Daniel 9 Already Fulfilled

Yahshua · Dec 9, 2023

The short answer is the AOD = The Roman Army because they also fulfill what the historic AOD was: the ending of the temple daily.

Just as a reminder; Historicists believe end-time prophecies are fulfilled progressively throughout human history, proving that God steers human events and that everything that has happened in the last ~2k years is laid out by God's end-time prophecies. So time is our context. Now, within any eschatological position, there are nuanced disagreements but overall this is how we treat prophecy.

Order of Events:

1) Matthew 24 begins just after Messiah gives a scathing rebuke to the Pharisees and His lament of His people rejecting Him. At the very end of chapter 23 He says, "BEHOLD, your house is left unto you desolate! For I say unto you, you shall not see me again, until you say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord!"

2) The Messiah (God in the flesh) was hurt by their rejection and passed judgment on the people. If the words of a true prophet always come true then what of the words of THEE Word of God? So however it happens, Messiah's words caused the desolation.

3) In Matthew 24, Messiah and His disciples are walking out of the temple as the disciples admire its structures, when Messiah says "You see all of this? Not one stone will be left standing". The disciples then asked him when it would happen and what will be the signs of His return and the end of the age.

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So the Messiah's Olivet Discourse describes (a) the destruction/desolation of that Temple, (b) the punishment of the Jews, and (c) a summary of events to follow until He returns.

- The temple was always known as "The House", whether "The House of the Lord", or "The [Jews'] House of Worship". Messiah was in the house rebuking the Pharisees and His people in Matthew 23.

- At the end of Matthew 23, Messiah tells them that THEIR HOUSE, that temple, will be made desolate for rejecting Him.

- Now, if we reference Daniel 9:26-27 [KJV] it says:

And after [62 weeks] shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So Daniel 9:26-27 says:
- The Messiah will be cut off
- The city and Sanctuary (Temple) will be destroyed (by the people of the prince to come)
- He shall make it desolate (whoever "he" is)

And in Matthew 23:38-39 Messiah says:
- Your house (Temple) is now left desolate

....So, in hindsight from the Historicist POV, the Messiah is "He" who was prophesied to make The 2nd Temple desolate in Daniel 9:27 and history testifies to its desolation in 70 AD.

Desolation = Destruction. This is our context for Matthew 24:15.

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4) Messiah lists several events that would begin before the destruction of the temple: Deception (false prophets), Wars, Famines, Pestilences (disease/death), and signs like Earthquakes in random places. These would start. Mark 13:1,6-8, and Luke 21:5,8-11 are additional witnesses testifying to the same Olivet Discourse listing these same events that were to begin before the Temple's desolation.

So we can synchronize all three gospels and let each fill in the missing pieces.

5) Messiah then tells the disciples that they were going to suffer, be persecuted, and killed before the destruction of the temple, but that through them the gospel will be preached to all the nations.

The Book of Acts is an account of the disciples spreading the gospels to all the nations of the known world while being persecuted and killed fulfilling this prediction. History records the martyrdom of the apostles (except for John) in the 1st century AD before 70 AD destruction.

6) In Matthew 24:15, Messiah then says "When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place - as spoken by Daniel - GET OUT!" Mark 13:14 records Messiah saying, "When you see the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not - as spoken by Daniel - GET OUT!" But Luke 21:20 records Messiah saying, "When you see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation is near. GET OUT!"

- Desolation = Destruction, which we know happened in 70 AD.

- The temple's destruction was to involve an army surrounding and besieging Jerusalem.

- Something abominable must have stood in the holy place, where it ought not to be before the destruction of the temple.

So in my view, the Messiah is referring to the Roman army as the "abomination of desolation". It is that army entering into the holy city and onto the temple mount that is the "abomination" that eventually desolates the temple. Messiah references Daniel because the passages prophesy all AODs that were meant to occur starting when the daily sacrifice was first ended by Antiochus Epiphanes in 167 BC.

The priests were commanded to keep the fire of the altar continually burning and to offer a morning and evening lamb each day. This was not a sacrifice for sin, but an offering. But each time they were prevented from doing so it was considered "desolation".

Daniel 8:13
Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

So, the Roman army, ending the daily sacrifice for good by destroying the temple completely, is the AOD. Once they begin to enter into the city (Luke 21:20) the people in the know were to flee.

