What if you die before water baptism?

Well the references in the nt about Abraham bekieving and being accounted as righteous was about believing what God said it’s directly coming from here

“And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You've destroyed your own argument. "Whoever does not believe......." Nothing about baptism there.

The thief on the cross was not baptised. Jesus told him that he would be in paradise. That does not sound like condemnation to me.

By receiving Christ we are made to be children of God. John 1:12
Eternal life is knowing God and Jesus John 17:3
We are saved by grace. Ephesians 2:5 and 8
God puts us into Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30
The one who believes in Jesus will not perish. John 3:18

In Acts 8 we find the account of the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip the evangelist. Philip witnesses to him. It is obvious from the context that the eunuch believes. What would have happened if there was no water for the man to be baptised with? Do you really believe that the man was condemned until he was dunked? Salvation is what God does for us and not what we do for God.

We are crucified with Christ. So we are dead. What do you do with a dead body? You bury it. That's what baptism is about. Christians need to know that they are dead, buried and raised from the dead - the same as Christ because God includes us in Christ when we believe. Colossians 2:12, Romans 6:4.

What is the baptism Jesus spoke of? It's not water. We need to be baptised into Christ. This means far more than an intellectual acceptance of a fact. (Galatians 3:27). And who puts us into Christ? The Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

Making salvation conditional on water baptism is illogical, puts the onus on man to save himself, denies the grace of God and cannot be justified by scripture. It makes God out to be unfair and unjust. That is the worst part of the false doctrine.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Which one do you believe?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
He that believeth on him and is baptised is not condemned: but he that believeth not or he that believeth but is baptised not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (or he hath believeth in the name of the only begotten Son of God, but has not been baptised).

really

You've destroyed your own argument. "Whoever does not believe......." Nothing about baptism there.

The thief on the cross was not baptised. Jesus told him that he would be in paradise. That does not sound like condemnation to me.

By receiving Christ we are made to be children of God. John 1:12
Eternal life is knowing God and Jesus John 17:3
The one who believes in Jesus will not perish. John 3:18

We are saved by grace. Ephesians 2:5 and 8
God puts us into Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30

In Acts 8 we find the account of the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip the evangelist. Philip witnesses to him. It is obvious from the context that the eunuch believes. What would have happened if there was no water for the man to be baptised with? Do you really believe that the man was condemned until he was dunked? Salvation is what God does for us and not what we do for God.

We are crucified with Christ. So we are dead. What do you do with a dead body? You bury it. That's what baptism is about. Christians need to know that they are dead, buried and raised from the dead - the same as Christ because God includes us in Christ when we believe. Colossians 2:12, Romans 6:4.

What is the baptism Jesus spoke of? It's not water.

We need to be baptised into Christ. This means far more than an intellectual acceptance of a fact. (Galatians 3:27). And who puts us into Christ? The Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

Making salvation conditional on water baptism is illogical, puts the onus on man to save himself, denies the grace of God and cannot be justified by scripture. It makes God out to be unfair and unjust. That is the worst part of the false doctrine.

I suggest to you, John 3 is before Jesus commanded baptism in the name of. The things Jesus said before His sacrifice He said looking forward to the building of His church. and on this rock I will build my church, Will build, future. Looking forward to Him being given all authority and being the Christ.
After He purchased the church with His blood, Acts 20:28, and before His ascension He tells the apostles “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
He then commands them to make disciples baptizing them in the name of the father, son and HS.

Before He put power in the blood, He said to believe but now there is power in the blood Jesus says "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Now we know if the unbeliever gets baptized it means nothing because he is not a believer.

So, the question you pose is "what if the believer does not get baptized, is he saved". I suggest let's look and see what the bible tells us about this.

So Jesus sends the 12 out to preach the gospel and says Whoever believes(past tense) and is baptized(past tense) will be(future tense) saved, They go into Jerusalem and preach the gospel and 3,000 respond. Let's look and see if these 3,000 believers got baptized or if some did and some didn't. So, when they believed they asked, what shall we do and Peter says“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, He said every one of you. Then the bible tells us
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Exact same thing as Jesus said.
Whoever believes(1) and is baptized(2) will be saved(3),
41 So those who received his word(1) were baptized(2), and there were added(3) that day about three thousand souls.
One could believe that those who believed and did not get baptized were added but the bible doesn't say that. It says those who believed and were baptized were added. Just as Jesus said. I for one, do not want to trust my eternal destiny on what the bible doesn't say and what is contrary to what Jesus does say.

When we look at the subsequent conversions we see the same thing, believe and baptized in the name of Jesus.
If believe and be baptized is how Christians are converted, don't you think that is exactly what Satan is going to attack to confuse us. Just like he did in the garden. God said "you eat you will surely die". Satan said "you will not die". Jesus says "believes and is baptized will be saved" Man says "all you have to do is believe to be saved". I trust Jesus.

I suggest reading the story in 1 Kings 13. It's about a prophet God gave instructions to and then a man tells him what he wants to hear. When he did what the man said in direct contradiction to what God instructed, well I'm sure you can imagine what happened.

She has that huge photo underneath every post, so when it looks like the end, I just skim down. I must've thought it was part of the usual signature so skipped over it.

Two things. 1) Do you agree today we are saved by the gospel?

So how are you reading the "circumcision of Christ" part as spiritual, and the "buried with him in baptism" part as literal? Surely one must take literally both or neither? Or you want to have your scriptural cake and eat it too?

