Where does the justification for The New Testament doers of the law in Romans 2:13 originate from?

In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and Romans 10:5-8 quotes that passage as the word of faith that we proclaim, so believing that we can be doers of the law is not a matter of exalting ourselves, but a matter of having faith in God's word. Moreover, there are a number of examples of people in the Bible who were doers of the law, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14. While do not earn our justification as the result of having first obeyed God's law, it is nevertheless still true that all of those who will be justified are doers of the law.


We become someone who has faith, someone who will be justified, and someone who is a doer of the law all at the same time, so someone who is not one of those things is also not the others, but we do not become justified as the result of having first obeyed God's law.


Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and in Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn him, so that is his yoke and burden. Furthermore, but Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so there is no room for thinking that his yoke and burden is something other than God's word.


The Spirit has the role of leading us in truth (John 16:13), the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and the Mosaic Law is truth (Psalms 119:142).

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. In Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin and there are many instances where the Apostles called for repentance from sin. The Bible repeatedly connects our belief/faith in God with our obedience to him, such as in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, so God's commandments are His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, or in other words, God's word is His instructions for how to believe in God's word made flesh. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Mosaic Law as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so everything in it is in regard to how to love, and if you think that we should obey the greatest two commandments, then you should also think that we should obey the commandments than hang on them. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to God's law.

There is no "but" in the Greek in John 1:17, rather John 1:16 says grace upon grace, so it is speaking about one example of grace being added upon another. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Moreover, in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so grace and truth came through Jesus because he spent his ministry teaching us to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example.


Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so while we are not required to have first obeyed it in order to earn our salvation as the result, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically the content of the gift of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. Our obedience to Mosaic Law is about God giving the content of the gift of salvation to us, not about us trying to earn salvation from God. It is contradictory for someone who think that they aren't obligated to obey the Mosaic Law to think that they need salvation from transgressing it.

~
I was christened an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944, and
eventually attended catechism to complete First Holy Communion and
Confirmation.

I was loyal to Rome up until I was 24, then one day I was approached by a
Protestant who asked me if I was prepared for Christ's return.

Well; I must've been either asleep or absent the day that the nuns talked
about Jesus coming back because that man's question was the very first
time in my whole life that I can remember somebody telling me.

My initial reaction was alarm because I instinctively knew that were I called
on the carpet for a face-to-face with Jesus, it would not go well for me
because I had a lot to answer for. Well; I don't like being made to feel afraid
so I became indignant and demanded to know why Jesus would come back.
That's when I found out for the very first time that it was in the plan for
Christ to take over the world. (I had somehow missed that in catechism
too.)

Then the Protestant asked me if I was going to Heaven. Well; of course I
had no clue because Catholics honestly don't know what to expect when
they pass away. I was crossing my fingers while in the back of my mind
dreading the worst.

Then the man said; "Don't you know that Jesus died for your sins?"

Well; I had been taught in catechism that Jesus died for the sins of the
world; that much I knew; but honestly believed all along that he had been a
victim of unfortunate circumstances. It was a shock to discover that Jesus'
trip to the cross was deliberate, and that his Father was thinking of me when
His son passed away, viz: my sins were among the sins of the world that
Jesus took to the cross with him.

At that very instant-- scarcely a nanosecond --something took over in my
mind as I fully realized, to my great relief, that Heaven was no longer out of
reach, rather, well within my grasp!

That was an amazing experience. In just the two or three minutes of
conversation with that Protestant, I obtained an understanding of Jesus'
crucifixion that many tedious catechism classes had somehow failed to get
across. Consequently, my confidence in the Roman Catholic Church was
shattered like a bar of peanut brittle candy dropped to the sidewalk from the
tippy top of the Chrysler building.

Long story short; I eventually went with that man to his church and, side by
side with him and a couple of elders, knelt at the rail down front and prayed
a really simple, naive prayer that went something like this:

"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's
death"

My prayer wasn't much to brag about; but it was the smartest sixteen words
I'd ever spoken up to that time.

