Predestination is misunderstood...

I believe people are quickened and made alive, granted hearing through the gospel, and exercise faith. However one wants to categorize it isn't important to me.

Honestly Cameron, he must have been saved for the spirit to come upon him.

Why wouldn't you believe dead people can't be given faith first before salvation,

Why should a dead person receive salvation first before faith.

My Calvinist brother said "Uh uh" Regeneration precedes faith-how do you answer?

It's just the estate of fallen man. Dead people can't respond. Neither can spiritually dead people.

It has to. Dead people tell no tales.

It has to. Dead people tell no tales.

it is "a matter of theological debate-Calvin and Arminian" but I do concur with the -"dead in trespasses and sins"

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

και υμας οντας νεκρους τοις παραπτωμασιν και ταις αμαρτιαις

And you being dead in your peysha'im and chatta'im,


And you hath he quickened,.... The design of the apostle in this and some following verses, is to show the exceeding sinfulness of sin, and to set forth the sad estate and condition of man by nature, and to magnify the riches of the grace of God, and represent the exceeding greatness of his power in conversion: the phrase
hath he quickened, is not in the original text, but is supplied from Eph_2:5, where it will be met with and explained: here those who are quickened with Christ, and by the power and grace of God, are described in their natural and unregenerate estate,
who were dead in trespasses and sins; not only dead in Adam, in whom they sinned, being their federal head and representative; and in a legal sense, the sentence of condemnation and death having passed upon them; but in a moral sense, through original sin, and their own actual transgressions: which death lies in a separation from God, Father, Son, and Spirit, such are without God, and are alienated from the life of God, and they are without Christ, who is the author and giver of life, and they are sensual, not having the Spirit, who is the spirit of life; and in a deformation of the image of God, such are dead as to their understandings, wills, and affections, with respect to spiritual things, and as to their capacity to do any thing that is spiritually good; and in a loss of original righteousness; and in a privation of the sense of sin and misery; and in a servitude to sin, Satan, and the world: hence it appears, that man must be in himself unacceptable to God, infectious and hurtful to his fellow creatures, and incapable of helping himself: so it was usual with the Jews to call a wicked and ignorant man, a dead man; they say (i),
"there is no death like that of those that transgress the words of the law, who are called, מתים, "dead men", and therefore the Scripture says, "turn and live".''
And again (k),
"no man is called a living man, but he who is in the way of truth in this world.----And a wicked man who does not go in the way of truth, is called, מת, "a dead man".''

Shalom
J.

I believe people are quickened and made alive, granted hearing through the gospel, and exercise faith. However one wants to categorize it isn't important to me.

It has to. Dead people tell no tales.

It has to. Dead people tell no tales.

