The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It

[Dino246]

Why does it make sense to you to think that a just God demands obedience to laws even when they can't be obeyed? There are examples in the Bible of people being forgiven without offering sacrifices.

You are the one arguing for obedience to the Torah. You answer the question. I'm just holding you to account for the content of Scripture you CLAIM to follow... but obviously don't.

 

[JaumeJ]

We must consider that all who call upon the Lamb of God, Jesus, Yeshua, in Spirit and Truth, have a constant advocate to the Father for any transgression as long as it is truly repented, for the Lamb of God is the only sacrifice for sin.

It is moot to say a person who believes in obeying God is not forgiven when he or she loves His Lamb.

 

[Magenta]

Why does it make sense to you to think that a just God demands obedience to laws even when they can't be obeyed? There are examples in the Bible of people being forgiven without offering sacrifices.

Why does it make sense to you for God to write laws on our hearts that cannot be obeyed?

 

[Soyeong]

You are the one arguing for obedience to the Torah. You answer the question. I'm just holding you to account for the content of Scripture you CLAIM to follow... but obviously don't.

No you're not holding me to the Torah, but rather you are holding me to. your absurd and unjust standard. Why does it make sense to you to think that the way to be forgiven is by refusing to obey God? We are not required to follow laws when the conditions under which they should be followed are not met, such as with us not being required to follow laws in regard to temple practice when there is no temple in which to practice them. Likewise, men are not required to follow the laws in regard to having a period or to giving birth. There are example in the Bible where this was not a problem, so this should be obvious to you, but you refuse to approach God's word with understanding.

 

[Magenta]

We are not required to follow laws when the conditions under which they should be followed are not met, such as with us not being required to follow laws in regard to temple practice when there is no temple in which to practice them.

Why do you claim God has written these laws on our hearts then?

 

[JaumeJ]

The laws written or inscribed upon our hearts are those which are taken from stone tablets to be put on the tablets of our hearts..

These ten commandments include loving God with all of our heart, soul,mind and understanding.

Any who have studied the written laws given to Moses will see immediately which laws are composing love, love of god, love of our enemy and love of our brethren.

Love has not been fulfilled unless we love eternally.

 

[Magenta]

The laws written or inscribed upon our hearts are those which are taken from stone tablets to be put on the tablets of our hearts..

That is not what Soyeong says. They say the 613 mitzvot are written on our hearts.

 

[JaumeJ]

Manty of the 613 are obviously the content of love, when we understand the others are not of love and mercy, we may continue with those that are. We eo them as the new natured person we have become, though we are not the Perfect One at doing so..

We are not given to punish or judge to punichment anyone, but if this need be taught, then the student has not yet learned all there is to understand. By obeying Jesus to the letter we would be perfect, however we are not yet perfected, ergo we need the Lamb of God until our day of uniting with Him, and what a glorious day that will be.

 

[Magenta]

Manty of the 613

Do you believe the 613 mitzvot are written on anyone's heart?

Do you believe that is what Scripture teaches?

 

[vassal]

The laws written or inscribed upon our hearts are those which are taken from stone tablets to be put on the tablets of our hearts..

These ten commandments include loving God with all of our heart, soul,mind and understanding.

Any who have studied the written laws given to Moses will see immediately which laws are composing love, love of god, love of our enemy and love of our brethren.

Love has not been fulfilled unless we love eternally.

The laws may be inscribed in your heart, you belong to God it is evident to me, but know many wont obey the lord and will not follow the commandments but claim to believe in Jesus yet do not do the Father's will, even if the penalty of the law is paid in full they still refuse directions and do not follow his word. Many claim falsely that the commandments are no longer applicable, how wrong they are

Jesus said clearly, if you love me, follow my commandments, the same applies to the gentiles, as proof, he sent the disciples to the rest of the world. Jesus warned us about lawlessness.

We have to stop doing what we want and do what GOD asks us to do above all else and because we love him above all else.

Blessings Brother

 

[jamessb]

All the law which yet should be applied is included in the laws of love which have been inscribed upon the hearts of all who believe Jesus Yeshua..

Again, learn what Jesus Yeshua has taught us all and you will know this is so, for He has taught us by His Example and His supffering and His triumph for all who truly believe Him.

That is not a reasonable reply to either my post or the OP. The discussion is about obedience to the torah.

 

[jamessb]

The laws may be inscribed in your heart, you belong to God it is evident to me, but know many wont obey the lord and will not follow the commandments but claim to believe in Jesus yet do not do the Father's will, even if the penalty of the law is paid in full they still refuse directions and do not follow his word. Many claim falsely that the commandments are no longer applicable, how wrong they are
You're either

Jesus said clearly, if you love me, follow my commandments, the same applies to the gentiles, as proof, he sent the disciples to the rest of the world. Jesus warned us about lawlessness.

We have to stop doing what we want and do what GOD asks us to do above all else and because we love him above all else.

Blessings Brother

You're either under the OT law or you're under the NT grace. You can't be both!

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes."

 

[vassal]

You're either under the OT law or you're under the NT grace. You can't be both!

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes."