** There are folks at large who have never yet complied with the sermon on
the mount, and know in their hearts they never will. I highly recommend
they follow my example and speak with God by means of words similar to
mine rather than risk their chances at the great white throne event depicted
by Rev 20:11-15 where the lost will be punished by a mode of retribution
akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron. Jesus' crucifixion
has made it possible for God to get people into a position of safety where
they will never again be in danger of that terrible fate.

● John 5:24 . . Amen, amen, I say to you: whoever hears my word, and
believes in the one who sent me, has eternal life and will not come to
condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
_

Does ANYone love the Lord our God with ALL the heart and ALL the mind and strength? has ANYone
ever? apart from Jesus our Lord?

~


I myself have not yet met someone able to duplicate Christ's sinless
perfection, but some folks in the Bible have been very commendable. For
example: Josiah (2Kgs 23:25) Zacharias & Elizabeth (Luke 1:5-6) and Paul
the apostle. (Phil 3:6)

However: their level of success has been possible only because Moses' law
provides them with a safety net in the form of a reconciliation system. It
appears to me from Ps 40:6, Jer 7:22-23, & Hos 6:6 that God would rather
the quality of His people's conduct be such that they can get by without
having to constantly resort over and over again to a reconciliation system,
i.e. a quality that is just as flawless as His son's

"I always do what pleases Him." (John 8:29)

Moses' covenant contains no provisions for reconstructing the core of one's
being whereas the new covenant per Jer 31:31-34 & Ezekiel 36:24-27
promises that very thing by replacing human nature with a heavenly nature
so that we too may always and forever do what pleases Him.

● 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given us everything we need for life and
piety through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and
goodness. Through these He has given us His very great and precious
promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and
escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
_

You make claims by inserting your perception attached to random verses as though I think so much of your understanding that I would chase your references around to refute each claim of interpretation, or better yet not bother so that it looks as if know what you are talking about and I do not. Yet, it is you that do not bother to offer anything more than the citation, all of them for easier reference and thus more convenient rebuttal. Is that too much courtesy than you can afford? Or would you just rather not bother?

gather all the references you've offered, you don't even have to cite the version, along with your commentary and we can then have a discussion. Unless you just wanted the last word then, in that case, that's fine by me but then it does reveal that you don't actually want to work anymore than I would.

Now lookee here

God does not say He will write the Mosaic law upon our hearts and mind, you injected that. This is not a quibble it is crucial. Before He begins any work of writing He first takes out from us our stony heart and gives us hearts of flesh.

If He writes the Beatitudes upon our hearts that is a very much higher standard than the Mosaic law ever was. It is not good enough to refrain from actual adultery, God wants us to look at women in a completely new way. Don't say to me that law of Moses must form our base line. That was good enough for the old covenant, it will not do for the new creation.

Does ANYone love the Lord our God with ALL the heart and ALL the mind and strength? has ANYone ever? apart from Jesus our Lord?

This was the painful lesson Peter had to learn when the risen Lord questioned him closely with regard to love. Agape love is not possible to us, but God pours HIS love into our hearts. That is the only acceptable to God love we will know in this age.

When God gave the law to Moses He knew that humanly they were impossible to keep. God predicted Israel ultimate failure and that this would lead to their dispersal. The Jews failed during 2, 000 years to keep Moses' law.

We will only achieve any success in living the beatitudes by the inner working of Christ IN US. We must be filled with the Holy Spirit.

You are missing it, missing it, every time you miss it.

We live no longer we but Christ liveth IN US. that [if it be a reality with you] is all you will ever need for a successful Christian life.

Religious folk are witholding their hearts from the Lord. They say in effect "you will not enter in here" we'll keep the letter of the law but we don't want Your inner life."

I try to cite the Bible as often as I can to show that I am not just making things up, but that I have studied the subject matter and am basing my position on Scripture. Hypothetically, I could intentionally misrepresent verses, take them out of context, or just throw out random verse citations to make it look like I know what I am speaking about when I actually do not, but that sort of behavior is contrary to being a Christian and it would be rather easy for someone to spot and expose me as a fraud. My goal is to represent verses as accurately as I can and I think that I've done a good job of that, so it is unnecessary for people to look up everything that I've cited, but the citations are there in case someone disagree with what I've said or thinks that I've misunderstood a passage and wants to challenge me. I am used to a forum that automatically hyperlinks verse references for ease of looking them up, so I usually find it better to just give the verse references to save space, especially in forums with low character limits per post.