The Timeframe of tribulation for the Jews begins.

Yahshua · Dec 9, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Note that the points you share are specific to Daniel's people and Jerusalem, not necessarily to the world. It was a countdown that was a multiplication of the original punishment of 70 years mentioned in Jeremiah 25:9-13. But as is written in Leviticus 26, if - during the time of punishment - the people continued in sin then the punishment would multiply by 7. This is where the 70 "weeks" timeframe comes from. The people of Judah had 70 sevens to...

1. To finish the transgression. The transgression was fully completed when they rejected and killed His Son. Before that, their crime was breaking the covenant and being disobedient, which the Messiah was coming to mend. Recall, that several times in biblical history The Almighty wants a nation's crime/sins to reach a "full" measure before judgment falls because He is just. Jerusalem's sins had to reach a full.

2. To make an end of sins = To stop Jerusalem's sin against Almighty. They could've accepted the Messiah to end sin, but destruction stops all sin too.

3. Reconciliation for iniquity = The Cross.

4. Everlasting Righteousness = The Resurrection. This occurred when the 2nd Adam - who was righteous all His mortal life - became a lifegiving spirit upon resurrection. He who is referred to as "Our Righteousness" then became "everlasting"; an eternal high priest (as opposed to mortal high priests who sinned, got old, and died. He is able to complete the work.

5. "To seal" is better translated as "to mark or to affix a seal". A seal is a confirmation. Recall that Daniel prayed in chapter 9 asking for understanding because He was studying the book of Jeremiah. In Jeremiah is the prophecy of the new covenant...which was confirmed by the Messiah.

6. Anoint the Most Holy = To take Messiah's blood to the true altar in heaven and sprinkle it there. Because only the blood of the Messiah can cleanse sin. Hebrews 9.

Yahshua · Dec 9, 2023

Ted01 said:

I didn't honestly think this topic would cause a lot of argument. I've been here for a while, and I've learned - through much pain lol - that if I preface my replies as "what I believe" or "my POV" then it goes a long way to avoid a lot of confrontation. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here (anymore lol).

Plus, words on a screen aren't able to transmit tone or emotion very well as everyone has their own unique way of reading, which can be affected by how they feel.

So, I try to limit my replies in that way. Does this work all the time? Absolutely not lol

GaryA · Dec 9, 2023

Yahshua said:

I didn't honestly think this topic would cause a lot of argument. I've been here for a while, and I've learned - through much pain lol - that if I preface my replies as "what I believe" or "my POV" then it goes a long way to avoid a lot of confrontation. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here (anymore lol).

Plus, words on a screen aren't able to transmit tone or emotion very well as everyone has their own unique way of reading, which can be affected by how they feel.

So, I try to limit my replies in that way. Does this work all the time? Absolutely not lol

I believe you do quite well at keeping the content of your posts "in the neutral zone"... (Star Trek reference)

Nehemiah6 · Dec 9, 2023

Yahshua said:

That may be so, but that does not mean that all prophecies should not be brought together to determine what a certain verse is saying.

Israel and the Jews are keys to the future on earth with Christ as the King. Indeed according to all Bible prophecies Israel is CENTRAL to all the saved nations on earth, and Jerusalem is central to proper worship at that time.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 9, 2023

Ted01 said:

What insults? There are no insults in what I posted. But obviously you do not have any suitable response to my post.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 9, 2023

GaryA said:

Not really. None of the passages related to the Rapture have anything to say about any Tribulation period connection. And the fact that the words "church" and "churches" are absent from Revelation 4-18 further confirms this.

selahsays · Dec 9, 2023

Here’s my 2 cents worth: Daniel 9:24 will be fulfilled when the Messiah returns at the 7th trump and the Millennium begins.

montana123 · Dec 9, 2023

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

70 weeks are determined upon Israel as a nation to make an end of sins, and to anoint the most holy who is Jesus.

At the end of the 70 weeks Israel as a nation has to be in the truth that Jesus is their Messiah which has not happened yet.

So Daniel 9 could of not of been fulfilled.

Which the Bible says Israel is blinded in part for they acknowledge the Old Testament but not the New Testament, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in which is when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles, and so all Israel shall be saved which God will restore the kingdom on Earth back to Israel.