Well we have a major contradiction in scripture then, who will you believe? or are some interpretations faulty?

Remember Paul also said the law is good and just!

 

[jamessb]

Well we have a major contradiction in scripture then, who will you believe? or are some interpretations faulty?

Remember Paul also said the law is good and just!

There is no contradiction, just a lack of understanding. It is critically important to whom words are spoken or written.

a) The law is good and just.
b) Christians are not under the law, but under grace.

The Old Covenant applies to the Jews only. The New Covenant applies to all who have accepted Christ as their savior.

 

[CS1]

It is contradictory to think both that Gentiles were freed from the Torah and that Gentiles were never under the Torah, though both positions are wrong. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which means that if Gentiles were freed from that requirement, then Gentiles have no need of the Gospel and have no need for Jesus to have need for Jesus to have himself to free us form all lawlessness.


That is a false dichotomy, but rather God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law (Psalms 119:29-30, Exodus 33:13, Genesis 6:8-9, Romans 1:5, Titus 2:11-13). Likewise, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law (Romans 8:4-7).

Indeed and I have repented.

Jesus is God's word made flesh, so saying that he is the only way to salvation is the same as saying that us embodying God's word through following his example of obedience to it is the only way to salvation. It is contradictory to think that we are saved by faith in God's word made flesh, but not by faith in God's word. The way to put Jesus on the shelf is by putting God's word on the shelf. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20) while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject what he accomplished through the cross.


Jesus did not end the Sermon on the Mount by telling us to have good luck or by telling us that he was just kidding about doing all those things, but rather he ended it by saying:

Matthew 7:24-27 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need to have perfect obedience or as something that is impossible for us to do. Moreover, there are many examples in the Bible of people who did keep God's law, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14.

1. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so saying that he is the only way to salvation is the same as saying that us embodying God's word through following his example of obedience to it is the only way to salvation.


No, it is not. You can't even obey God and have it acceptable without Christ as the Lord of your life. You broke the law. You said you repented. OK, Jesus still has to pay for you breaking the law. The repenting was to God, which was accepted because of the Blood of Jesus, not your obedience to the law. Are they saved by the law or the Blood of Jesus? The law did not save you.

Did not God say the Law would be written on our hearts? So if it is not in you, then you can't obey it.

 

[vassal]

There is no contradiction, just a lack of understanding. It is critically important to whom words are spoken or written.

a) The law is good and just.
b) Christians are not under the law, but under grace.

The Old Covenant applies to the Jews only. The New Covenant applies to all who have accepted Christ as their savior.

for point B) let me put in my understanding, Christians are not under the penalty of the law is they repent, but under the grace of GOD.

Speaking of Grace, it is by the Grace of GOD that we exit, we breathe and live. He made us in His Image, this was made known to us since the beginning of GOD's creation, we owe GOD everything.

Jesus was clear, commandments for everyone, I have no doubt. We simply have different understanding.

I have a question, What are the differences between the old and new covenant?

 

[jamessb]

for point B) let me put in my understanding, Christians are not under the penalty of the law is they repent, but under the grace of GOD.

Speaking of Grace, it is by the Grace of GOD that we exit, we breathe and live. He made us in His Image, this was made known to us since the beginning of GOD's creation, we owe GOD everything.

Jesus was clear, commandments for everyone, I have no doubt. We simply have different understanding.

I have a question, What are the differences between the old and new covenant?

The Old Covenant is the law and is binding on the Jews only.
The New Covenant is spiritual. Believers have their sins forgiven and become a part of Christ.

 

[vassal]

The Old Covenant is the law and is binding on the Jews only.
The New Covenant is spiritual. Believers have their sins forgiven and become a part of Christ.

What does the new covenant say or do you want to avoid the question?

Also I can prove by quoting scripture that the old covenant was not bound to Jews only if you want.

Peace

 

[jamessb]

What does the new covenant say or do you want to avoid the question?

Also I can prove by quoting scripture that the old covenant was not bound to Jews only if you want.

Peace

Do you really think that I am going to explain the entire New Covenant in one post? Seriously? I recommend that you read the New Testament, beginning with Romans, to understand it.

Go ahead and prove (from the Bible) that the Old Covenant was not bound to Jews only.

 

[jamessb]

The Old Covenant was a conditional or bilateral agreement that God made with the Israelites. The Old Covenant was in effect during the dispensation of the Law. It is "old" in comparison to the New Covenant. (www.gotquestions.org)

The Old Covenant, unlike the new, was a physical (earth) based agreement that was initially made at Mount Sinai with the children of Israel. It required obedience to the letter of God's law. (biblestudy.org)

The Old Covenant is a formal, binding contract between God and Israel, initiated by God at Mount Sinai. It includes God's preexisting laws, civil statutes, and judgments, as well as Israel's agreement to follow God's commands. (lifehopeandtruth.com)

The old covenant was given for a limited time. Galatians 3 says that the old covenant, or the law, was meant to lead us to Christ. It was like a schoolmaster, teaching God's people to look ahead to Jesus and the promise of the gospel. (https:corechristianity.com)