The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It

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JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#361
Jul 2, 2011
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jamessb said:
That is not a reasonable reply to either my post or the OP. The discussion is about obedience to the torah.
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When people are dialoging and in a forum, they oft time receive notifications which are to be replied to. Bing obliged to use the option of text aloud, I am not so privileged to go through all of the thread, theus I understand quite well why many, most, here will reply to the posts within a given thread due to those notifications. If this were wrong, they would all say we must reply to the OP only,.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#362
Jul 2, 2011
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#362
Magenta said:
Do you believe the 613 mitzvot are written on anyone's heart?

Do you believe that is what Scripture teaches?
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Only those laws which are contained in love. This nullifies many but not all.
 
V

vassal

Well-known member
#363
Jan 20, 2024
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#363
jamessb said:
The Old Covenant was a conditional or bilateral agreement that God made with the Israelites. The Old Covenant was in effect during the dispensation of the Law. It is "old" in comparison to the New Covenant. (www.gotquestions.org)

The Old Covenant, unlike the new, was a physical (earth) based agreement that was initially made at Mount Sinai with the children of Israel. It required obedience to the letter of God's law. (biblestudy.org)

The Old Covenant is a formal, binding contract between God and Israel, initiated by God at Mount Sinai. It includes God's preexisting laws, civil statutes, and judgments, as well as Israel's agreement to follow God's commands. (lifehopeandtruth.com)

The old covenant was given for a limited time. Galatians 3 says that the old covenant, or the law, was meant to lead us to Christ. It was like a schoolmaster, teaching God's people to look ahead to Jesus and the promise of the gospel. (https:corechristianity.com)
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jamessb said:
Do you really think that I am going to explain the entire New Covenant in one post? Seriously? I recommend that you read the New Testament, beginning with Romans, to understand it.

Go ahead and prove (from the Bible) that the Old Covenant was not bound to Jews only.
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I sill reply later tonight or tomorrow, i have guests arriving,

peace.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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#364
JaumeJ said:
Only those laws which are contained in love. This nullifies many but not all.
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So the answer is no, 613 mitzvot are not written on our hearts as Soyeong falsely asserts. Thank you.
 
S

Soyeong

Active member
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Oct 11, 2023
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#365
Magenta said:
Why does it make sense to you for God to write laws on our hearts that cannot be obeyed?
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Why do you think that God gave laws with the condition “when you enter the land…” while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years?

Magenta said:
Why do you claim God has written these laws on our hearts then?
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Because Jeremiah 31:33 states that the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts. Why do you want to be a member of a covenant that involves God
Putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts while not wanting to follow the Torah?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#366
Soyeong said:
Why do you think that God gave laws with the condition “when you enter the land…” while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years?
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Do you always evade answering questions? The Israelites did enter the land, just as God said they would, future tense. Do you have trouble grasping tenses? Or conditions? Actually, it is obvious you do, since the OC is not applicable any more, being made obsolete because it has been replaced with a New Covenant. Your assertion that 613 laws have been written on anybody's heart remains as ridiculous today as when ever you first decided to believe it.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#367
Jun 30, 2015
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#367
Soyeong said:
No you're not holding me to the Torah, but rather you are holding me to. your absurd and unjust standard.
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You claim to follow the Law. I'm just reminding you what the Law requires.

Soyeong said:
Why does it make sense to you to think that the way to be forgiven is by refusing to obey God?
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Why does it make sense to you to disobey parts of the Law but claim to follow the Law?

Soyeong said:
We are not required to follow laws when the conditions under which they should be followed are not met, such as with us not being required to follow laws in regard to temple practice when there is no temple in which to practice them.
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Prove it with Scripture. My Bible says otherwise.

Soyeong said:
Likewise, men are not required to follow the laws in regard to having a period or to giving birth.
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Obviously.