In

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and

Romans 10:5-8 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);

quotes that passage as the word of faith that we proclaim, so believing that we can be doers of the law is not a matter of exalting ourselves, but a matter of having faith in God's word. Moreover, there are a number of examples of people in the Bible who were doers of the law, such as those in

Joshua 22:1-3 At that time Joshua summoned the Reubenites and the Gadites and the half-tribe of Manasseh, 2 and said to them, “You have kept all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you and have obeyed my voice in all that I have commanded you. 3 You have not forsaken your brothers these many days, down to this day, but have been careful to keep the charge of the Lord your God.

Luke 1:5-6 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah,[a] of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.

Revelation 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.[b]

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes,[c] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

While do not earn our justification as the result of having first obeyed God's law, it is nevertheless still true that all of those who will be justified are doers of the law.

We become someone who has faith, someone who will be justified, and someone who is a doer of the law all at the same time, so someone who is not one of those things is also not the others, but we do not become justified as the result of having first obeyed God's law.

Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and in

Matthew 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”


Jesus inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn him, so that is his yoke and burden. Furthermore, but Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing

(Jeremiah 6:16-19)
Thus says the Lord:
“Stand by the roads, and look,
and ask for the ancient paths,
where the good way is; and walk in it,
and find rest for your souls.
But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
17 I set watchmen over you, saying,
‘Pay attention to the sound of the trumpet!’
But they said, ‘We will not pay attention.’
18 Therefore hear, O nations,
and know, O congregation, what will happen to them.
19 Hear, O earth; behold, I am bringing disaster upon this people,
the fruit of their devices,
because they have not paid attention to my words;
and as for my law, they have rejected it.

where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so there is no room for thinking that his yoke and burden is something other than God's word.

The Spirit has the role of leading us in truth

John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law

Ezekiel 36:26-27 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

and the Mosaic Law is truth

Psalms 119:142 Your righteousness is righteous forever, and your law is true.

Deut 29:1 These are the terms of the covenant the LORD commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with them at Horeb.

In Jeremiah 31:33, it uses the Hebrew word "Torah", which refers to the Mosaic Law, so you are quibbling.


In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Mosaic Law, so if Jesus had tried to raise the bar, then he would have sinned and disqualified himself from being our Savior. However, even if Jesus had could raise the bar without disqualifying himself as our Savior, then that would mean that at the very least we should obey the Mosaic Law plus whatever else he raised the bar to. The reality is though that everything in the Beatitudes rooted in the OT. If we correctly understand what is being commanded against by the 7th and 10th Commandments against adultery and against coveting in our hearts, then we will no look at a woman with lust in our hearts, so Jesus wasn't teaching anything brand new.


Indeed.


Nowhere does the Bible say that God knew when God gave the Mosaic Law that it would be impossible to keep, but rather it states that it is not too difficult for us to keep (Deuteronomy 30:11-16) and that is the word of faith that we proclaim (Romans 10:5-8). If it were too difficult for us to keep, then we could correctly say that God was responsible for our failure to keep it. The good kings tended to live for much longer than the evil kings did, so while there were more evil kings, they were under a good king for a majority of the time, which while being far from perfect, it is even further from being a complete failure to keep the Mosaic Law. While Deuteronomy 30:1-10 prophesies that the Israelites would turn away from the Mosaic Law and be exiled, it also prophesies that they would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is in accordance with prophesies in regard to the New Covenant.


The Spirit who has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27).


Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to practice Judaism by living in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he is the most religious person, and that is also the way that we live when He is living in us.

