Daniel 9 Already Fulfilled
- Thread starter Yahshua
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
This is a perfect example of misinterpretation.
You have assumed that "everlasting righteousness" means "everlasting righteousness on Earth among humans", but that isn't what the text says.
What did Jesus accomplished by His sacrifice? He made an end of sins and reconciliation for iniquity, and brought in everlasting righteousness for those who believe in Him. Further He anointed the most Holy (the most holy place... the real one, in heaven) by His blood.
You have assumed that "everlasting righteousness" means "everlasting righteousness on Earth among humans", but that isn't what the text says.
What did Jesus accomplished by His sacrifice? He made an end of sins and reconciliation for iniquity, and brought in everlasting righteousness for those who believe in Him. Further He anointed the most Holy (the most holy place... the real one, in heaven) by His blood.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Many have pondered this even in Acts 2:29-36(specifically though verse 34) Peter saw that David had not yet ascended to the Heavens(43+ days after Jesus resurrection) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/2.htm
I can agree with this much of your post - and, am happy to see you state it.
However, I have a different view on this part.
Daniel 9:
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
With regard to the phrase 'and to anoint the most Holy' - I believe that 'the most Holy' is referring to Jesus Himself rather than something He accomplished.
I believe the phrase 'and to anoint the most Holy' is referring to Jesus being 'anointed' at His baptism.
It is not saying that Jesus anointed [something]; rather, that Jesus was anointed [by the Father].
However, I have a different view on this part.
Daniel 9:
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
With regard to the phrase 'and to anoint the most Holy' - I believe that 'the most Holy' is referring to Jesus Himself rather than something He accomplished.
I believe the phrase 'and to anoint the most Holy' is referring to Jesus being 'anointed' at His baptism.
It is not saying that Jesus anointed [something]; rather, that Jesus was anointed [by the Father].
-
1
-
1
- Show all
That's how I would see it. In 1 Timothy 1:20 Hymenaeus(same person as in 2 Timothy 2 who was saying the resurrection was past ) along with Alexander was handed over to Satan to be disciplined not to blaspheme. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/1.htm
That is exactly what the text says. I have interpreted that verse correctly.
Not only does it speak of everlasting righteousness on earth but it also speaks of AN END OF SINS (along with four other conditions). Has there been an end of sins in Israel or anywhere in the world? No. Rather evil is getting progressively worse right now. But an end of sins means an end of sins.
Unless Daniel 9:24 is interpreted in light of the establishment of the perfect and righteous Kingdom of God on earth, it cannot be said to have been fulfilled. So here is the passage on which you and others should focus:
ISAIAH 11: EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUS UNDER CHRIST
And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins...
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
This will only happen when Daniel 7:13,14 is fulfilled:
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
This is when there will be an end of sins and everlasting righteousness.
Another poster also referred to the sacrifice of Christ, but Daniel 9:24 does not say "everlasting righteousness to those who believe on Christ"! And in fact since all Christians continue to have the sin nature even after they are born again, they do not have everlasting righteousness until the Resurrection/Rapture. In any event, that is not what Daniel 9:24 is talking about.
Not only does it speak of everlasting righteousness on earth but it also speaks of AN END OF SINS (along with four other conditions). Has there been an end of sins in Israel or anywhere in the world? No. Rather evil is getting progressively worse right now. But an end of sins means an end of sins.
Unless Daniel 9:24 is interpreted in light of the establishment of the perfect and righteous Kingdom of God on earth, it cannot be said to have been fulfilled. So here is the passage on which you and others should focus:
ISAIAH 11: EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUS UNDER CHRIST
And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins...
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
This will only happen when Daniel 7:13,14 is fulfilled:
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
This is when there will be an end of sins and everlasting righteousness.
Another poster also referred to the sacrifice of Christ, but Daniel 9:24 does not say "everlasting righteousness to those who believe on Christ"! And in fact since all Christians continue to have the sin nature even after they are born again, they do not have everlasting righteousness until the Resurrection/Rapture. In any event, that is not what Daniel 9:24 is talking about.
[Mat 24:15 KJV] 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[Mat 24:15 KJV] 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
The fall of Jerusalen in 70 AD. The Christians all recognized the situation and fled when the Roman army that had surrounded the city unexpectedly withdrew for no apparent reason.
[Mat 24:15 KJV] 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
The fall of Jerusalen in 70 AD. The Christians all recognized the situation and fled when the Roman army that had surrounded the city unexpectedly withdrew for no apparent reason.
-
1
- Show all
[Mat 24:15 KJV] 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[Mat 24:15 KJV] 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
The fall of Jerusalen in 70 AD. The Christians all recognized the situation and fled when the Roman army that had surrounded the city unexpectedly withdrew for no apparent reason.
[Mat 24:15 KJV] 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
The fall of Jerusalen in 70 AD. The Christians all recognized the situation and fled when the Roman army that had surrounded the city unexpectedly withdrew for no apparent reason.
That's right... yank verses out of a different context, and even from a different book entirely, and state categorically that they are speaking about exactly the same thing, on the assumption that whatever "I" don't think has been fulfilled yet must be an end-times prophecy and all force-fit together.
