Predestination is misunderstood...

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Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things that were commanded of you, say, We are unprofitable servants...Luke 17:10.
In context, that speaks of one wishing to receive special privileges with God simply for doing the works that He expects of you.



Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied
around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. So watch yourselves.
If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying
‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
He replied, “If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree,
‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it will obey you.
“Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant
when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? Won’t he rather say,
‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may
eat and drink’? Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do?
So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say,
‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”

God says to witness.. ?

You do not do that as to gain special favor with God.
It was expected as a normal thing to do.



‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”

What deserves God's favor is seeing more and more of Christ being reflected in you!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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see once again the truth get revealed and once again it's rejected.

For 5 while pages I asked people to make the suggestion, knowing fine well if I had made the suggestion it would get rejected.

Well looky here then

That's exactly what's happening all over again..

Did they or did they not speak the truth in there fallen state.

Did they or did they not have the truth still in them in there fallen state.


Then when you can answer this.

Is the truth still in satan, and is he deserving of God love.

If ye can not answer theese questions with out disagreement then ye have no truth in you.


The truth was still in Adam and eve which made them still deserving Of God's love.

Do ye understand this
Lost people speak truth. Not one of us is deserving of God's love, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The truth is still in Adam...what truth?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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In context, that speaks of one wishing to receive special privileges with God simply for doing the works that He expects of you.



Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied
around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. So watch yourselves.
If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying
‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
He replied, “If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree,
‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it will obey you.
“Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant
when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? Won’t he rather say,
‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may
eat and drink’? Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do?
So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say,
‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”

God says to witness.. ?

You do not do that as to gain special favor with God.
It was expected as a normal thing to do.



‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”

What deserves God's favor is seeing more and more of Christ being reflected in you!
I disagree with your premise. But further, Christ's reflection in an individual is not the work of the individual...it is God at work in you, willing and doing of His good pleasure...Philippians 2:13. We cannot make ourselves like Christ. Thus, all the deservedness is always accrued to God, as He is both the author of life in us and the perfecter of what we become. He is the Potter who crafts our vessels to honor. We are His workmanship.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Lost people speak truth. Not one of us is deserving of God's love, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The truth is still in Adam...what truth?
where talking about Adam and eve not everybody else where talking them at this moment.

They spoke the truth to God.

After they spoke the truth to God.

Who was punished first.


God punished the serpent first, knowing that what Adam and Eve had just told him was the truth.

If the truth was not in Adam and Eve after there fallen state how did he know it was the truth.

Through scripture Upto this point God chose to not know what man would do next.

So how did he know Adam and eve where speaking the truth.

Why would they even speak the truth if the truth was not in them.

The point is they told the truth to God and confessed what they did, something Satan does not do.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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You keep listening to the coach of the other team wearing your home team uniform.

God will not stop being omniscient.
I have no idea what your talking about.

The serpent was punished in the garden of eden

Think about this Are you going to Tel me God punished satan in the garden after he had already been Judged and cast down to earth.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
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So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things that were commanded of you, say, We are unprofitable servants...Luke 17:10.
Context. Luke 17:9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not.

Do we thank ourselves for being new creatures in Christ? I think not and nor has anyone said so.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Context. Luke 17:9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not.

Do we thank ourselves for being new creatures in Christ? I think not and nor has anyone said so.
Right...because he is nothing more than a servant. We are nothing more than servants. Anything worthy in us is produced by God and He gets the recognition and glory for it. But it's not just simply in salvation. It is everything...For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou didst not receive?...1 Corinthians 4:7.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,411
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So you feal all you deserve from God is death
The word is "feel", not "feal", and no, feelings have nothing to do with it. It's what I know from Scripture...

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death".
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Predestination has nothing to do with free will.
Sure it does. Our free will decision to believe qualifies us as partakers in the predetermined plan of God which is redemption in Jesus Christ.

The overwhelming undeniable evidence of Who Christ is and why He "arrived" is set before everyone. Some confess this as true (Who Christ truly is is and what we truly are) and receive Him for salvation. Some do not.

The "do not's" love darkness rather than light. A free will choice of what master to serve.

God is dealing with sin in two ways: salvation and separation.

Eventually comes the division between light and darkness, life and death, sheep and goats, saved and unsaved, God's kingdom and the lake of fire.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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The word is "feel", not "feal", and no, feelings have nothing to do with it. It's what I know from Scripture...

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death".
Does the verse you post say your not deserving of God love.




