Where does the justification for The New Testament doers of the law in Romans 2:13 originate from?

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Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Obviously we cannot follow anything involving the temple since it has been knocked down.
Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

You either follow ALL of the law, or you are a lawbreaker.
 
Dec 13, 2023
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Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

You either follow ALL of the law, or you are a lawbreaker.
Romans 2:11-15
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For whosoever have sinned without the law, shall perish without the law; and whosoever have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law. 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves: 15 Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another,
 
Dec 18, 2023
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This thread has a revolving door policy, you can keep coming back if you don't like.
lol Charly Chaplin I can see why you stick to your guns and dont trip up 😋

My dad would alway do a Charly chaplain impersonation lol.

I think you've just given your age away with that video tho haha
 

achduke7

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Oct 3, 2023
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Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

You either follow ALL of the law, or you are a lawbreaker.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Obviously we cannot follow anything involving the temple since it has been knocked down.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them
How's that working out for you regarding finding a priest to inspect your sacrificial lamb at the Temple in Jerusalem?
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them
This is what my pastor challenged me on. Don't focus on what you are doing. Focus on what the Son did.

HE gave you the gift of the Spirit within you the moment you were saved.

HE will cause you to walk in His statutes........The doctrine of the filling/walking/fellowship in the Spirit.

Do not grieve the Spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

And you will fulfill ALL that He wants from you.

But if our motive is self/flesh, and doing them for our justification:

Gal 5:4~~You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

Gal 5:16~~But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
 

Evmur

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Actually the Gentiles did have some specific Laws to abide by. Acts 15:
19 Wherefore I judge that we trouble not them that from among the Gentiles are turning to God,

20 but that we write to them to abstain from the pollutions of idols, and from sexual lewdness, and from what is strangled, and from blood.

This even exists today.
the ability to attain to these is by grace received. to try to attain to them by obeying commands actually magnifies the sin and makes it likely we will fall.

Have done with the law and walk in the Spirit.
 

achduke7

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Oct 3, 2023
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How's that working out for you regarding finding a priest to inspect your sacrificial lamb at the Temple in Jerusalem?
You are arguing against scripture. I never said it is possible for all laws to be currently adhered to. There is no temple currently and there are no appointed Levite priests so all those laws are moot at this time. Were all the laws followed the 40 years while Israel was in exodus after Egypt? Did God even force them to be circumcised as they walk?

As for me I will listen to the Holy Spirit.
 

achduke7

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Oct 3, 2023
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impossible ... the law has been scrapped for the church.
Where does it say that? We are not saved by faith but saved people do good works. The law does not save us but it does show us when we are breaking the law.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
 

Evmur

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Where does it say that? We are not saved by faith but saved people do good works. The law does not save us but it does show us when we are breaking the law.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
We are in the NEW covenant, the old covenant is finished.
 
Dec 14, 2023
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the ability to attain to these is by grace received. to try to attain to them by obeying commands actually magnifies the sin and makes it likely we will fall.

Have done with the law and walk in the Spirit.
What You say is true, but these Laws did and do exist for Gentiles whether one accepts it or not. And You should be able to be faithful to Your wife with or without God. But God still had to have it written out for the Gentiles. And this is not part of the Mosaic Law. This is New Testament Laws. Stop intertwining the two.
 

achduke7

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We are in the NEW covenant, the old covenant is finished.
The New Covenant is God putting his Holy Spirit inside of us to follow his law. This is a Covenant written into our hearts instead of on stone or paper.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
 

Aaron56

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The New Covenant is God putting his Holy Spirit inside of us to follow his law. This is a Covenant written into our hearts instead of on stone or paper.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
You forgot to highlight the most important part: "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt..."

What you're saying is that only the place where the covenant is written is changed. No. Its very essence is different.

"they shall all know me"

This is understood as knowing the Lord intimately: His very being and nature. Previously he wrote "although I was an husband unto them". So this "knowing" is not knowledge, it is about being one flesh with God. How is this possible? Because His nature is put into all who are in Christ. Together the saints actually BECOME the body of Christ: His flesh and His bones. When you are in the Son and the Son is in you, you need no man to teach you about your Father. Why? Because the nature of the son IS the nature of the father. This is true in the natural as well as the spiritual.
 

achduke7

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Oct 3, 2023
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You forgot to highlight the most important part: "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt..."

