Predestination is misunderstood...

What your missing is, it was the faith of Jesus that defeated death.

Incorrect-

The idea that Jesus' faithfulness, rather than the faith of individuals, defeated death is not directly supported by the provided search results.

The search results primarily discuss Jesus' resurrection as the event that demonstrates his victory over death and the implications of this victory for believers

J.

Imputed, given, upon...

Fail! You claimed that “the faith of Jesus Christ” is imputed to believers, but haven’t provided any relevant Scripture to support your claim. Changing from “imputed” to “given” or “upon” doesn’t fix your error.

LOL, the faith of Jesus Christ is God's righteousness.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ

Its basically a letter to the Ephesus saints who had already believed in Christ.

Paul is simply saying to the Ephesus saints , you are in Christ because you believed . But now you must be blameless and without spots.

Obviously there must have been heresy going on.

Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;



2) "But for them also which shall believe on me," (alla kai pari ton pisteuonton eis eime) "But also concerning the ones who are believing or trusting in me," and who shall believe in me hereafter; His prayers, earnest petition to the Father, reached forward in time to include you and me, and those who may yet believe.

3) "Through their word;" (dia tou logou auton) "Through the word of them," through their testimony of the truth-word, (eis eime) "by which they trusted in me," and have followed me, as my witnesses through my ministry, to this hour; Joh_15:26-27; Act_1:8; Act_10:41. This prayer affirms the future spread of truth, salvation of souls, and growth of the church, under the consecration and empowering on Pentecost, Act_1:8; Act_2:4.

However-

“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word” (John 17:20).

Most Bible commentaries maintain that the Lord was talking about you and me, and all of the other members of the Body of Christ who had not yet believed on Him at that time. The problem with this view is that you and I didn’t believe on Christ through the words of the twelve apostles. We believed on Him through the words of the Apostle Paul! Paul is the only biblical writer who presents salvation by grace through faith in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:25). If someone introduced you to Christ using the words of the twelve apostles, they had to read Paul’s gospel into their words, for he is the only biblical writer to preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as the gospel that must be believed in order to be saved (I Cor. 15:1-4).

So who were those who were saved through the word of the apostles? Well, the twelve preached their word at Pentecost, which tells us that those who believed through their word were all Jews, for they were the only people that Peter addressed on that day (Acts 2:14,22,36). So in praying for “them also which shall believe through their word,” the Lord was praying for future Jewish believers. Of course, this means that He had only Jewish believers in mind when He went on to pray for these future saints.

“That they all may be one…that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me” (John 17:21).

Here again, the commentaries all contend that the Lord was talking about us. After all, didn’t Paul say of Christ, “He is our peace, who hath made both one” (Eph. 2:14), speaking of how Jews and Gentiles were all “baptized into one body” (I Cor. 12:13). The commentaries insist that this is what the Lord had in mind when He prayed “that they all may be one.”

But we’ve already seen that this couldn’t be what the Lord had in mind, since those who believed on Him through the word of the apostles were all Jews. So why was He praying that the Jews might be made one?

Note carefully please....


When they have their resurrection bodies?
They will appear before the Lord both holy and blameless.

That is what all Christians have been chosen for....

Chosen for being "the Bride of Christ" who will be incomparably beautiful in His sight when we are in His presence!
For our resurrections bodies will be just like His glorious heavenly body!

grace and peace ..............

LOL, the faith of Jesus Christ is God's righteousness.

Romans 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Jeremiah 17:9...the heart is the source of the problem. That's why God works from the inside out.

I don't disagree with anything here. But a propitiation satisfies some demand of an aggrieved party. God's wrath is what had to be satisfied. Thus the need for Christ, who being fully man could be our substitute, and fully God could atone for our sins.
But God doesn't forgive sins without exacting a payment for them. Otherwise, He would be unjust.

Your argument is weak, with all due respect. In this instance, I have to agree with the preponderance of commentators, for your interpretation is unjustifiably too narrow for a few reasons. First of all, numerous Gentiles in apostolic times believed on Jesus through apostolic teaching. Did not Peter preach the gospel to Cornelius and his entire household -- in fact, a "large gathering of people" (Act 10:27) -- most likely all Gentiles. And what about Paul's ministry, primarily to the Gentiles? This apostle doesn't count? Jesus left him and all Gentile believers out of his prayer?

Sorry but you ain't no preacher

“How could believing in Jesus be saving oneself?”..

Some contemporary churches are billed as “seeker-friendly,” but the Bible says that “no one seeks God.” Psalm 14:2–3 pictures God searching in vain for even one heart that seeks Him: “The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.”