Soyeong said:
There are example in the Bible where this was not a problem, so this should be obvious to you, but you refuse to approach God's word with understanding.
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With your misunderstanding, yes, absolutely.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
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Mar 17, 2022
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#368
Soyeong said:
No you're not holding me to the Torah, but rather you are holding me to. your absurd and unjust standard. Why does it make sense to you to think that the way to be forgiven is by refusing to obey God? We are not required to follow laws when the conditions under which they should be followed are not met, such as with us not being required to follow laws in regard to temple practice when there is no temple in which to practice them. Likewise, men are not required to follow the laws in regard to having a period or to giving birth. There are example in the Bible where this was not a problem, so this should be obvious to you, but you refuse to approach God's word with understanding.
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You don't need a temple to offer up sacrifices and offerings.

Exodus 20:24-26
You shall make an altar of earth for Me, and you shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen; in every place where I cause My name to be remembered, I will come to you and bless you. And if you make an altar of stone for Me, you shall not build it of cut stones, for if you wield your chisel on it, you will profane it. And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it.

Soyeong, is the Levitical priesthood still valid?
 
J

jamessb

Active member
#369
Feb 10, 2024
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#369
JaumeJ said:
When people are dialoging and in a forum, they oft time receive notifications which are to be replied to. Bing obliged to use the option of text aloud, I am not so privileged to go through all of the thread, theus I understand quite well why many, most, here will reply to the posts within a given thread due to those notifications. If this were wrong, they would all say we must reply to the OP only,.
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Congratulations on forming a run-on sentence!
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#370
Dino246 said:
You claim to follow the Law. I'm just reminding you what the Law requires.


Why does it make sense to you to disobey parts of the Law but claim to follow the Law?


Prove it with Scripture. My Bible says otherwise.


Obviously.


With your misunderstanding, yes, absolutely.
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This is an excellent post. The other poster actually points out that what the law requires is more than he can reasonably do. He was so close to understanding. But rather than turn from the law and find Christ, he finds a version of the law for himself that is more reasonable to him.
Makes me think of Agrippa with Paul...almost persuaded. Yeoman's work on your part.
 
V

vassal

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jamessb said:
Do you really think that I am going to explain the entire New Covenant in one post? Seriously? I recommend that you read the New Testament, beginning with Romans, to understand it.

Go ahead and prove (from the Bible) that the Old Covenant was not bound to Jews only.
Click to expand...
you explained the old covenant in a few lines, the new covenant is very easy to explain;
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.


As for the old covenant, foreigners, hired servants and sojourners could be part of the old covenant, they could follow the Israelites and live with them if they followed the law of Moses; see exodus 24: 43-51.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#373
The law was not given to show us how. But to show us how we failed.

No one has kept the law. as jesus said, why do you call me good. no one is good but God.
 
V

vassal

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Jan 20, 2024
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vassal said:
you explained the old covenant in a few lines, the new covenant is very easy to explain;
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.


As for the old covenant, foreigners, hired servants and sojourners could be part of the old covenant, they could follow the Israelites and live with them if they followed the law of Moses; see exodus 24: 43-51.
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As for the old covenant, foreigners, hired servants and sojourners could be part of the old covenant, they could follow the Israelites and live with them if they followed the law of Moses; see exodus 24: 43-51

a mistake last paragraph, see Exodus 12: 43-52 not Exodus 24.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Most people don't even obey the posted speed laws, the stop your vehicle to a complete stop at stop sign laws, the move over when someone is on the shoulder of the road law, but in here acting like they can obey God's 613 laws.

This Thread should be in the joke section.
 
J

jamessb

Active member
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Feb 10, 2024
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#377
vassal said:
you explained the old covenant in a few lines, the new covenant is very easy to explain;
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.


As for the old covenant, foreigners, hired servants and sojourners could be part of the old covenant, they could follow the Israelites and live with them if they followed the law of Moses; see exodus 24: 43-51.
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Jeremiah 31:31-33 (in English)...
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people."

How can you possibly think that this is not referring to the people of Israel???
 
V

vassal

Well-known member
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Jan 20, 2024
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#378
jamessb said:
Jeremiah 31:31-33 (in English)...
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people."

How can you possibly think that this is not referring to the people of Israel???
Click to expand...
are you under the new covenant or not at all?
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Cameron143 said:
The purple ones.
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The ones he spoke when he arrived the one law he promised to speak

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

…Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3, 6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law he promised that would pardon and save …..the everlasting covenant he promised to make

Not this law which was hundreds of years before

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Written on the heart “ means we heard and believe it truly
 
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