Has anyone found secret messages in the bible?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
41
28
Someone wrote, "Numbers in the Bible are primarily there to show us that the Bible is divine in origin. " There is a major problem with this statement. Muslims use the same type Bible Code thing to prove the Koran is of G_d.
LDS use them to prove the book of mormon https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/a-study-in-seven-hebrew-numerology-in-the-book-of-mormon/
The Hidden Codes of Herman Melville’s Moby Dick
https://www.morethancake.org/archives/9656
In the post-apostolic age, some of the “Church Fathers” were mesmerized by the mystical use of numbers. Others, however, opposed such speculations as a fanatical misappropriation of the sacred text (see Irenaeus – c. A.D. 130-200, Against Heresies, II.XXIV). https://christiancourier.com/articles/those-bogus-bible-codes
You obviously haven't even watched the video. The first link you posted just lists some events that anyone can claim happened with no proof, while the video I posted shows astronomically impossible odds of certain words occurring a certain number of times, while combined with other statistically impossible occurrences that only God could have created. The other 2 links just talk about random letter code sequencing, which also, has NOTHING to do with anything being discussed in this video.
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
41
28
The Demise of Drosnin
A shocking discovery has been made deep within the text of Moby Dick.

The great codes researcher Michael Drosnin, who pioneered the art of predicting assassinations using Equidistant Letter Sequences, is himself encoded in a famous book. And directly across his name appears the text "Him to have been killed"!

Yes, folks, using the method that Drosnin himself uses, and the text that he himself chose as a challenge to his critics, we find that Drosnin himself will be murdered in a grotesque manner.

Not only that, but many of the details are revealed as well.


The method by which the dreadful deed will be done
Mr Drosnin will be killed by driving a nail into his heart, which slices out a considerable hole.
The place of the murder
Mr Drosnin will be killed either in Cairo or Athens. Probably both places will play a part, but our skills in reading the secret codes are not yet advanced enough to say more.
The time of the murder
We don't know. The only clue in the codes is the expression "the first day". We think it means he will be killed on the first day of his visit to one of the cities mentioned.
The motive for the murder
http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/drosnin.html
Absolutely NOTHING to do with what we are talking about here. You, like many people on here just blindly hate and spam replies without even watching the video posted. Equidistant letter sequences have been DEBUNKED a long time ago and they have nothing to do with what we are talking about.
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,042
334
83
You are free to believe whatever you like, but that isn’t what Psalm 12:6-7 says.

“The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭12‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those three little words completely undermine your belief.
I don’t see how that changes anything. It is merely saying that from that generation to eternity.

Besides, God’s Word says His words will be preserved forever in Psalms 12:6-7 is also expressed in Isaiah 40:8, (1 Peter 1:23-25. Also compare John 17:17 with Psalms 100:5 and Psalms 117:2. In fact, scrolls of Scripture were written on either vellum (flesh/animal skins) or papyri (i.e., grass). The scribes knew they had to keep making copies to preserve God’s words because the scrolls of the Scriptures would get old and decay and perish. So the flesh of the animal skins and the grass used to write Scripture would eventually pass away. Peter says, “For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever…” (1 Peter 1:24-25). So even though old copies would die out, new ones would replace them, preserving the words of the Lord forever. In fact, Jesus says, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matthew 24:35).

While it is true that God’s Word is forever settled in Heaven, the Modern Textual Critic erroneously believes God’s Word is only perfect in Heaven.

But Deuteronomy 30:11-14 says, “For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.”

See, the problem with Modern Textual Criticism is that the individual reader or the scholar has the power and the authority in certain places in the Bible. The Word of God is taken out of men’s hands without firing a shot, and the devil wins.

Remember, it is the devil who seeks to corrupt, destroy and doubt God’s Word.
If one simply believes Psalms 12:6-7, it will change them just like is the case with other verses one accepts or believes at face value.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,369
13,730
113
I don’t see how that changes anything. It is merely saying that from that generation to eternity.
Wrong.

You believe the word “to” is written between “generation” and “forever”. It isn’t.

It means your interpretation of the passage is not valid, and everything depending on your interpretation is baseless.
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,042
334
83
Wrong.

