The Security Of The Believer

so true. Comes more easy giving it with experience to I guess. And of course when your love is rejected you learn to handle that to

Of course the father has many kids who have rejected his love at sometime to is where I was going.

I guess our father has well and truly learnt how to handle that and know how to fix it

I have been thinking recently, which is never a good thing. But how could a branch, unbeliever, ever be in Jesus to begin with? According to Paul, that's impossible. Those branches "in Jesus" have to be believers.

Cameron's your best bet for that one. There is the holy spirit on the outer expression for that one who finds the Lost is my best guess

I was thinking about the lengthy discussion we had about saved children in the old t Cameron 🙂 it opened my eyes to something

But it is going to really have to be convincing. I just cannot see how someone without being saved could ever be "in Jesus."

I wasn't bringing our discussion we had about the Mathew into it when I mentioned earlier in the thread about the sheep who follow.

You never started it, you just caught me at a time when I was annoyed.

So I apologize for my behaviour towards you

So just.relax as we are friends now 💪👍

See the branch with fruit on it. This looks like many people make up this branch to produce the whole bundle of fruit. This is not one person. A vine and each branch becomes many branches. It seems impossible for that to mean one person but clearly many people.

I have no ill feelings at all. I took it as a discussion only

This is a good insight. The exercise of discipline can actually make one closer and feel more loved or cause separation. I took a class called Growing Kids God's Way as a young parent. I was genuinely concerned about being a good father. When I looked to the Bible, I found nothing but poor examples. David had unruly kids. Eli didn't discipline his children. Even Abraham seemed to pass his penchant for shading the truth to his lineage.
One of the things I learned was that all disobedience isn't rebellion. Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child. Sometimes children are forgetful or don't grasp the import of a particular teaching. So the class taught to give the child a second chance to obey. If they complied, it is a matter of foolishness. If they still don't comply, it is a matter of rebellion. Foolishness requires training. Rebellion requires discipline.

I could be wrong. Now I am thinking one branch is one person after looking at the picture.

You are correct. The difficulty arises from the sentence structure in John 15:2. Rather than ...every branch in me that beareth not fruit...would be better understood...every branch not bearing fruit in me...
There is fruit that men can produce apart from Christ. This fruit is always bad fruit because it is not produced through the work of Christ. Good fruit is only produced as a result of the work of Christ in is...apart from me, you can do nothing...John 15:5.

But I read the entire chapter of John 15 and this tripped me up. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Are we not friends then if we do not do His commands?

Jesus' references to commands and commandments is a reminder to us to make our salvation sure. In other words, is my life as a whole one of obedience? It doesn't mean that we never sin.

That kind of floors me about Verse 14. I don't see how we are still in the vine if we do not do His commands. I should have not read the whole chapter. But it seems this Verse is a one way only meaning and the opposite means we are no longer friends.

But if we do not do His commands I am now feeling certain I am no longer His friend. That can't be good. That has to mean more than just being trimmed.

thanks Mike i appreciate that, we need more people with this sentiment ☺️

I was a bit grief stricken by how much you let things go after i could have quite nearly assassinated any chance of you ever having any credibility here.

All tho that was never my intention.

I'm truly sorry 😔 and I was ashamed of my self, when our brother @Kroogz in not so many words hinted at how hard I had hit you.

sorry I hope we can start a fresh.

and.i can see your policing qualities too ☺️

God gave us His commands to follow. If we keep His commandments, we are followers of the one true Shepherd. If we go around stealing, murdering, committing adultery, etc., certainly we cannot be His friends.