What you're saying is that only the place where the covenant is written is changed. No. Its very essence is different.

"they shall all know me"

This is understood as knowing the Lord intimately: His very being and nature. Previously he wrote "although I was an husband unto them". So this "knowing" is not knowledge, it is about being one flesh with God. How is this possible? Because His nature is put into all who are in Christ. Together the saints actually BECOME the body of Christ: His flesh and His bones. When you are in the Son and the Son is in you, you need no man to teach you about your Father. Why? Because the nature of the son IS the nature of the father. This is true in the natural as well as the spiritual.
The New Covenant has many changes. I was just showing the part in the OT where the promise of the Holy Spirit in us and the law inside of us.

God does not change so why would he tells us something is good or bad and then take it back and now say don't worry it is not bad anymore? Now he gives us his Spirit to show us the proper way to follow the law. We are the temple for God.

God said eating swine is an abomination. Did he change his mind?
 

Aaron56

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God said eating swine is an abomination. Did he change his mind?
You mean like this:

The next day at about the sixth hour, as the men were approaching the city on their journey, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

He saw heaven open and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth, as well as birds of the air. Then a voice said to him: “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!”

“No, Lord!” Peter answered. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

The voice spoke to him a second time: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

This happened three times, and all at once the sheet was taken back up into heaven.


Doesn't specifically mention swine but it does mention things that were impure or unclean under the law.

Now, God made them clean.

God didn't change His mind. Jesus fulfilled the law. God was showing Peter that that the law no longer governed his life.

And how did God get the word out to Peter? Not through a written scripture or another stone carving... God spoke to Peter's spirit. Spirit to spirit was made possible by Christ's indwelling Spirit in Peter.
 

achduke7

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Oct 3, 2023
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You mean like this:

The next day at about the sixth hour, as the men were approaching the city on their journey, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

He saw heaven open and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth, as well as birds of the air. Then a voice said to him: “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!”

“No, Lord!” Peter answered. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

The voice spoke to him a second time: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

This happened three times, and all at once the sheet was taken back up into heaven.

Doesn't specifically mention swine but it does mention things that were impure or unclean under the law.

Now, God made them clean.

God didn't change His mind. Jesus fulfilled the law. God was showing Peter that that the law no longer governed his life.

And how did God get the word out to Peter? Not through a written scripture or another stone carving... God spoke to Peter's spirit. Spirit to spirit was made possible by Christ's indwelling Spirit in Peter.
Although unclean food was used as an example for Peter the context of the whole vision was about God making the gentiles clean.

If you read Isaiah you will see that before the end times judgement that God still views swine as an abomination.

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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You mean like this:

The next day at about the sixth hour, as the men were approaching the city on their journey, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

He saw heaven open and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth, as well as birds of the air. Then a voice said to him: “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!”

“No, Lord!” Peter answered. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

The voice spoke to him a second time: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

This happened three times, and all at once the sheet was taken back up into heaven.

Doesn't specifically mention swine but it does mention things that were impure or unclean under the law.

Now, God made them clean.

God didn't change His mind. Jesus fulfilled the law. God was showing Peter that that the law no longer governed his life.

And how did God get the word out to Peter? Not through a written scripture or another stone carving... God spoke to Peter's spirit. Spirit to spirit was made possible by Christ's indwelling Spirit in Peter.
Mark 7:19
ESVsince it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

NIVFor it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.' (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

NASBbecause it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?' ( Thereby He declared all foods clean.)

CSBFor it doesn't go into his heart but into the stomach and is eliminated" (thus he declared all foods clean ).

NLTFood doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.' (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.)
 

achduke7

Active member
Oct 3, 2023
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Mark 7:19
ESVsince it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

NIVFor it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.' (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

NASBbecause it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?' ( Thereby He declared all foods clean.)

CSBFor it doesn't go into his heart but into the stomach and is eliminated" (thus he declared all foods clean ).

NLTFood doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.' (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.)
Food is clean. What is food? Is dirt food? Is swine food to a Jew? Are worms food?
 

Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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Although unclean food was used as an example for Peter the context of the whole vision was about God making the gentiles clean.

If you read Isaiah you will see that before the end times judgement that God still views swine as an abomination.

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
It's almost like God was writing to Jews in language the Jews would understand... Jews who were still under the law.