Um, no, that's not how one properly engages in hermeneutics. Rather, each passage must be considered in its own context first, and "if the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense". Well, as most of the plain sense makes sense, and the rest can make sense in that context, there is no justification to conclude that this passage is about anything other than the coming of Messiah the first time.
So let's try again.
Daniel 9:24-27 is Gabriel's prophetic explanation of Daniel's vision. Specific, then-future events are identified such as the command going out to rebuild Jerusalem, the wall being rebuilt during troublous times, and the coming of Messiah. A plain reading of the whole passage strongly implies that all the events of verse 24 would be fulfilled within that 70-week period, rather than at some later time. And no, I don't accept that only 69 weeks were fulfilled.
Um, no, that's not how one properly engages in hermeneutics. Rather, each passage must be considered in its own context first, and "if the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense". Well, as most of the plain sense makes sense, and the rest can make sense in that context, there is no justification to conclude that this passage is about anything other than the coming of Messiah the first time.
So let's try again.
Daniel 9:24-27 is Gabriel's prophetic explanation of Daniel's vision. Specific, then-future events are identified such as the command going out to rebuild Jerusalem, the wall being rebuilt during troublous times, and the coming of Messiah. A plain reading of the whole passage strongly implies that all the events of verse 24 would be fulfilled within that 70-week period, rather than at some later time. And no, I don't accept that only 69 weeks were fulfilled.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
No it did not. Your whole post is totally erroneous.
1. In 30 AD Christ prophesied that the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet would stand in the Holy Place. He said this after prophesying the destruction of the second temple (which happened in 70 AD). But the Abomination of Desolation has never been set up after Christ, since there is no second temple. But there will be a third temple which will be hijacked by the Antichrist and in which the Abomination of Desolation will be stand.
2. Then Paul wrote that the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition would sit in the temple of God claiming that he is God. This has never happened since there is no third temple as yet. And no man has ever sat in the second temple claiming that he is God.
3. Then John was told in Revelation 11 to measure the temple in a vision. But John was writing in 96 AD, when the second temple had already been destroyed. So he was talking about the third temple (which must be shortly built to fulfil these prophecies).
4. Then John wrote in Revelation 13 about the FUTURE 3 1/2 year reign of the Antichrist. And this "Beast" is mentioned in Daniel in connection with the Abomination of Desolation. And this is where the 70th week of Daniel fits. And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:31)
When will the daily sacrifice be taken away? This is where Daniel 9:27 comes in: And he [the Antichrist] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [a heptad or period of seven years]: and in the midst of the week [after 3 1/2 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
What are these "desolations"? They are in fact the judgements of the Great Tribulation, and Christ connected the setting up of the Abomination with the Great Tribulation: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand... For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Mt 24:15,21)
1. In 30 AD Christ prophesied that the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet would stand in the Holy Place. He said this after prophesying the destruction of the second temple (which happened in 70 AD). But the Abomination of Desolation has never been set up after Christ, since there is no second temple. But there will be a third temple which will be hijacked by the Antichrist and in which the Abomination of Desolation will be stand.
2. Then Paul wrote that the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition would sit in the temple of God claiming that he is God. This has never happened since there is no third temple as yet. And no man has ever sat in the second temple claiming that he is God.
3. Then John was told in Revelation 11 to measure the temple in a vision. But John was writing in 96 AD, when the second temple had already been destroyed. So he was talking about the third temple (which must be shortly built to fulfil these prophecies).
4. Then John wrote in Revelation 13 about the FUTURE 3 1/2 year reign of the Antichrist. And this "Beast" is mentioned in Daniel in connection with the Abomination of Desolation. And this is where the 70th week of Daniel fits. And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:31)
When will the daily sacrifice be taken away? This is where Daniel 9:27 comes in: And he [the Antichrist] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [a heptad or period of seven years]: and in the midst of the week [after 3 1/2 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
What are these "desolations"? They are in fact the judgements of the Great Tribulation, and Christ connected the setting up of the Abomination with the Great Tribulation: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand... For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Mt 24:15,21)
Sorry but - no, brother - you did not.
Have you ever taken the time to read this web page?
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html
Have you ever taken the time to read this web page?
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html
-
1
- Show all
Yes - it means exactly that. And, yes - it means exactly that. However, in neither case does it mean what you are thinking it means.
Please read:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html
Please read:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html
-
2
- Show all
Nope - an erroneous interpretation.
(This would take more time to address than I have right now to spend on it.)
There is no third temple (as a physical structure built by man) in scripture.
I am quite sure that John wrote Revelation before 70 A.D.
The actual events described in Daniel 11:31 occurred in 167 B.C.
Nope - an erroneous interpretation.
Nope - an erroneous interpretation.
(This would take more time to address than I have right now to spend on it.)
There is no third temple (as a physical structure built by man) in scripture.
I am quite sure that John wrote Revelation before 70 A.D.
The actual events described in Daniel 11:31 occurred in 167 B.C.
Nope - an erroneous interpretation.
Nope - an erroneous interpretation.