Ephesians 2:4-9

English Standard Version



4 But[a] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses

This verse says that when you where in a state of death he was still loving you.




Then there this


Romans 11:22

English Standard Version



22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.


Notice providing you are kind hearted henwill continue to love you, which is deserving of his love.


Then theres this

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Would you like some more,

Or is this enough for you.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Sure it does. Our free will decision to believe qualifies us as partakers in the predetermined plan of God which is redemption in Jesus Christ.

The overwhelming undeniable evidence of Who Christ is and why He "arrived" is set before everyone. Some confess this as true (Who Christ truly is is and what we truly are) and receive Him for salvation. Some do not.

The "do not's" love darkness rather than light. A free will choice of what master to serve.

God is dealing with sin in two ways: salvation and separation.

Eventually comes the division between light and darkness, life and death, sheep and goats, saved and unsaved, God's kingdom and the lake of fire.
no such thing as human free will, God has imprisoned his own will in all mankind, because its his life to imprison, his life to take and his life to give
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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The serpent was punished in the garden of eden
The serpent was judged and condemned. However of Satan was allowed to do his free will to this very preset day.......within limitations set by God.

The final punishment has yet to be meted out: separation forever into the lake of fire.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,867
8,333
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no such thing as human free will, God has imprisoned his own will in all mankind, because its his life to imprison, his life to take and his life to give
That is the ultimate and fundamental lie of Satan: That there is no free will and God is the author of evil. This is the lie Satan was "merchandising", drawing away one third of the Angels with it.

The facts of which I could demonstrate from Scripture beyond a shadow of a doubt.

You had better be careful because talk like that will condemn a man.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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The serpent was judged and condemned. However of Satan was allowed to do his free will to this very preset day.......within limitations set by God.

The final punishment has yet to be meted out: separation forever into the lake of fire.
God punished the serpent in the Garden.

If.your saying God punished satan in the garden then that means satan was acting against his limitations.

Do you see how stupid that is.

There is no such thing as human free will,


would you like me show you where God has imprisoned his will in all mankind.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Stating disagreement is not "getting in your cheap remarks where you can". It also is not evidence that my "heart is set on disagreement". It is merely declaring that your position is objectively wrong.
Jesus had that kind of problem with Peter....

Peter thought for sure he was doing a very good thing...
But?



He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things
and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law,
and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. He spoke plainly
about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.
Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said.
“This shall never happen to you!”
But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter.
“Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns
of God, but merely human concerns.”
Mark 8:31-33 + Matthew 16:22​


To the typical person if he were watching what happened take place..
Peter would have appeared to have been very noble hearted in what he declared to the Lord.

But.. To the Lord?

Peter lacked Bible doctrine in his thinking and was till thinking with human viewpoint.
Peter lacked Divine viewpoint....
As a result?

The Lord rebuked and publicly humiliated Peter.
Peter was being inspired by Satan's way of thinking.

That's the kind of problem some will have until they finally learn enough Bible doctrine.
They will be insulted and will find others to agree with them.....

Jesus rebuked Peter for what some out of ignorance would see as a very noble intention.
Rebuked by even calling Peter, " Satan. "

That can bed the state of younger believers who do not yet understand why someone might disagree with them.
Can not understand because their human viewpoint intention seems so right to them.

Its part of the workings within the body of Christ that takes place as we all find ourselves maturing at different rates.

Jesus said to love one another as He loved them..... Calling Peter "Satan" was loving Peter, because Peter needed to be jolted
out of his self approving mindset that others would have also approved him for having...

grace and peace ...............
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,411
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Does the verse you post say your not deserving of God love.
No; it says that the wages of sin is death. Wages are an obligation, what is deserved, as it states in Luke 10:7 "for the worker deserves his wages" and Romans 4:4 "Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation."

Ephesians 2: 4 But[a] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses

This verse says that when you where in a state of death he was still loving you.
But it does not say that we deserved His love, nor do the other verses you posted.

Notice providing you are kind hearted he will continue to love you, which is deserving of his love.
Dead wrong. Just because God loves us does NOT mean that we deserve His love. Not even a little.

"If something is deserved, it has been earned by what somebody has done or how they have behaved" (Oxford Dictionary).

Our sin has earned death. We deserve death. Everything short of death is God's grace, mercy and love. It really is that simple.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
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Sure it does. Our free will decision to believe qualifies us as partakers in the predetermined plan of God which is redemption in Jesus Christ.
Backtracking…then yes, I would agree.👍