Which He will make a full end of all the Gentile nations, but not make a full end of Israel although they will not be wholly unpunished.

Which He said He will bring the whole house of Israel back to their land, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, and they will know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He will never hide His face from them again.

In verse 26 it says the people of the prince to come shall destroy the city and sanctuary, and then in verse 27 continues talking about the prince to come that shall confirm a covenant with many for one week which is 7 years, and shall spread abominations.

The reason why the 70th week is postponed is because Israel is blinded in part until the end time which is now so the time for the 70th week will happen soon for that is the time Israel as a nation will be brought in to the truth.

God is love, and loves all people, but He has to end sin on Earth one day for He is not going to allow mankind to keep sinning on Earth, and everything is planned on a time schedule.

God is giving the world 7 years to have their way, and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the antichrist, and when they take his mark then salvation is no longer available to the world for they now have the nature of a devil, and belong to the devil, so it is over.

The Israel and Hamas war, Arabs, will be the war of the world as they divide themselves choosing which side they support, which we see happening as they are spewing out threats, and warnings to each other.

The New Age Christ will negotiate peace in the Middle East resulting in a 7 years peace treaty that will stop the fighting between Israel and the Arabs, which will stop the fighting in the world that fought with each other because of choosing sides.

God warns the saints of the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual, and a god, and Jesus evolved to be an ascended master, and there is no personal God, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher in the evolution process they believe is to take place which is the 5th root race, 6th sub-race, and the next one will be the 5th root race, 7th sub-race, which is to occur about 28,000 years from now.

The time will come the people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts the new age movement.

They shall come out at the latter times which is the last days of the last days.

Their beliefs will be of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils for they follow Lucifer believing he is a god, and an alien, that descended from Venus to Earth to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man, thus the fall which is how they interpret it, and will help mankind in the future to have peace, and advance, and evolve, which they talk about the return of the gods.

They do not believe Lucifer is a fallen angel because they do not believe in a God.

The United Nations supports new age organization, and is with them as well as Science.

Which Science says humans are not of the Earth, and the world needs to prepare for an alien encounter.

Their conscious shall be seared with a hot iron which the New Age Christ by peace shall destroy many which they believe they are doing the will of nature as they cause to happen population reduction by terrible means, and go against all people who oppose them.

They will forbid a man and a woman to marry for population reduction which they do not believe they have to keep the human race going on by birth for they will evolve to be spiritual and live forever.

Their beliefs will be of fables, make believe, fantasy, but they believe in evolution so it makes sense to them they are still evolving.

They will command to abstain from meats which they will now allow the consumption of meat anymore as they look at everything from the natural perspective reverencing animals.

When the peace treaty happens the New Age Christ will work in the world, and be considered a great man of peace, and will speak like no other person they heard speak understanding dark sentences, and the world will be mesmerized by him, and he will become the biggest player on the world scene.

The world will be split in to ten sections with a leader in each section who will support the New Age Christ, and he will push the agenda of the new age movement which he will think to change times and laws, and spreads his abominations of the occult, and it is all about people and no personal God throughout the Earth.

Nothing will be able to be taught contrary to the new age movement which all religions will be interpreted by them.

The religion of Islam will rebel against the world for they will say it is an insult to Allah, and they are hindering them from preaching their religion, which they are devastated by nuclear weapons plucking them up by the roots, which the Bible says that 3 horns shall be plucked up by the roots, and the 6th trumpet describes nuclear weapons, which that is when the world turns to the New Age Christ to help them to have peace on Earth.

Pope Francis elected 72% of the Cardinals so they will be in the majority position to elect the new Pope who will side with the New Age Christ, and end up being the head of a unified religious system the false prophet.

Which is mystery Babylon which is the unified religious system that all religions are a part of it interpreted by the new age movement.

Which when the 10 horns shall hate her and burn her with fire, and make her desolate when the New Age Christ claims to be God for they do not need her anymore.

The peace treaty will pave the way for all Hebrews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will make it happen, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good towards the Hebrews, and they will not be left in the nations anymore.

Continued in next post

montana123 · Dec 9, 2023

Continued

They will prepare the cities to move all people in to the cities, and no development can happen outside city limits, and the people become the police force of the cities.