You believe the word “to” is written between “generation” and “forever”. It isn’t.

It means your interpretation of the passage is not valid, and everything depending on your interpretation is baseless.
Your not getting it, my friend. The word “for” is the preposition (like the word “to”). The word “ever” is saying “eternity.”
It’s why it says it as “for ever” in Psalms 12:7.
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
41
28
Your not getting it, my friend. The word “for” is the preposition (like the word “to”). The word “ever” is saying “eternity.”
It’s why it says it as “for ever” in Psalms 12:7.
I think what he's talking about (if he bothered to clarify) is "generation" of people mentioned in verse 5. God will protect his people, not his word. I haven't found any evidence that God would protect the Bible from corruption (other than the video at the start of this topic). God's word remains safe in heaven, while mistakes, lies, and corruptions are filling the earth. Deuteronomy 30:11-14 is when God's word was given to the people by God himself, but that was long ago and those manuscripts have been copied and corrupted countless times.
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,042
334
83
Wrong.

You believe the word “to” is written between “generation” and “forever”. It isn’t.

It means your interpretation of the passage is not valid, and everything depending on your interpretation is baseless.
Modern Textual Critics like James White try to explain away Psalms 12:6-7 by pointing to their corrupt so called earlier manuscripts that alters verse 7 in that it refers exclusively to the people being preserved for eternity and not the Lord’s pure words. While the context of this chapter is saying that God’s people will be preserved forever, the immediate context is verse 6 in regards to the Lord’s pure words. So God’s pure words and the people will be preserved for all eternity. God’s people can only be preserved if they have God’s words. If there are no words of God, they cannot have faith in God. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). But it is highly suspicious that the recent Modern Translation Movement is favoring minority texts which adhere to an interpretation that undermines the established Bible for hundreds of years. In addition, other verses are changed in regards to uplifting God’s Word, as well. Psalms 138:2 says in the KJV “I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.” This truth is changed in Modern Translations. The Word is not magnified above His name in Modern Bibles. This again is highly suspicious that their disregard for the Word can be seen in the very manuscripts they favor. Here is another one that is altered. 2 Corinthians 2:17 says, “For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.” But in Modern bibles it hides the fact that God’s words were being corrupted during even Paul’s time. It says “peddle” instead of corrupt. There are more like this. This is a pattern we see. It makes sense because the text type of the so-called better manuscripts favored by Modern Textual Criticism is Alexandrian. Meaning, the manuscripts (Vaticanus and Sinaiticus for the NT Greek) they favor originate from Alexandria, Egypt.

Dark Origins of the Alexandria, Egypt manuscripts (for the NT Critical Text or the OT LXX):
  • The concluding statement of the Creed of the Alexandrian Cult is that: THERE IS NO FINAL, ABSOLUTE, WRITTEN AUTHORITY OF GOD ANYWHERE ON THIS EARTH.
  • The removal of 1 John 5:7 and the birthplace of Arianism (Anti-Trinitarianism). The three appearances of “Godhead” (which means Trinity) is changed to say something else. So direct references of the Trinity are attacked and removed.
  • Egypt is predominantly mentioned as being negative in the Bible.

It’s odd that the Modern bibles are based upon the Alexandrian manuscripts, and yet those very scholars who created them also sing the same song (so to speak) as the Alexandrian cult does in the fact that they say the same thing in that there is no final, absolute, written authority of God.
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,042
334
83
I think what he's talking about (if he bothered to clarify) is "generation" of people mentioned in verse 5. God will protect his people, not his word. I haven't found any evidence that God would protect the Bible from corruption (other than the video at the start of this topic). God's word remains safe in heaven, while mistakes, lies, and corruptions are filling the earth. Deuteronomy 30:11-14 is when God's word was given to the people by God himself, but that was long ago and those manuscripts have been copied and corrupted countless times.
The immediate context of verse 7 is God’s words, which is verse 6. Modern bibles alter verse 7 to refer to the people, and not “them” as a reference back to verse 6 (God’s pure words). See my post #1148.
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,042
334
83
Wrong.

You believe the word “to” is written between “generation” and “forever”. It isn’t.

