everything is predestined?

Hi, Paul. Yes, I can. The whole chapter speaks to His believers in Christ. Notice the promises within the chapter. They are for you and me and every Christian.

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinegrower. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit. You have already been cleansed by the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. I have said these things to you so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. I do not call you servants any longer, because the servant does not know what the master is doing; but I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my Father. You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name. I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another. "If the world hates you, be aware that it hated me before it hated you. If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own. Because you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world—therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'Servants are not greater than their master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also. But they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father also. If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not have sin. But now they have seen and hated both me and my Father. It was to fulfill the word that is written in their law, 'They hated me without a cause.' "When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, he will testify on my behalf. You also are to testify because you have been with me from the beginning.

- John 15 (NRSV)

Jesus has just left the last supper with his eleven disciples on His way to the Garden of Gethsemane. So, contextually, he was speaking only to His eleven disciples that He chose near the beginning of His ministry. That's who the "you" are in John 15. The context does not include anyone else.


"Remember the word that I said to you, 'Servants are not greater than their master.' Jesus said that to the twelve, not to you and me.

"You also are to testify because you have been with me from the beginning." The twelve had been with Jesus from the beginning of His ministry. Were you and I?

If the gospel is for every creature, why do you think he would not pray for every creature (John 17:9).

Just my thoughts. Why would God command anyone to repent, knowing that they cannot receive, nor understand his laws?

I agree with you that God's elect people is the church comprised of people from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. I believe that Jacob, whom God changed his name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel. represents all of God's elect

Most of Jacob/Israel turned away from God and began to worship idols, and because of their disobedience, God blinded their eyes to see, understand the gospel of Christ, except for the remnant that he left in the mist of them that shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; for they shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid. (Zeph 3).

Both Jacob/Israel and the remnant will be saved (Rom 11:26-32). I believe the scriptures teach that there is an "invisible" (my own word) church of God/kingdom of God, comprised of Jacob/Israel of whom God blinded their understanding, and there is a "visible" (my own word) that God has revealed the truth of the doctrine that Christ taught which is comprised of the remnant of Jacob/Israel (Ezk 10, especially verse 10). The larger wheel, being Jacob/Israel, and the smaller wheel, being the remnant of Jacob/Israel. (Rom 11:1-8).

I believe the two gates in Matt 7 harmonize with this truth. The wide gate representing Jacob/Israel, the larger outer wheel, who are blinded to understand the doctrine of Jesus, and are going about teaching many false doctrines, which leads to destruction of the truth of God's word.

The strait gate representing the remnant of Jacob/Israel, the smaller inner wheel, of whom God has revealed a knowledge of the doctrine of Jesus. They are the few that find it and the narrow way (Christ's doctrine) that leads to a peaceful (none shall make them afraid) and joyful life as they sojourn here on earth.

I realize that this is a hard doctrine to understand, as it was for Jesus's disciples when they heard it (John 6:60).

The inspired word of God was written as instruction to how God wants his adopted children to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth. As long as they follow his instructions, they are in fellowship with him. His adopted children's trouble is because of the baggage of their fleshly nature, they are, at times, tempted, by Satan, and commit a sin, in doing so, they die=separate themselves from God's fellowship,(not their eternal inheritance), temporary, until they repent, because God will not fellowship sin, even turning his back on his only begotten Son as he bore the sins of God's elect.

Saved=delivered, according to Strong's concordance. Each time that one of God's adopted children repents of a sin that they have committed, and God forgives them, they have been saved (delivered) from the effects of that sin.

I perceive that you are an intelligent person, and my hope is that you will investigate the things I have presented to you that I believe in.

… but who was there at the very beginning—before the foundation of the world?

No. People are often confused about this because the final outcome is FOREKNOWN by God. All men have a choice when it comes to their individual salvation. God knows that the wicked shall reject Him. Not complicated at all, really.

1 Peter 1:2
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”

The three persons of the Triune Godhead.