Which is United Nations Agenda 21 a sustainability act that 179 nations agreed to it in 1992.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

stigma
stig'-mah
From a primary word στίζω stizō (to “stick”, that is, prick); a mark incised or punched (for recognition of ownership), that is, (figuratively) scar of service: - mark.

They will be given a microchip under the skin like a GPS tracking system for human, and if a crime happens they will know who was in the area, and how close they were to the crime scene.

This will cut out judges, lawyers, and the now known police force.

All information will be on the chip including finances for it is the one world economic system which no person can buy or sell without the chip.

The beast's agenda is there is no personal God to help mankind but their technology, and devices, can help to achieve peace on Earth.

They will go against all people who oppose them for they are going against their system to have peace on Earth.

When they take the microchip, mark of the beast, then salvation is no longer available to them, and the fulness of the Gentiles have come in.

God will send Israel 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and Israel as a nation will be in the truth.

The first three and one half years salvation is available to the world so the saints will remain on Earth to represent the truth.

The beast blasphemes God and His tabernacle, and those that dwell in heaven, which he would not have to do that if the saints were not on Earth which he is telling the world Christianity is false, and there is no personal God.

Which is why Paul said the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first which is the response of the world to the Gospel which they stopped the preaching of it on a world wide level all nations governments involved with that.

Which at the end of the first three and one half years the transgressors have come to the full.

And the man of sin claims to be God which the 10 horns hand their power over to him, and that is how he gets control of the world, which he has power to continue for three and one half years, and has power over all nations, kindreds, and tongues.

The wrath of God is not in the 7 years period for the world has salvation available to them for the first three and one half years so the wrath of God would not be there for it would be the same as now with grace being available.

The last three and one half years the wrath of God is not there for the beast has power to rule during that time which he can only have that power if God allowed him, so if he is ruling over the world for the last three and one half years how is the wrath of God there.

The wrath of God happens after the 7 years period is over.

The Bible says the beast makes war against the saints and prevails against them, and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when he they shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people all things are finished.

Which then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to God, and then put down all power, authority, and rule, and Jesus takes over the Earth.

They talk about angel number and the angel number 666.

The occult believes in the power of numbers, and the timing, adding, and grouping of numbers, which they believe will give them more power through nature.

6 is the number of a person, or soul of a person, so the New Age Christ assigned himself the number 666, a triple 6, for he believes it will give him more power through nature.

666 is a number that exalts people.

Adstar · Dec 10, 2023

Yahshua said:

I have never been a firm believer in the 7 year great tribulation doctrine but at the same time i have never had a firm belief against it.. Tribulation has been a constant background happening to the body of Christ since it was founded on the day of Pentecost.. Anti- Christian persecution is tribulation for the Saints..

Note

Click to expand...

Yes the catholic religion has perpetrated much tribulation on the Saints during the last 1700 years..

I have to disagree on this one.. The type of tribulation mentioned in the Bible in relation to the Bible quote ""there'd be no flesh left"" i believe is referring to the great natural disasters famines and pestilence that will happen during the great tribulation..

(Matthew 24:21-22) "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. {22} And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened."

Cameron143 · Dec 10, 2023

montana123 said:

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

70 weeks are determined upon Israel as a nation to make an end of sins, and to anoint the most holy who is Jesus.

At the end of the 70 weeks Israel as a nation has to be in the truth that Jesus is their Messiah which has not happened yet.

So Daniel 9 could of not of been fulfilled.

Which the Bible says Israel is blinded in part for they acknowledge the Old Testament but not the New Testament, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in which is when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles, and so all Israel shall be saved which God will restore the kingdom on Earth back to Israel.

Which He will make a full end of all the Gentile nations, but not make a full end of Israel although they will not be wholly unpunished.

Which He said He will bring the whole house of Israel back to their land, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, and they will know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He will never hide His face from them again.

In verse 26 it says the people of the prince to come shall destroy the city and sanctuary, and then in verse 27 continues talking about the prince to come that shall confirm a covenant with many for one week which is 7 years, and shall spread abominations.

The reason why the 70th week is postponed is because Israel is blinded in part until the end time which is now so the time for the 70th week will happen soon for that is the time Israel as a nation will be brought in to the truth.

God is love, and loves all people, but He has to end sin on Earth one day for He is not going to allow mankind to keep sinning on Earth, and everything is planned on a time schedule.

