Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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cv5

cv5

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JAPOV said:
In these last days, the faith of many is already being tested. Ultimately, many are going to deny their faith in Christ for the sake of economic security, and take the mark of the beast...
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I do not think so. In that day, those who believe are perfectly willing to "die" knowing that.....they cannot.

Consider the analogy from quantum physics:
The superposition condition (born with the potential of both life or death) collapses into one state or another by the "observer effect" due to an act of free will.

An act of free will such as gazing upon the brazen serpent upon the pole (Num 21:8) aka believing the Words of Christ Jesus.
This free-will act crystallizing the spiritual state to one of eternal life.
 
K

Karlon

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LW97 said:
I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.
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what is the sense in being saved if you can lose your salvation? when will you lose salvation? when will you get it back? how will you know if you're saved if you are on your deathbed? how many times can you lose salvation & get it back? here is proof that salvation can never be lost: 1st John 5:13- "these things have we written to you that believe on the name of the Son of God, "THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE AND THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD"!!!!
 
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Karlon

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ATTENTION: PLEASE READ THIS: i see that there is a bunch of CC members agreeing with LW97. study & learn 1st John 5:13 as well as 1st John 5:10, John 3:33,36, 14:26, 16:13, 2nd Timothy 2:7,15, Job 32:8, Hebrews 8:10, Psalms 119:18. if you are a born again Christian & believe you can lose your salvation, you are not living the most joyous memorable life you can live. in fact, it's worse than you think. the devil has you convinced in that false belief. even more, you may not be saved at all. I'M ASKING ALL THAT BELIEVE IN THE LOSS OF SALVATION TO SERIOUSLY IMMEDIATELY DISCERN THE TRUTH WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT'S ASSISTANCE. THANK YOU.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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LW97 said:
I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.
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reigning is reward ... salvation is a free gift.

If we deny Him He cannot deny Himself.

We will always be saved but we can lose our reward.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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LW97 said:
Hello and thanks for your answer. However, I have MANY, MANY other Verses too. Here is another example.

"These men are hidden reefs [elements of great danger to others] in your love feasts when they feast together with you without fear, looking after [only] themselves; [they are like] clouds without water, swept along by the winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted and lifeless " Jude 12 AMP

If they died twice then it means they already had been born again.
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they were false brethren
 
Chester

Chester

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Karlon said:
ATTENTION: PLEASE READ THIS: i see that there is a bunch of CC members agreeing with LW97. study & learn 1st John 5:13 as well as 1st John 5:10, John 3:33,36, 14:26, 16:13, 2nd Timothy 2:7,15, Job 32:8, Hebrews 8:10, Psalms 119:18. if you are a born again Christian & believe you can lose your salvation, you are not living the most joyous memorable life you can live. in fact, it's worse than you think. the devil has you convinced in that false belief. even more, you may not be saved at all. I'M ASKING ALL THAT BELIEVE IN THE LOSS OF SALVATION TO SERIOUSLY IMMEDIATELY DISCERN THE TRUTH WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT'S ASSISTANCE. THANK YOU.
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Salvation is always based upon one's believing in Jesus Christ. If you believe, you are saved. If you do not believe, you are not saved.

Belief in OSAS means that one's assurance is based upon the validity and security of the event when one was born again. But what if one starts sinning grievously and struggling . . . beware - many will say that you might not have been born again to start with . . . Thus the conclusion of belief in OSAS is that you need to continue doing good works in order to be sure that your initial experience was real and valid.

I do not believe that assurance of salvation comes from maintaining good works. I believe that assurance of salvation comes from my current active faith in Jesus Christ.

Hence I reject OSAS as false doctrine. No verse in Scripture states that once a person is saved that they will always be saved.
 
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Karlon

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Chester said:
Salvation is always based upon one's believing in Jesus Christ. If you believe, you are saved. If you do not believe, you are not saved.

Belief in OSAS means that one's assurance is based upon the validity and security of the event when one was born again. But what if one starts sinning grievously and struggling . . . beware - many will say that you might not have been born again to start with . . . Thus the conclusion of belief in OSAS is that you need to continue doing good works in order to be sure that your initial experience was real and valid.

I do not believe that assurance of salvation comes from maintaining good works. I believe that assurance of salvation comes from my current active faith in Jesus Christ.

Hence I reject OSAS as false doctrine. No verse in Scripture states that once a person is saved that they will always be saved.
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cogitate on the phrase: "born again". now look at Romans 12:2 "......but be ye TRANSFORMED".. also, born again means once, 1 time. it is singular. when 1 becomes born again, your edifying, growing in grace & in knowledge of our Lord & savior Jesus Christ, will teach you you never have to be born again. you are incorrect about doing good works in the osas belief. 1st, Ephessinas 2:8,9, &10 teach we're saved by God's grace, not of ourselves & NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN BOAST! i don't know anyone who believes in osas that also believes you have to keep working to see if your initial experience was real. & there is nothing about that in the Bible!
 
Chester

Chester

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Karlon said:
i don't know anyone who believes in osas that also believes you have to keep working to see if your initial experience was real. & there is nothing about that in the Bible!
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You are absolutely right that salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works! And you are right that there is nothing in the Bible about having to keep working in order to see if your initial experience was real.

But as for not knowing anyone who believes that? I hear this all the time from OSAS people: . . . "well, he was probably never born again to begin with . . ." -- and if you say that, what you are saying is that from your observation the person's works are not measuring up to his profession - and you are making the human judgment that his initial "conversion" was not really real/genuine. But if that person would repent and start living right then guess what??!! OSAS people would once again say that he was born again and "once a son always a son."

So my advice to someone who believes in OSAS: make sure you keep doing good works so that your peers around you don't get suspicious that you were never born again to start with . . . (this is sad ironical satire)

In actuality - and much better - my advice is actually that you make sure that your faith in God today is deeply rooted in Jesus Christ, and then live real Christianity out of your faith. This is real living! (zoe)
 
K

Karlon

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Chester said:
You are absolutely right that salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works! And you are right that there is nothing in the Bible about having to keep working in order to see if your initial experience was real.

But as for not knowing anyone who believes that? I hear this all the time from OSAS people: . . . "well, he was probably never born again to begin with . . ." -- and if you say that, what you are saying is that from your observation the person's works are not measuring up to his profession - and you are making the human judgment that his initial "conversion" was not really real/genuine. But if that person would repent and start living right then guess what??!! OSAS people would once again say that he was born again and "once a son always a son."

So my advice to someone who believes in OSAS: make sure you keep doing good works so that your peers around you don't get suspicious that you were never born again to start with . . . (this is sad ironical satire)

In actuality - and much better - my advice is actually that you make sure that your faith in God today is deeply rooted in Jesus Christ, and then live real Christianity out of your faith. This is real living! (zoe)
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born again Christians don't do good works to be seen of men. in fact, "don't let the right hand know what the left hand is doing", applies here. i don't know any Christian who does works to be seen of men. catholics do that.
 
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