An unbeliever reads the Gospel but Satan has blinded their minds to grasp it rightly and their eyes and ears are veiled so they do see or hear the real message of the Gospel -------they have not the right Faith to be saved -----

Well the references in the nt about Abraham bekieving and being accounted as righteous was about believing what God said it’s directly coming from here

“And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All those references in the nt are referring to that he believes what God said to him and God credited to him as righteousness that’s all I’m saying abrahan didn’t just say “ I believe God exists “ he hears and believes Gods word to him

air wasn’t as if Abraham was a disobedient person to begin with he already showed his faith in his actions from the first mention of him in scripture

“Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: ( instruction )

and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. ( resulting promise )

(Abraham’s faith in action ) So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can see this in the nt

“By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

abraham was always a faithful man he always heard what God said to him and accepted and believed it and then acted upon it

Would Abraham get baptized if God told him this ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15

Either he said that or he didn’t the one thing about faith is it comes from here

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

abraham always believed what God told him his actions followed

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God called him righteous because he believed what God told him and followed in faith

baptism is a simple statement from God sent to all creatures of earth some won’t accept it some will but that’s basically what he said right ?

Preach the gospel to all creatures in tbe world . whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved whoever doesn’t believe will be damned

i think it’s better for Christian’s to just share the things he said will save people but I mean I’m just a guy with an opinion like the rest of you so doesn’t mean I’m right

I suggest to you, John 3 is before Jesus commanded baptism in the name of. The things Jesus said before His sacrifice He said looking forward to the building of His church. and on this rock I will build my church, Will build, future. Looking forward to Him being given all authority and being the Christ.
After He purchased the church with His blood, Acts 20:28, and before His ascension He tells the apostles “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
He then commands them to make disciples baptizing them in the name of the father, son and HS.

Before He put power in the blood, He said to believe but now there is power in the blood Jesus says "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Now we know if the unbeliever gets baptized it means nothing because he is not a believer.

So, the question you pose is "what if the believer does not get baptized, is he saved". I suggest let's look and see what the bible tells us about this.

So Jesus sends the 12 out to preach the gospel and says Whoever believes(past tense) and is baptized(past tense) will be(future tense) saved, They go into Jerusalem and preach the gospel and 3,000 respond. Let's look and see if these 3,000 believers got baptized or if some did and some didn't. So, when they believed they asked, what shall we do and Peter says“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, He said every one of you. Then the bible tells us
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Exact same thing as Jesus said.
Whoever believes(1) and is baptized(2) will be saved(3),
41 So those who received his word(1) were baptized(2), and there were added(3) that day about three thousand souls.
One could believe that those who believed and did not get baptized were added but the bible doesn't say that. It says those who believed and were baptized were added. Just as Jesus said. I for one, do not want to trust my eternal destiny on what the bible doesn't say and what is contrary to what Jesus does say.

When we look at the subsequent conversions we see the same thing, believe and baptized in the name of Jesus.
If believe and be baptized is how Christians are converted, don't you think that is exactly what Satan is going to attack to confuse us. Just like he did in the garden. God said "you eat you will surely die". Satan said "you will not die". Jesus says "believes and is baptized will be saved" Man says "all you have to do is believe to be saved". I trust Jesus.

I suggest reading the story in 1 Kings 13. It's about a prophet God gave instructions to and then a man tells him what he wants to hear. When he did what the man said in direct contradiction to what God instructed, well I'm sure you can imagine what happened.

What you present is not merely opinion it is the truth as revealed in scripture. And I for one appreciate that you continue to share that truth. Thank you!

...
Do you really believe that the man was condemned until he was dunked? Salvation is what God does for us and not what we do for God.
...Making salvation conditional on water baptism is illogical, puts the onus on man to save himself, denies the grace of God and cannot be justified by scripture. It makes God out to be unfair and unjust. That is the worst part of the false doctrine.

You're avoiding the question. We're not answering a question about whether believers should be baptised - they should be. The thread is about if a believer died before being baptised, would he be saved. The answer is yes, because our works - including baptism - don't save us.

You're still not answering the right question. I don't think anyone here is arguing believers shouldn't be baptised. They should be. What we are arguing is that baptism doesn't save anyone. Paul wrote a letter to the Galatians, that they shouldn't practice circumcision, because it isn't required for salvation. But he also circumcised Timothy because he was a Jew. Baptism is, like circumcision was, an act of obedience. But elevating it to the status of a saving work is a damnable heresy, in my view, as Jesus is the only One who saves.

If you had accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and you die. you go to be with Jesus.

If you are professing to be a Christian and have no desire to follow our Lord in Baptism in water as HE did.

There is a serious issue with your obedience, and soul searching should be done in your heart concerning your Salvation.

I think that cuts through all the stuff and gets to the rubber meeting the road.

But what about us who were spiritually born again before we did what His word lead us to do, and were baptized? I KNOW I was saved before I was baptized, how does your your equation hold up to this? I was knees on the ground broken with no hope, spiritually dead when He granted me repentance and I realized "I can't do this anymore", and by His blood and sacrifice, my spirit was resurrected and I was reconciled to our Creator. Made brand new overnight with all new priorities and desirers. I was born again and had not been baptized yet. Once I was saved I went to be baptized first opportunity, but I was 100% SAVED before that happen for sure. how can this be if what you say is true?