God is giving the world 7 years to have their way, and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the antichrist, and when they take his mark then salvation is no longer available to the world for they now have the nature of a devil, and belong to the devil, so it is over.

The Israel and Hamas war, Arabs, will be the war of the world as they divide themselves choosing which side they support, which we see happening as they are spewing out threats, and warnings to each other.

The New Age Christ will negotiate peace in the Middle East resulting in a 7 years peace treaty that will stop the fighting between Israel and the Arabs, which will stop the fighting in the world that fought with each other because of choosing sides.

God warns the saints of the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual, and a god, and Jesus evolved to be an ascended master, and there is no personal God, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher in the evolution process they believe is to take place which is the 5th root race, 6th sub-race, and the next one will be the 5th root race, 7th sub-race, which is to occur about 28,000 years from now.

The time will come the people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts the new age movement.

They shall come out at the latter times which is the last days of the last days.

Their beliefs will be of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils for they follow Lucifer believing he is a god, and an alien, that descended from Venus to Earth to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man, thus the fall which is how they interpret it, and will help mankind in the future to have peace, and advance, and evolve, which they talk about the return of the gods.

They do not believe Lucifer is a fallen angel because they do not believe in a God.

The United Nations supports new age organization, and is with them as well as Science.

Which Science says humans are not of the Earth, and the world needs to prepare for an alien encounter.

Their conscious shall be seared with a hot iron which the New Age Christ by peace shall destroy many which they believe they are doing the will of nature as they cause to happen population reduction by terrible means, and go against all people who oppose them.

They will forbid a man and a woman to marry for population reduction which they do not believe they have to keep the human race going on by birth for they will evolve to be spiritual and live forever.

Their beliefs will be of fables, make believe, fantasy, but they believe in evolution so it makes sense to them they are still evolving.

They will command to abstain from meats which they will now allow the consumption of meat anymore as they look at everything from the natural perspective reverencing animals.

When the peace treaty happens the New Age Christ will work in the world, and be considered a great man of peace, and will speak like no other person they heard speak understanding dark sentences, and the world will be mesmerized by him, and he will become the biggest player on the world scene.

The world will be split in to ten sections with a leader in each section who will support the New Age Christ, and he will push the agenda of the new age movement which he will think to change times and laws, and spreads his abominations of the occult, and it is all about people and no personal God throughout the Earth.

Nothing will be able to be taught contrary to the new age movement which all religions will be interpreted by them.

The religion of Islam will rebel against the world for they will say it is an insult to Allah, and they are hindering them from preaching their religion, which they are devastated by nuclear weapons plucking them up by the roots, which the Bible says that 3 horns shall be plucked up by the roots, and the 6th trumpet describes nuclear weapons, which that is when the world turns to the New Age Christ to help them to have peace on Earth.

Pope Francis elected 72% of the Cardinals so they will be in the majority position to elect the new Pope who will side with the New Age Christ, and end up being the head of a unified religious system the false prophet.

Which is mystery Babylon which is the unified religious system that all religions are a part of it interpreted by the new age movement.

Which when the 10 horns shall hate her and burn her with fire, and make her desolate when the New Age Christ claims to be God for they do not need her anymore.

The peace treaty will pave the way for all Hebrews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will make it happen, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good towards the Hebrews, and they will not be left in the nations anymore.

Continued in next post

Where does it say that at the end of the 70th week Israel must accept Jesus as Messiah?

Pilgrimshope · Dec 10, 2023

Yahshua said:

“To finish the transgression. The transgression was fully completed when they rejected and killed His Son.”

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, ( God ) which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, ( isreal) and went into a far country:

and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. ( early prophets ) And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: ( latter messianic prophets ) and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, ( the messiah ) saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. ( they rejected and killed him like the prophets before )

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

GaryA · Dec 10, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

No - really.

Daniel 9:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Out of these four verses (mostly verse 27), all of the following are conceived/imagined by the pre-trib rapture POV - absolutely none of which are biblical in the slightest degree whatsoever:

~ 7-year tribulation period
~ 7-year treaty with Israel
~ 7-year treaty broken in the middle of the week
~ AoD by 'Antichrist' in the middle of the 70th week
~ gap in 70 weeks between the 69th and 70th week

So - essentiallly - out of a single verse has been concocted these false ideas:

~ a '7-year tribulation period' as the End Times Scenario
~ a relationship between Israel and [the] 'Antichrist'

And, moreover, the Lord Jesus Christ ('he' x 3) has been erroneously labeled as [the] 'Antichrist'.