This passage is quoted in Romans 3:10–12, which says, “As it is written: ‘There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.’” So, if no one seeks God, who are the “seekers” that some churches strategize to attract? Plus, how are people saved if no one is seeking God?

First we must understand human nature.

Because of Adam’s disobedience in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:11), sin entered the world and became part of human existence. Because Adam is the common ancestor of every human being, we all inherit that sin nature. We are born with a natural desire for rebellion, self-interest, and disobedience. In Romans 7:18, Paul says, “For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.” In ourselves, we cannot seek after God, for the simple reason that seeking God is a good and holy thing. Sinful flesh is incapable of good and holy things (Isaiah 64:6).

Jesus said, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them” (John 6:44). In other words, the only way we can seek God is if the Holy Spirit has first stirred our hearts with a desire for God.

It is God who draws us to Himself. Ephesians 2:8 underscores this truth: “By grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God.” Even the faith to believe for salvation does not originate within our fleshly nature. God enables the fallen human heart to seek Him, when in our own self-centered rebellion we would never do so. Every good thing originates with God (James 1:17). Faith in God is a good thing, and so it also originates with God.

Even our best efforts fall far short of the righteousness required by God (Romans 3:23). That’s why Scripture says that no one seeks God. We seek fulfillment. We seek pleasure. We seek escape from pain.

But the pure motivation of seeking after God for Himself is a gift from God. We are not saved because we had the wisdom and insight to exercise our own faith and trust God. No one wakes up one day and, on his own, decides to seek God. That would be a salvation by our own works, and Scripture is clear we are saved only by the grace and mercy of God (Titus 3:5; Romans 11:6). We are saved when God touches our hearts and prompts us to use the faith He gives to receive His gift of salvation. Even with the knowledge of God’s existence everywhere, people naturally choose to “suppress the truth by their wickedness” (Romans 1:18–20).

Because no one naturally seeks God, God seeks us. He sought Adam and Eve as they hid in the Garden (Genesis 3:9), and He has been seeking His lost loved ones ever since. Jesus gave this as His mission statement: “The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost” (Luke 19:10).

When God saves us, we are born again. He opens our eyes to the truth; He gives us faith and forgiveness and fellowship with Him. We become new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). In our newness of life, we are given godly desires (Psalm 73:25), a cleansed heart (Hebrews 10:22), and a new mind (1 Corinthians 2:16). In the power of the Holy Spirit, we begin to truly seek after God.

The connection between our salvation and our seeking after God is illustrated in how God restored His people following the Babylonian captivity. The ancient Jews at first expected a speedy return to their homeland, but the prophet Jeremiah advised them to settle in: their captivity would last seventy years (Jeremiah 29:10). Lest His people despair at the thought of such a lengthy discipline, God assured them that His plans were to give them “hope and a future” (verse 11). At the appointed time, the Jews repented of their sins and began to cry to the Lord in sincerity and fervency. This is just what God had foretold: “You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you . . . and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you . . . and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile” (verses 13–14). The prophet Daniel exemplified this seeking after the Lord in his prayer on behalf of God’s people (Daniel 9:1–19).

https://www.gotquestions.org/seeks-God.html#:~:text=QUESTION-,What does it mean that no one seeks God?,-ANSWER

The natural volition/tendency of man is to NOT seek the Light-but run from it.
J.

“How could believing in Jesus be saving oneself?”

See my post #590.

If you want more clarification, I'm happy to oblige.

No-one seeks God on their own merits. If we were left to our own devices, we would all be consumed. Thankfully the Lord is merciful.

Lamentations 3:22
Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not.

For you I am not. That's for sure.

Because I do not make an appeal to human bias and ignorance that allows one to get emotional when one's willful ignorance is reinforced with erroneous teaching to make him feel justified in his wrong thinking....

A dime a dozen.
(Always dozing.)

Lamentations 3:22 says, "Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not." This verse is a declaration of hope and trust in God's mercy and compassion, even in the midst of great suffering and despair.

The book of Lamentations was written by the prophet Jeremiah in response to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 586 BC. In this context, the verse emphasizes that it is only through God's mercy and compassion that the people of Israel were not completely destroyed. The phrase "His compassions fail not" means that God's compassion is never-ending and always available to those who seek it. This verse is a reminder that even in the darkest of times, God's love and mercy are present and available to those who turn to Him.

J.

See my post #590.

If you want more clarification, I'm happy to oblige.

No-one seeks God on their own merits. If we were left to our own devices, we would all be consumed. Thankfully the Lord is merciful.

Lamentations 3:22
Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not.