It means your interpretation of the passage is not valid, and everything depending on your interpretation is baseless.
Also, the Modern Translation rendering on Psalms 12:7 does not make any sense by referring exclusively to the people alone and not also God’s words. Modern Bibles are making verse 6 like some kind of mysterious floater verse that does not connect in with the rest of the chapter. What do the pure words of the Lord have to do with the rest of chapter.? Only if the proper KJV rendering of Psalms 12:7 on how God’s words being preserved can the people also be preserved for eternity (or for ever), too. The KJV rendering is superior.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,369
13,730
113
I'm looking for answers and truth, which church is true church and which Bible version is the truest. So far, of the proof I provided for Catholicism, very little has been refuted.
In the 50+ pages you may have shared something valid, but what I have seen isn't. The Catholic organization (I don't call it a 'church') is theologically corrupt and is so far from what the New Testament teaches that any claim to being the true Christian church is simply laughable.
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
41
28
In the 50+ pages you may have shared something valid, but what I have seen isn't. The Catholic organization (I don't call it a 'church') is theologically corrupt and is so far from what the New Testament teaches that any claim to being the true Christian church is simply laughable.
That is irrelevant. Pharisees were just as corrupt if not worse, and yet in Mathew 23:3 Jesus told everyone to be subjects under them.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,369
13,730
113
Actually, I believe Psalms 12:6-7. God preserved His Word perfectly. Before the King James Bible, I believe the Scriptures were perfectly preserved with the Waldenses who date back to the early church.

While, looking outwardly without the working of the Spirit preserving God’s words, one could wrongfully confuse the KJV translators employing Textual Criticism with today’s corrupt Modern Textual Criticism.

Yes, there were marginal readings in the original KJB. It even had the Apocrypha (which was later removed by the decision of the Church of England in 1885). But what was meant to be in the text was an act of God keeping His Word. These marginal notes did not remain in later KJV editions when the printing process was perfected and when the standardization of spelling came to fruition.

Modern textual criticism is the heretical theory behind the modern Bible versions. It assumes that God has not precisely preserved the Scripture, but that it had to be recovered in modern times by textual critics. It produces uncertainty concerning the details of Scripture. A confident “thus saith the Lord” is replaced with “this reading has more support than that reading.” The congregation’s one Bible standard is replaced with a multiplicity of conflicting Bibles. When one is faced with a different wording in the Bible, either the reader becomes the real Authority or some Modern scholar they like out of many (whereby they do not all agree).

What you have today is men not actually have any actual Bible that is any authority all can agree upon, but you have men who have phantom bibles that exist only on their own minds. Even then, this can shape shift within a few years and change due to a new exciting translation or new critical text edition based on supposedly better discoveries in a cave somewhere. One does not actually have an actual book called the Bible a person can hold in their hands and say this is the perfect and trust worthy words of the Lord.

Erasmus’s work (which went through several editions) also passed through Stephanus and Beza, and translators of the Bishop’s Bible. The KJV translators consulted the best manuscripts of their time. The fruit definitely shows that this was not some run of the mill translation that would come and go with the passing of time like many others had.
This is classic KJV-only argumentation... and it's completely bogus.

Here's the simple truth: the kind of textual criticism employed by Erasmus and the KJV translators is the same kind of textual criticism employed by the scholars behind the modern critical Greek texts. Calling one legitimate and the other heretical is closed-minded folly.
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
41
28
The immediate context of verse 7 is God’s words, which is verse 6. Modern bibles alter verse 7 to refer to the people, and not “them” as a reference back to verse 6 (God’s pure words). See my post #1148.
I found many videos refuting KJV translation in various ways, one being, not following the Hebrew grammar - the word "them" in Hebrew is masculine, but the word for "words" is feminine, so it cannot be talking about the word God being preserved. I don't know anything about Hebrew, so I can't comment any further.

