Has anyone found secret messages in the bible?

[Bible_Highlighter]

That's a common but less than adequate interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 5:22.

It doesn't use the word "appearance" in the sense "to look like a thing even though it may not be the thing."
That is not the sense of the passage... and other translations translate it differently.
Even if we stick to the KJV, and translate the Greek word as "appearance", we are still left with two possible understandings of the word "appearance"... a choice of two completely different semantic definitions, right in the English.
So even in the KJV, there are interpretative choices that need to be analyzed.

We cannot possibly use this subjective and relativistic definition of the word "appearance", because the preceding adjective "all" would magnify it to the level of absurdity, and to logical impossibility.

(I won't go into more detail on the semantics unless someone wants to talk about it more. It's all kind of boring.)


CONCLUSION:
To simplify things: it's fine to dislike something Dino says - but we can't use that particular verse to discredit him, because that isn't what the verse means.


(In all fairness, I used to interpret this verse in the same way, and I don't think this semantic misunderstanding makes anyone a bad person, or open to ridicule. There is just a more precise and logical way to interpret the verse, which fits better in the context and within Biblical principles.)

.

In regards to 1 Thessalonians 5:22 in the KJV: Well, you are not really giving me the real definition and how that makes more sense. There are also many statements in the Bible where the word “all” is used and does not mean “all.” But I do not see “all” as being a problem here if taken literally.

In the previous chapter:

1 Thessalonians 4:12 KJV says, “That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.”

This is saying a similar thing as 1 Thessalonians 5:22. It is saying that we are to walk honestly or properly towards those on the outside (unbelievers). This is a public thing. To act properly outwardly plays hand in hand with avoiding in having any appearance of evil.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

That's a common but less than adequate interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 5:22.

It doesn't use the word "appearance" in the sense "to look like a thing even though it may not be the thing."
That is not the sense of the passage... and other translations translate it differently.
Even if we stick to the KJV, and translate the Greek word as "appearance", we are still left with two possible understandings of the word "appearance"... a choice of two completely different semantic definitions, right in the English.
So even in the KJV, there are interpretative choices that need to be analyzed.

We cannot possibly use this subjective and relativistic definition of the word "appearance", because the preceding adjective "all" would magnify it to the level of absurdity, and to logical impossibility.

(I won't go into more detail on the semantics unless someone wants to talk about it more. It's all kind of boring.)


CONCLUSION:
To simplify things: it's fine to dislike something Dino says - but we can't use that particular verse to discredit him, because that isn't what the verse means.


(In all fairness, I used to interpret this verse in the same way, and I don't think this semantic misunderstanding makes anyone a bad person, or open to ridicule. There is just a more precise and logical way to interpret the verse, which fits better in the context and within Biblical principles.)

.

In an additional note on abstaining from all appearance of evil according to 1 Thessalonians 5:22:
Well, as believers, we are to conform to the image of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:29 KJV
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

2 Corinthians 3:18 KJV
“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

Jesus knew no sin. So if we are to conform to Jesus Christ who knew no sin, then our outward appearance and or outward dealings will not mislead others to think we are doing evil or wrong because Jesus did not lead others to sin (even in an outward appearance).

Hebrews 7:26 says,
"For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;“

We are to put on the new man.

Ephesians 4:24 KJV
“And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

We are to put on Jesus Christ like outward clothing or a cloak.

Romans 13:14
”But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”

Our lives are to be like holy epistles (in conduct) that can be read by all men (Seeing outward conduct).

2 Corinthians 3:2 KJV - “Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:”

What would one of the reasons why? Because of this….

“Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:” (2 Corinthians 6:3).

 

[Niki7]

Papal succession is a thing. Also, Peter was given the keys to heaven by Jesus, which was a type of king who gave the keys to his stewart in Isiah 22. The keys are to be passed down to his successors.

it sure is a thing

Peter does not have the keys to his own house, let alone heaven

this is total nonsense and it not found in the Bible....only in the gigantic edifice found in Italy

 

[Niki7]

I never claimed Peter (or the current Pope) is infallible. As a matter of fact I claimed that the Catholic church is full of corruption and lies, but that doesn't mean they don't have authority according to the Bible. You are using the same faulty logic to try and discredit their authority, but goodness or evil have no bearing on how legitimate the authority is. Obviously Peter was a lot more humble than his corrupt successors, but that doesn't change the fact they are his lawful successors.

right. that is what we all need. a corrupt, lying bunch of people with authority

sounds like most governments these days

 

[NTNT58]

it sure is a thing

Peter does not have the keys to his own house, let alone heaven

this is total nonsense and it not found in the Bible....only in the gigantic edifice found in Italy

Then how do you explain Mathew 16:19, and it's meaning in light of Isiah 22?

 

[NTNT58]

right. that is what we all need. a corrupt, lying bunch of people with authority

sounds like most governments these days

And yet Romans 13:1 tells us to obey government authority because all authority is sanctioned by God. Do you follow the law? If not, then you are rebelling against God.

 

[Dino246]

Anyone who truly belives in God will have works correlating with their belief and they will be saved. Those who justify sin do not truly believe.

There is far more division among the hundreds it not thousands of protestant denominations than there are among the Catholic church. I'm seeking to unite Christians under one church, while you are seeking to divide and abandon the one universal church that was originally started by Jesus.

Please clarify: Are you here primarily to convert protestant Christians to Catholicism?

