Charles Stanley Correction

[HeIsHere]

James is clearly written to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. What false teacher do you know teaches this?

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

You should learn how to rightly divide the word of truth.

I agree with you on many topics, but I do believe they were Jews who had become believers and they were in view for James.
I think this book can be understood as consistent with Paul, salvation being by grace through faith.

James has an audience who had been entitled and steeped in the old system and found it challenging to move into understanding the connection between faith and works, I think if you dig deeper do some research you can learn a lot, it has become one of my favorite letters after the Letter to the Hebrews.

 

[John146]

Right, Jewish Christians.

There are no twelve tribes in Christ. The term twelve tribes is always a reference to the nation of Israel as a whole and never a reference to a called out group from that nation. To make the term twelve tribes mean Christian Jews, would violate every other usage in scripture.

 

[John146]

I agree with you on many topics, but I do believe they were Jews who had become believers and they were in view for James.
I think this book can be understood as consistent with Paul, salvation being by grace through faith.

James has an audience who had been entitled and steeped in the old system and found it challenging to move into understanding the connection between faith and works, I think if you dig deeper do some research you can learn a lot, it has become one of my favorite letters after the Letter to the Hebrews.

see post 42, I have studied James many times, not through commentaries.

 

[HeIsHere]

see post 42, I have studied James many times, not through commentaries.

Well I do not doubt you have studied well over the years, I only meant that we always have to test our view again and again, I have only studied parts that I have troubled me.

I will have to look into what you write in post 42, but I would counter with each writer has a unique voice and that James used a common expression in time of transition to address his audience does not mean they were not Christians.

I will look into your position.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I wonder how many sins it takes to be cut off?

Only one.

No, no one loses their salvation from committing one sin. A Christian loses their salvation by leaving God. Big difference.

When a person no longer abides in the Holy Spirit who is the only one who can impower that person to live as God wants him to and is the only seal God acknowledges that we belong to Him, he's walked away from the Lord.

That's why Dr. Charles Stanley is still saved. He never left the Holy Spirit.

In my own life, God has been so involved in my life, that I could almost believe in OSAS myself. But I know it not to be true because the Lord always points out the Bible verses that this isn't true.

This ties in with the Great Apostasy in the end times. There will be a mass of Christians who will leave God because they didn't prepare to endure when the antichrist is revealed. They'll take the mark because they want to continue to buy and sell to pay bills and care for their families and avoid being executed since refusal of the mark means death.


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[John146]

Well I do not doubt you have studied well over the years, I only meant that we always have to test our view again and again, I have only studied parts that I have troubled me.

I will have to look into what you write in post 42, but I would counter with each writer has a unique voice and that James used a common expression in time of transition to address his audience does not mean they were not Christians.

I will look into your position.

One would need to spiritualize many things in James to make it fit doctrinally to the body of Christ. I’m not willing to do this. For example, does this sound like doctrine for the body of Christ?

James 4
1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

 

[HeIsHere]

A Christian loses their salvation by leaving God.

Can you explain to me how you can undo the status of 'justified' which is conferred by God.

Do you have the authority to over rule the pronouncement of a judge of not guilty and make yourself guilty again?

Let's avoid eschatology because that will only muddy the waters and I want to stay on topic.

And secondly this is not personal I am just defending the truth of scripture and I think that ultimately for all of us understanding the security of salvation is much better that trying to stay saved.

 

[ResidentAlien]

There are no twelve tribes in Christ. The term twelve tribes is always a reference to the nation of Israel as a whole and never a reference to a called out group from that nation. To make the term twelve tribes mean Christian Jews, would violate every other usage in scripture.

Well, James is clearly writing to Christians, and they're Jewish; therefore, Jewish Christians. If you want to make it complicated go right ahead. To me it's not complicated at all.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Can you explain to me how you can undo the status of 'justified' which is conferred by God.

Do you have the authority to over rule the pronouncement of a judge of not guilty and make yourself guilty again?

Let's avoid eschatology because that will only muddy the waters and I want to stay on topic.

And secondly this is not personal I am just defending the truth of scripture and I think that ultimately for all of us understanding the security of salvation is much better that trying to stay saved.

This literally has nothing to do with being declared not guilty. It all has to do with a person leaving God. God still gives us that choice in this age. The Holy Spirit is the seal over us that God acknowledges that we belong to Him. He's also the one who impowers us to live godly lives for the Lord. If we continually reject the Holy Spirit's guidance, wisdom and power to live for God, it will come to the point where we've left Him entirely and lost our salvation.

On the flip side, it's not hard to KEEP your salvation, you know. Just remain in God, don't resist His work in you and you'll be fine.