Yes, they do not get that God can not predestine peoples choices and give the same men free will. But He can predestine a sacrifice that gives life unto all who freely receive that gift.

Everything has happened in the fruit of the tree of good and evil.

Not everything is predestined. Believers are predestined to conform to the image of the Son, Christ, in which should be starting the with us now already, so we should cooperate in that. It doesn't mean all things are predestined purposely, though what will happen will happen, believers with repentance have promised security still.

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s always the result of how we see and hear Gods word what I hear is “ the devil is in the world trying to get you , cling to Jesus with all your strength resisting the devils Will and he will retreat

Brother Wannabe,What a person believes is supposed to happen can of course vary from person to person, the Lord knows what will happen, he does not suppose. lol I don't know brother how things are supposed to happen from day to day myself. I hate surprises myself. What is supposed to happen is that the world would wake up from its sleep!!(Romans 13:11-14) But we all know that will not happen! In fact, the world will get worse! I do like your question though! For me brother I think upon what I am supposed to become in Christ Jesus and how I can affect others to do the same.

All I know from my extensive reading and study of the Bible is that God causes or allows everything to happen in his plan; he causes good things to happen and allows bad things to his glory and the good of his people (Genesis 50:20).

At the very same time, all humans are fully responsible for all their actions. It is a mystery how all that works together.

Brother Old guy, (2 Cor 4:4) There is no glory in bad things happening. Does one praise the Lord when a Tornado causes them to lose everything, they worked so hard for?? Of course not! God's Glory is Eternally around him; he needs not good or bad things to happen to us for his glory to grow stronger. Does he know what is going on around us?? Of course he does! This is not the fault of our Lord, but rather of his first creation Adam. God did not take back charge of the world since Adam fall. Hence why he has to come back to fix the mess man has put us in. I am a New Covenant person, the old has passed away. (Hebrews 8:13)

Better stated:
God WILLFULLY steps in and prevents even worse things and most extreme pernicious WILLFUL desires of evil men/evil angels from happening (by judgement i.e. the flood and Sodom).

Furthermore, providentially graciously provides a way of escape from the consequences of the sins of others and even ourselves.

At the white throne judgement, all lies, sin, darkness, evil and evil beings.....will be SEPARATED from the truth, righteousness, light, goodness and the saints and holy angels.

The word "glory" has two meanings. One is the divine brightness of God, which you refer to, but the other one is the honor we give him. The latter meaning is what happens when he allows bad things to happen to people, which is his permissive will and plan. Another way to look at it is that as our heavenly Father, he permits bad events in our lives, just as he did in Job's life, as his tough love, when we need to learn better obedience to him or need to improve in our moral life. A good earthly father also has to punish his child when we disobey. God's honor or glory comes as we realize the good that he has brought out of those experiences. (Read the first two chapters of Job.) God only allowed Satan to go so far as he allowed him to attack Job.

The experiences of Job make him a "type" of Christ. An obviously intentional type.
Just thought that I would throw that out there.

Please cv5 show me a scripture which states the second meaning. I am a Word man; we can surmise its meaning all we want to, another words you can make the meaning any way one wishes to, but that does not make it correct. Job was under the Old Covenant we are not. We can honor his Glory yes! But no man can make his glory greater. And I will show you an Old Testament scripture to proof this. (Isaiah 54:9-10) Would you allow your child to be hurt in any way??

Tough love brings two things 1. awareness to self!! and 2. to turn another way of doing bad things to both help and preserve you. Spanking brings an awareness to the child and then after he or she thinks about how they have angered you; you then bring comfort and assurance of your love back to the child.

At least that is what one is supposed to do. Many parents have no business having a child for they have no idea of how a Godly parent is supposed to treat that child, so that the child (Eph 6:4). Now provoke can mean many things to many people of course, but to me it means causing your child to rebel against you as was true with my family.

One more scripture where the Lord will never share his glory with anyone! (Isaiah 42:8) and others that state the same.

Not only Job (obviously)....but also Samson. A very remarkable type of Christ.