 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,042
334
83
I think what he's talking about (if he bothered to clarify) is "generation" of people mentioned in verse 5. God will protect his people, not his word. I haven't found any evidence that God would protect the Bible from corruption (other than the video at the start of this topic). God's word remains safe in heaven, while mistakes, lies, and corruptions are filling the earth. Deuteronomy 30:11-14 is when God's word was given to the people by God himself, but that was long ago and those manuscripts have been copied and corrupted countless times.
As for Deuteronomy 30:11-14:

Nowhere is this principle or truth said to be exclusive only to that time period. Meaning, we do not see anywhere God rescinding this truth. Why would He? It wouldn’t make any sense. All over Scripture we can see the promise of God preserving His Words through the centuries. If this was not the case, then people could not trust His words because they were full of errors and or problems.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,369
13,730
113
Besides, God’s Word says His words will be preserved forever in Psalms 12:6-7
No it does not, and you being stubborn about it isn't helping your case.

is also expressed in Isaiah 40:8, (1 Peter 1:23-25. Also compare John 17:17 with Psalms 100:5 and Psalms 117:2. In fact, scrolls of Scripture were written on either vellum (flesh/animal skins) or papyri (i.e., grass). The scribes knew they had to keep making copies to preserve God’s words because the scrolls of the Scriptures would get old and decay and perish. So the flesh of the animal skins and the grass used to write Scripture would eventually pass away. Peter says, “For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever…” (1 Peter 1:24-25). So even though old copies would die out, new ones would replace them, preserving the words of the Lord forever. In fact, Jesus says, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matthew 24:35).
All irrelevant to your misinterpretation of Psalm 12.

While it is true that God’s Word is forever settled in Heaven, the Modern Textual Critic erroneously believes God’s Word is only perfect in Heaven.
Quote any modern textual critic who has said or written that.

See, the problem with Modern Textual Criticism is that the individual reader or the scholar has the power and the authority in certain places in the Bible. The Word of God is taken out of men’s hands without firing a shot, and the devil wins.
Silly hypocrisy. You think that the KJV translators were doing something fundamentally different than what modern scholars do... with no evidence to support your bias.

If one simply believes Psalms 12:6-7, it will change them just like is the case with other verses one accepts or believes at face value.
Only if they stubbornly refuse to read and believe those three critical words: "from this generation".
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,042
334
83
I found many videos refuting KJV translation in various ways, one being, not following the Hebrew grammar - the word "them" in Hebrew is masculine, but the word for "words" is feminine, so it cannot be talking about the word God being preserved. I don't know anything about Hebrew, so I can't comment any further.

Lets understand something here. First, the translators of the KJV knew the original languages far better than the average person today. Many of the translators could speak, write, and read Hebrew and Greek fluently. 47 of the top scholars worked on the KJV and they had the best manuscripts.

Second, this person in this video most likely does not even speak, read, and write Hebrew fluently as their native tongue. Even if they did, the Hebrew language died out for a while and came back. So folks would only be guessing as to what Hebrew is saying. The only thing to have is trusting in God’s Word in the language God chose for today, which I believe is English (The world language). To put it to you another way, I do not entertain original language interpretations because they really do not know these languages. They may have went to some college but if they cannot live in that culture and speak to the locals and write a book that they would be impressed with, they are simply not qualified and they are merely toying with a dead language.

Three, when a person explains away the English meaning in the Bible, what they are really saying is that the translators of the KJV were wrong or stupid and they know better. But I don’t imagine they even bothered to check their credentials. Compared to their own credentials it is a joke for sure. They are one person who is toying with a language and trying to be on the same level of the top scholars who actually knew the languages very well.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,369
13,730
113
Your not getting it, my friend. The word “for” is the preposition (like the word “to”). The word “ever” is saying “eternity.”
It’s why it says it as “for ever” in Psalms 12:7.
The word is "You're", so I'm not inclined to take grammar lessons from you.
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
41
28
As for Deuteronomy 30:11-14:

Nowhere is this principle or truth said to be exclusive only to that time period. Meaning, we do not see anywhere God rescinding this truth. Why would He? It wouldn’t make any sense. All over Scripture we can see the promise of God preserving His Words through the centuries. If this was not the case, then people could not trust His words because they were full of errors and or problems.
Deuteronomy 30:11-14 is talking about present moment in the past, when people had just received God's word. It says the people now have the God given law and must now follow it. Nowhere did the Bible say that God's word would be perfectly preserved on earth as it is in heaven until, that is off coarse, God's will is done on earth as it is in heaven.