divide the word of truth.

Yes, He was teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to his fellow Jews and since it's the Gospel of Jesus Christ the teaching in James are applicable to ALL Christians every where.

James was not teaching the law of moses to the Jews. so it is YOU who needs to rightly divide the Word of Truth and cease claiming portion of the New Testament are not applicable to Christians as this is false doctrine.



If James wasn't written to Christians, what does this mean? Are you saying Jews can't be Christians?

Like others that believe this error, the claim is James was teaching the law to Jews AFTER Jesus had already said the law was no longer being taught and the New Covenant had been established. They think Jesus does not know what He's talking about which is common these days.

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)



It was written to Jews for their time of trouble. Of course Jews can be saved, but James is not necessarily a salvation book, rather a survival guide for the tribulation. The coming of the Lord is literally at hand.

That's false doctrine from the reformers, especially Mart Luther who claims the Book of James was not part of the New Covenant. Luther and calvin both are false teachers satan used to bring in damnable heresies and those that don't allow the Holy Spirit to be their Teacher fall for the lies of reformed theology which leads to the falling away we see in the end times.

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.


Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
(referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron


Very few of these reformed theology people ever escape from false doctrine since their conscience has been seared with a hot iron causing them to not be willing to hear truth.



Only one, then no one stands a chance.

Those who turn from their sin and choose to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit based on God's Word are in right standing before the Lord.

The gospel is much more then just providing forgiveness from our sin.

The Lord's purpose in the Gospel is for men to quit walking in sin, to abide in Him being empowered thru the infilling of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to live in victory over sin. Don't you remember that We can do all things thru Christ Who strengthens us (Philippians 4:13) WHY is this promise not being accepted???

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.


Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not


1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not


1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil


John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.


1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#72
I ADORE Dr. Charles Stanley, but OSAS was one of the few things that I disagreed with.


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Correction: OSAS should read IFAS

If saved always saved.

And if you do not understand how and why, I urge you to find out.
Because ISAS is undoubtedly the case. The "first mention" type of which is noted here:

Gen 3:24
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

The man and woman were both PREVENTED from eating from the tree of life after the fall and so exist forever eternally dying.

Need we mention that the children of Israel were PREVENTED from returning to Egypt after crossing the Gulf of Aqaba as the waters rose once again?

BTW, the OT sign of the covenant of grace thru faith was circumcision. Impossible to reverse.....a one time event.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,854
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#73
Amen and Amen!!
Eternal life is eternal, it is a quality of life given to us here on earth when we trust in Jesus for salvation and is not temporal but eternal!!
Amen to that.

Eternal life is God's very definition of life. The only one there is, there is no other.
When Jesus is teaching/dialoguing about "life", He is always and without exception speaking about eternal life, the only REAL LIFE that there is.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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#74
I have read nowhere in the Bible that once I am saved I can live like my former life and still be saved. I read where being saved means I have changed. Being changed means I am no longer wanting to live like my former life. So if I choose to live like my former life after being saved and changed, I see no definitive scripture that says I have guaranteed salvation.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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#78
Why would it need to?
Because a changed person will never go back to their old self. But that video emphasizes we can do that and be saved. There's no verses that make that claim anywhere.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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#80
Yes, He was teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to his fellow Jews and since it's the Gospel of Jesus Christ the teaching in James are applicable to ALL Christians every where.
Is the following doctrine for the body of Christ?

James 5
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.