The biblical truth:

~ There is no 7-year 'prophetic' End Times period.
~ There will be no 7-year treaty between any antichrist and Israel (as being in accordance with bible prophecy).
~ The phrase 'overspreading of abominations' in verse 27 is not talking about the Abomination of Desolation.
~ There is no gap in the 70 weeks of Daniel. All 70 weeks "came and went" in a single unbroken span of 490 years.

The end of the 70th week occurred in 34 A.D. The events of circa 70 A.D. conclude the complete 100% fulfillment.

The events of the First Coming of Christ completed the fulfilling of all of the things listed in verse 24.

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

GaryA · Dec 10, 2023

To arrive at the proper conclusion, you must have/obtain a correct interpretation of scripture.

The severely incorrect interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 is what perpetuates the pre-trib rapture POV.

Don't believe me? Try to prop up the whole '7-year tribulation period' idea without this passage of scripture.

iamsoandso · Dec 10, 2023

Yahshua said:

Note that the points you share are specific to Daniel's people and Jerusalem, not necessarily to the world. It was a countdown that was a multiplication of the original punishment of 70 years mentioned in Jeremiah 25:9-13. But as is written in Leviticus 26, if - during the time of punishment - the people continued in sin then the punishment would multiply by 7. This is where the 70 "weeks" timeframe comes from. The people of Judah had 70 sevens to...

1. To finish the transgression. The transgression was fully completed when they rejected and killed His Son. Before that, their crime was breaking the covenant and being disobedient, which the Messiah was coming to mend. Recall, that several times in biblical history The Almighty wants a nation's crime/sins to reach a "full" measure before judgment falls because He is just. Jerusalem's sins had to reach a full.

2. To make an end of sins = To stop Jerusalem's sin against Almighty. They could've accepted the Messiah to end sin, but destruction stops all sin too.

3. Reconciliation for iniquity = The Cross.

4. Everlasting Righteousness = The Resurrection. This occurred when the 2nd Adam - who was righteous all His mortal life - became a lifegiving spirit upon resurrection. He who is referred to as "Our Righteousness" then became "everlasting"; an eternal high priest (as opposed to mortal high priests who sinned, got old, and died. He is able to complete the work.

5. "To seal" is better translated as "to mark or to affix a seal". A seal is a confirmation. Recall that Daniel prayed in chapter 9 asking for understanding because He was studying the book of Jeremiah. In Jeremiah is the prophecy of the new covenant...which was confirmed by the Messiah.

6. Anoint the Most Holy = To take Messiah's blood to the true altar in heaven and sprinkle it there. Because only the blood of the Messiah can cleanse sin. Hebrews 9.

In #4 of your post do you see the resurrection of just Jesus taking place or the first resurrection meaning all those in Christ? Why I'm asking is because of the many Scriptures in the Apostles writings which were after the DBR of Christ for instance 2 Timothy 2 17-18 written ad64-65 where Paul doesn't seem to think it had taken place yet. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_timothy/2.htm

GaryA · Dec 10, 2023

I read that as the resurrection of [just] Jesus.

Your confusion is understandable since the use of the words 'The Resurrection' (without adding 'of Christ' or 'of the Lord Jesus Christ' after it) usually always refers to the resurrection of the saints.

GaryA · Dec 10, 2023

Adstar said:

I believe you are on the right track. Just remember that the 'shortened' statement is [only] referring to the end of it and not the length of it.

I believe that the 'great tribulation' (as stated by Jesus in Matthew 24:21) began during that time and ends in [our] future. The worst is yet to come...

iamsoandso · Dec 10, 2023

GaryA said:

Then so in Matthew 27:52-53 the "bodies" of them were what were seen after the earthquake because if not they would have been resurrected before Jesus and then Jesus would not have been the first born of the dead. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/27.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/colossians/1-18.htm

GaryA · Dec 10, 2023

GaryA said:

Of course, that depends on how you define [the] 'worst'. But, it does not alter the time line or events.

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