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[selahsays]

Ahh yes I see too.
Good call!!

Very good call.

 

[Evmur]

Here's a good video that refutes some of the teachings Charles Stanley taught

Saved means saved.

if you say we could subsequently be lost then the bible would use another word. God does not use words carelessly.

Paul says "by grace ye are saved ..." He could not say it if they were merely on probation. Everywhere the NT attests that we are born again, now children of God, sons and heirs, guaranteed by the Holy Spirit.

You are saying you don't know if you are saved ... how can you show someone else the way? you are not sure, you are double minded, unsteadfast, on sandy soil.

Now you are depending upon yourself to stay saved ... good luck with that.

... this is ragged pants territory.

 

[Evmur]

Me? I believe in OSAS. …. ‘cause the Bible tells me so.

Amen sis, it doesn't say once saved always saved but it says we have ETERNAL LIFE .... it should last until Christmas I reckons

 

[Evmur]

I have read it is a reference to a loss of fellowship with God for a season, which I can see.
As well, I have read that being cut off refers to chastening.

I do think Jesus is linking the vine to ancient Israel and a bit of a forewarning on what is about what is going to happen within that generation.

Totally

It means our first joy is gone, we don't pray like we used to, we don't praise like we used, we don't enjoy fellowship so much, we neglect to read the bible ... that is falling away

.... that is a huge chunk of the church.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)

What about those who are not His sheep? But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. (John 10:26)

Yes I believe that verse my sheep here my voice has been taken completely out of context.

I'm in full agreement with you here.

Which is why I'm asking do people have free will to bring that verse into disrepute.

Or is it free wickedness.


I'm not so sure free will exists in a person

 

[Evmur]

No, no one loses their salvation from committing one sin. A Christian loses their salvation by leaving God. Big difference.

When a person no longer abides in the Holy Spirit who is the only one who can impower that person to live as God wants him to and is the only seal God acknowledges that we belong to Him, he's walked away from the Lord.

That's why Dr. Charles Stanley is still saved. He never left the Holy Spirit.

In my own life, God has been so involved in my life, that I could almost believe in OSAS myself. But I know it not to be true because the Lord always points out the Bible verses that this isn't true.

This ties in with the Great Apostasy in the end times. There will be a mass of Christians who will leave God because they didn't prepare to endure when the antichrist is revealed. They'll take the mark because they want to continue to buy and sell to pay bills and care for their families and avoid being executed since refusal of the mark means death.


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This is so simple to understand

The Good Shepherd had 100 sheep, one was lost, He put the 99 in safety and went after that one who was lost and He found Him and brought him home rejoicing.

... that's it, 100% what do you want?

 

[Evmur]

Can you explain to me how you can undo the status of 'justified' which is conferred by God.

Do you have the authority to over rule the pronouncement of a judge of not guilty and make yourself guilty again?

Let's avoid eschatology because that will only muddy the waters and I want to stay on topic.

And secondly this is not personal I am just defending the truth of scripture and I think that ultimately for all of us understanding the security of salvation is much better that trying to stay saved.

glory

... how are they going to uncrucify themselves?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

This is so simple to understand

The Good Shepherd had 100 sheep, one was lost, He put the 99 in safety and went after that one who was lost and He found Him and brought him home rejoicing.

... that's it, 100% what do you want?

No, that's just one proverb. You also have to remember the prodigal son. His father did not actively come looking for him. He came back by himself. If he never came back, his father would have just kept thinking he was dead.

You also can't ignore the prophecy that says many Christians will fall away from the faith in the end times. If I didn't think that wasn't going to happen in my lifetime, I wouldn't think it is important to encourage people to build up their faith to endure to the end.


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[John146]

Well, James is clearly writing to Christians, and they're Jewish

Can you prove this? You are making the term "twelve tribes" into Christians. Nowhere in the bible is that term used in reference to Jewish believers. Nowhere. I'm not willing to violate scripture in order to make James a doctrinal book to the body of Christ.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Amen sis, it doesn't say once saved always saved but it says we have ETERNAL LIFE .... it should last until Christmas I reckons

You don't actually have that eternal life right now.

Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.


So we receive eternal life at the redemption of our bodies, when the Lord Jesus returns.


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[GRACE_ambassador]

Me? I believe in OSAS. …. ‘cause the Bible tells me so.

At least two (or more) of us, eh? - Because of:

Christ's ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross!

God Gives An All-Sufficient Multitude Of Scriptures For:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Thus, with @John146, Neither am I "willing to Cancel OUT"
All These Plain and Clear Scriptures for the:

critic's Few Misunderstood/Mistranslated/Misrepresented verses?

Rule # 6 of Bible study Rules!

Amen.