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Mosaic Law, so if Jesus had tried to raise the bar, then he would have sinned and disqualified himself from being our Savior. However, even if Jesus had could raise the bar without disqualifying himself as our Savior, then that would mean that at the very least we should obey the Mosaic Law plus whatever else he raised the bar to. The reality is though that everything in the Beatitudes rooted in the OT. If we correctly understand what is being commanded against by the 7th and 10th Commandments against adultery and against coveting in our hearts, then we will no look at a woman with lust in our hearts, so Jesus wasn't teaching anything brand new. [/QUOTE}

Jesus removed the death penalty that the law permitted. Jesus removed divorce by a graceless husband. The mosaic law allowed an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, life for life. Jesus commanded us to tue=rn the other cheek. The law allowed Israelites to hate their enemies. Jesus commands us to love our enemies to our death. The old testament believers considered the mosaic law to be perfect. But the mosaic law fades into a shadow compared to the love lived out under the power of the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

The mosaic law was better than the laws of the nations around Israel, and led Israel towards an understanding of God's gracious and loving nature that they were to grow to emulate over time.


The Spirit teaches us and empowers us to live the self-sacrificial love of Jesus life and death on Calvary towards others. That is a much greater standard than what the mosaic law required.

No. Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the Father and the Spirit of Life. In doing so He surpassed the expectations of the mosaic law as comprehensively as the sunlight surpasses a candle.

If you will live under the law you will be cursed, it really is that stark.

Be warned.

Nobody grieved Paul like those who came to Galatia preaching that we must obey the law of Moses.

Jesus removed the death penalty that the law permitted. Jesus removed divorce by a graceless husband. The mosaic law allowed an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, life for life. Jesus commanded us to tue=rn the other cheek. The law allowed Israelites to hate their enemies. Jesus commands us to love our enemies to our death. The old testament believers considered the mosaic law to be perfect. But the mosaic law fades into a shadow compared to the love lived out under the power of the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

The mosaic law was better than the laws of the nations around Israel, and led Israel towards an understanding of God's gracious and loving nature that they were to grow to emulate over time.

The Spirit teaches us and empowers us to live the self-sacrificial love of Jesus life and death on Calvary towards others. That is a much greater standard than what the mosaic law required.

No. Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the Father and the Spirit of Life. In doing so He surpassed the expectations of the mosaic law as comprehensively as the sunlight surpasses a candle.

The greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law are to love God and our neighbor and what Jesus did was not something other than that. The Mosaic Law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so Jesus embodied the Mosaic Law by living in sinless obedience to it and he did not live at a higher standard than God's word.

The position that you will be cursed if you live under God's law is the position that God gave the law with the goal of cursing His children, which is expressing an extremely negative view of God when in reality His law was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). According to Deuteronomy 27-28 relying on God's law is the way to be blessed while not relying on it is the way to be cursed. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, God's law is not too difficult to obey and obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! In Psalms 119:1, those who obey God's law will be blessed, and there are many other verses that repeatedly say that obedience to God's law is the way to be blessed, but you say it is the way to be cursed, so I'll stick with what the Bible says.


In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Furthermore, Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to repent and obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example. Paul was a servant of God and an apostle of Christ, so it should not make sense to you to interpret Galatians as saying that Paul was grieved by those who were teaching to follow Christ's example of obedience to God, but rather you should be quicker to think that you must have misunderstood Galatians.

In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against the Mosaic Law, so if you think that Paul did that, then according to God you should consider him to be a false prophet. The bottom line is what we must obey God rather than man, so if it comes down to obeying God or obeying Paul, then we should be quicker to disregard everything Paul said than to disregard anything that God has commanded, though the reality is that Paul was a servant of God who never spoke against anyone obeying anything that He has commanded.

Don't confuse the written word with the spoken Word. They are not the same thing.

You don't stick with what God says stop kidding yourself, and stop the pretence that you yourself are keeping the law. You are trying to stick with what God said to the Jews, which during 2, 000 years they were unable to do.

The sum of the law is "thou shalt love the Lord with all thine heart and mind and soul." You don't so stop the pretence.

But you are trying to tell everyone else they gotta, you know what Jesus called the upkeepers of the law

Because the flesh was unable to keep the letter of the law God abolished it as a way to achieve righteousness. That is God's word which you are in rebellion against

I'm not questioning your sincerity in presenting your reading of scripture, I just don't agree with your perception. I perceive that the veil remains over your eyes when the ancient covenant is read.
The precedent of Deuteronomy 30 is Deuteronomy 29:1's signal toward this ancient (even older than Moses law) covenant being spoke of in Deuteronomy 30.

Deut 29:1 These are the terms of the covenant the LORD commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with them at Horeb.