Predestination is misunderstood...

So your saying you would give your life savings away to anyone.

Perhaps. I've done it before. That's why I told you at the outset it is not as much as you suppose.

Perhaps you would, but perhaps suggests you would need to think about it first.

Generally speaking cameron people give there life savings to there family first..

Now would they give they're life savings to there family first before anyone Cameron.

Then when you can answer that Question Cameron, answer why would life's saving in a will only be given away when death as fell.

Perhaps just means I would pray before doing so. But if the Lord confirmed the request, I have no problem giving anything away. I'm a simple steward. It's not mine to begin with. I'm tasked to improve what God gives me stewardship over. Using money and assets to break yokes of other people is capital improvements in the kingdom of God.
Now I'm not under the allusion that this mindset is widespread, but it should be. So no, I don't believe most people live this way. Your own scepticism leads me to believe you haven't found this to be the case with those you know. Doesn't make it any less true.

Ok Cameron have it your way.

I read that and see the gift as the unmerited favour. Grace is the means by which that favour is delivered.

I was taught the term "undeserved kindness" and I learnt to question that definition very early on in my Christian walk. Not because it didn't have that element in it, but with all the other places grace is mentioned, I recognised it was more than kindness at work.

Grace is real power which is why the arrogant are resisted by God and not given more grace. God's will gets done in the world and especially in the believer by means of His grace.

Its God's purpose to give us grace..
Grace is to get us to where His Grace intends for us to become at maturity in Christ.

Romans 8:29


Its His own purpose to get us to conform to the image of His Son.
But?
The only believers who "merit" grace are humble believers.




Its only believers with humility that finds merit with God!
Its the proud believer that finds God refusing to give grace!


So? Grace is not unmerited! The proud do not merit it.


.........."but keeps on giving grace to the humble."

Receiving God's grace is conditional.
For one must merit receiving grace by having humility!

For the proud believers are refused grace by God.
The proud do not merit God's grace.

Saying "unmerited favor" sounds so good to the ears...

Knowledge of God's Word, when we are needing correction, will over ride how we feel good about a matter,
no matter how good what we used to believe made us feel...

Its just like those who love how they feel to say 'Mary is the mother of God.'

With that in mind...

............................ wishing you greater grace and peace!

So.... Our believing in Christ merited nothing in God's eyes?

Having faith pleases God!

Its our soul's believing that begins God's flowing of the grace we need to be growing in knowledge and understanding.

Sad to report..

Hyper Calvinism was an attempt to resolve the seeming dilemma we face when we realize that God is omniscient.
Its influence has crept into the minds of many in the body of Christ today.... Not just those who call themselves Calvinists.

Yet? If God allowed for the Catholics to test his humble ones?
Calvinism is the 102 course in such testing.

grace and peace ................

Cameron.... just give him your 2 cents, and be over with it.

If anything...

The Cross was God's unmerited favor!

You believing in God is all due to grace. Have you read Ephesians 2:8-9. It's not of you. There's nothing for any of us to boast in.

Exercising faith once we are saved is the only way to please God, but that is only done as Christ lives through us. We can do nothing apart from Him. Still nothing for us to boast about.

It's always about what God does, and not us. Otherwise, we are living to our glory, and not His glory.

2 Corinthians 10:17...Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord...

It's not about Calvin, or me, or you. It's about Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Because the giving of grace is unmerited before it is received. But there may be an expected response to receiving that grace after receiving it..

Where is there boasting to be found in believing in Christ?

That would be like a half starving man boasting that he ate a meal from the Church soup kitchen down the street that is welcoming all to partake.

But if grace produces in you what God finds merit in?
The next increment of grace given is because one now merits grace.
That is why the humble ones go from grace to grace! Ending up being with what is called, "greater grace!"






Grace is given on the basis of what grace has already produced in the believer's ongoing transformation.

It looks like you might have to let go of that Calvinism bug you caught....
For some take great pride in claiming to be unworthy for God after they are saved..

But we should not think of ourselves as being worthy, or as unworthy.
For we should be too busy being occupied with the process of God's transformation taking place as God keeps giving us more and more grace...

Grace expands our capacity. And, in return, our expanded capacity opens a next door for even more grace!




Greater grace keeps on adding more and more weight and mass to our spiritual flywheel...

grace and peace ................

You were the one boasting in believing.

1 Timothy 1:14-16

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition



14 And the grace (unmerited favor and blessing) of our Lord [actually] flowed out superabundantly and beyond measure for me, accompanied by faith and love that are [to be realized] in Christ Jesus.

This is the amplified version, and as you can see it's an insertion, by someone defining grace to how they want it be to known, and not how God defines it.

It's no wonder so many are in the opinion, you really can't blame them.

But what really is annoying is the fact that scripture should not be added to like this, as they have done in the amplified bible.

I never heard any boasting. I heard a sane response to the grace of God. Afterall, to believe in God is what we are designed to do is it not?

Go back and reread his post. He said: So our believing in Christ merited nothing in God's eyes?

Well according to The gospel its not enough to just to believe Cameron


Luke 24:45-47

New International Version

Jesus own words

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem..


This clearly says after the cross that after Jesus is risen, unless a person repents and believes he will perish.

And it's the same before the cross


Luke 13:3

New International Version

Jesus own words.


3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


Tell me Cameron which one is it, must we only believe Jesus will forgive us without repenting and he will pour our his grace on us.


Or must we repent first before he pours out his grace on us.

It looks like it's saying after Jesus is risen you must repent in his name to receive Grace, or would you say all you have to do is believe and you will automatically be forgiven, without the need to repent.

Don't you have to be forgiven before you can receive Grace.

Then I also have to remind you I can' only see merited favour here.

I've just heard a sermon that people don't actually have to repent, what do you think about that. 🤔

When you think anyone else can do it too?