You will agree with Gill here-


Even when we were dead in sins,.... Eph_2:1.
Hath quickened us together with Christ: which may be understood either of regeneration, when a soul that is dead in a moral or spiritual sense, is quickened and made alive; a principle of life is infused, and acts of life are put forth; such have their spiritual senses, and these in exercise; they can feel the load and weight of sin; see their lost state and condition, the odiousness of sin, and the beauty of a Saviour, the insufficiency of their own righteousness, and the fulness and suitableness of Christ's; breathe after divine and spiritual things; speak in prayer to God, and the language of Canaan to fellow Christians; move towards Christ, exercise grace on him, act for him, and walk on in him: and this life they have not from themselves, for previous to it they are dead, and in this quickening work are entirely passive; nor can regenerate persons quicken themselves, when in dead and lifeless frames, and much less unregenerate sinners; but this is God's act, the act of God the Father; though not exclusive of the Son, who quickens whom he will; nor of the Spirit, who is the Spirit of life from Christ; and it is an instance of the exceeding greatness, both of his power and love; and this may be said to be done with Christ, because he is the procuring and meritorious cause of it, by his death and resurrection from the dead; and is the author and efficient cause of it; and he is the matter of it, it is not so much the quickened persons that live, as Christ that lives in them, and it is the same life he himself lives; and because he lives, they shall live also; it is in him as in the fountain, and in them as in the stream: or else this may be understood of justification; men are dead in a legal sense, and on account of sin, are under the sentence of death; though they naturally think themselves alive, and in a good state; but when the Spirit of God comes, he strikes dead all their hopes of life by a covenant of works; not merely by letting in the terrors of the law upon the conscience, but by showing the spirituality of it, and the exceeding sinfulness of sin; and how incapable they are of satisfying the law, for the transgressions of it; and then he works faith in them, whereby they revive and live; they see pardon and righteousness in Christ, and pray for the one, and plead the other; and also lay hold and live upon the righteousness of Christ, when the Spirit seals up the pardon of their sins to them, and passes the sentence of justification on them, and so they reckon themselves alive unto God; and this is the justification of life, the Scripture speaks of; and this is in consequence of their being quickened with Christ, at the time of his resurrection; for when he rose from the dead, they rose with him; when he was justified, they were justified in him; and in this sense when he was quickened, they were quickened with him:
by grace ye are saved: the Claromontane copy and the Vulgate Latin version read, "by whose grace"; and the Arabic and Ethiopic versions, "by his grace"; either by the grace of him that quickens, or by the grace of Christ with whom they were quickened; the Syriac version renders it, "by his grace he hath redeemed us"; which seems to refer to the redeeming grace of Christ; and so the Ethiopic version, "and hath delivered us by his grace"; and there is a change of the person into "us", which seems more agreeable to what goes before, and follows after;
J.

I believe people are quickened and made alive, granted hearing through the gospel,
and exercise faith. However one wants to categorize it isn't important to me.

Because it is right in the sight of the Lord. All mankind has a responsibility before God whether they acknowledge it or not by virtue of creation. And God is gracious to all. The sun shines on the just and the unjust. The rain is given so all can eat. The gospel is preached to every creature.

Question: is God glorified equally in all His attributes? Is He as glorified in the exercise of His love as He is in the exercise of His justice?

Jesus' words in Matthew 17:20-21 Faith the size of a mustard seed moved the mountain of my unbelie
Faith the size of a mustard seed moved the mountain of my unbelief f

Are you an artist?
J.

It's just the estate of fallen man. Dead people can't respond. Neither can spiritually dead people.

If it was God's preserved word, it would be interpreted correctly.

But if you want to base your theology on an interpretation of other interpretations. Feel free

The KJV is in error in this passage. You can believe the truth or reject it. Thats on you

Hebrews 10:14 states, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." This verse emphasizes the completed work of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, which brings about perfection for believers who are sanctified. The context of this verse in Hebrews underscores the superiority of Christ's sacrifice over the repeated sacrifices under the Old Covenant. Through Christ's once-for-all sacrifice, believers are made perfect and sanctified before God
3
.Etymology and Morphology of Sanctification

The word "sanctification" has its roots in Latin and Old French, ultimately derived from the Late Latin term "sanctificare," meaning "to make holy." The word combines "sanctus," meaning "holy," and the verb form of "facere," meaning "to make" or "to do." Over time, the term evolved to encompass the idea of consecration and setting apart for sacred use
.In its theological sense, sanctification involves being set apart for God's intended purpose and living in accordance with His design. The Greek term for sanctification, "hagiasmos," conveys the concept of holiness. Sanctification is not merely a positional state but also a process of growing in holiness and conformity to Christ throughout one's life
.The process of sanctification involves both God's work and the believer's active participation. It includes being separated from sin, growing in godliness, and reflecting Jesus Christ more clearly in one's life. Sanctification is not a one-time event but an ongoing journey towards becoming more like Christ, culminating in glorification when believers will be made completely holy in God's presence.

J.

I understand this view but our sanctification is complete and perfect and we must totally get that in order to work towards it and attain to it. Jesus is our Sanctification.

Our working it out in our life is a process just as our salvation is. But we must have the solid rock to stand upon. The absolute assurance that Jesus has done it.

William and Catherine Booth [Salvation Army] used to spend hours every day on their knees begging God to make them holy or sanctifying them. Then that scripture dawned on him "Christ is our sanctification" and he said he never prayed that prayer again.