 

[Dino246]

Cut the chase, my friend. Do you believe in Textual Criticism or not?

You hold to the KJV, which is the direct product of textual criticism... primarily by Erasmus and secondarily by the KJV translators.

 

[NTNT58]

Please clarify: Are you here primarily to convert protestant Christians to Catholicism?

I'm looking for answers and truth, which church is true church and which Bible version is the truest. So far, of the proof I provided for Catholicism, very little has been refuted.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

You hold to the KJV, which is the direct product of textual criticism...

Actually, I believe Psalms 12:6-7. God preserved His Word perfectly. Before the King James Bible, I believe the Scriptures were perfectly preserved with the Waldenses who date back to the early church.

While, looking outwardly without the working of the Spirit preserving God’s words, one could wrongfully confuse the KJV translators employing Textual Criticism with today’s corrupt Modern Textual Criticism.

Yes, there were marginal readings in the original KJB. It even had the Apocrypha (which was later removed by the decision of the Church of England in 1885). But what was meant to be in the text was an act of God keeping His Word. These marginal notes did not remain in later KJV editions when the printing process was perfected and when the standardization of spelling came to fruition.

Modern textual criticism is the heretical theory behind the modern Bible versions. It assumes that God has not precisely preserved the Scripture, but that it had to be recovered in modern times by textual critics. It produces uncertainty concerning the details of Scripture. A confident “thus saith the Lord” is replaced with “this reading has more support than that reading.” The congregation’s one Bible standard is replaced with a multiplicity of conflicting Bibles. When one is faced with a different wording in the Bible, either the reader becomes the real Authority or some Modern scholar they like out of many (whereby they do not all agree).

What you have today is men not actually have any actual Bible that is any authority all can agree upon, but you have men who have phantom bibles that exist only on their own minds. Even then, this can shape shift within a few years and change due to a new exciting translation or new critical text edition based on supposedly better discoveries in a cave somewhere. One does not actually have an actual book called the Bible a person can hold in their hands and say this is the perfect and trust worthy words of the Lord.

primarily by Erasmus and secondarily by the KJV translators.

Erasmus’s work (which went through several editions) also passed through Stephanus and Beza, and translators of the Bishop’s Bible. The KJV translators consulted the best manuscripts of their time. The fruit definitely shows that this was not some run of the mill translation that would come and go with the passing of time like many others had.

Source used for one paragraph in this post:
https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/a_testimony_against_modern_textual_criticism.php

 

[Dino246]

Actually, I believe Psalms 12:6-7. God preserved His Word perfectly.

You are free to believe whatever you like, but that isn’t what Psalm 12:6-7 says.

“The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭12‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those three little words completely undermine your belief.

 

[TheLearner]

KJV says practice and observe EVERYTHING they tell you, not just things relating to scripture. Romans 13:1 tells everyone to obey ALL authority, including corrupt and evil governments (as long as their commands don't contradict God's word). So we must obey ALL authority at ALL times, not just when they tell us to follow scripture.



Peter was listed first among disciples (Matt. 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13).
Peter was the one who generally spoke for the apostles (Matt. 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 12:41, John 6:68-69), and he figured in many of the most dramatic scenes (Matt. 14:28-32, 17:24-27; Mark 10:23-28).
On Pentecost it was Peter who first preached to the crowds (Acts 2:14-40), and he worked the first healing in the Church age (Acts 3:6-7).
It is Peter’s faith that will strengthen his brethren (Luke 22:32) and Peter is given Christ’s flock to shepherd (John 21:17).
An angel was sent to announce the resurrection to Peter (Mark 16:7), and the risen Christ appeared first to Peter (Luke 24:34).
He headed the meeting that elected Matthias to replace Judas (Acts 1:13-26), and he received the first converts (Acts 2:41).
He inflicted the first punishment (Acts 5:1-11) and excommunicated the first heretic (Acts 8:18-23).
He led the first council in Jerusalem (Acts 15) and announced the first dogmatic decision (Acts 15:7-11).
It was to Peter that the revelation came that Gentiles were to be baptized and accepted as Christians (Acts 10:46-48).
Jesus gave Peter the keys to heaven in Mathew 16:19 because he was the first one to acknowledge him as the Messiah.
After the Resurrection, Jesus appeared to his disciples and asked Peter three times, “Do you love me?” (John 21:15-17). In repentance for his threefold denial, Peter gave a threefold affirmation of love. Then Christ, the Good Shepherd (John 10:11, 14), gave Peter the authority he earlier had promised: “Feed my sheep” (John 21:17). This specifically included the other apostles, since Jesus asked Peter, “Do you love me more than these?” (John 21:15), the word “these” referring to the other apostles who were present (John 21:2).

It doesn't matter if they are apostate, just like it doesn't matter if the government is corrupt, Romans 13:1 tells us to obey ALL authority, and there is plenty of evidence of the authority held by the Catholic church.



Interesting how you mention Revelation 17-18 which talks about Babylon, while in Jeremaya 27:17 God tells his people through prophet Jeremaya to serve the king of Babylon. This further aligns with Romans 13:1 telling us to obey ALL authority because all authority is ultimately from God and rebelling against it is rebelling against God. Nowhere does it say obey ALL authority "as long as it's not apostate" or "as long as it's not pagan", the Bible clearly says ALL authority is from God. It doesn't matter how much you or I hate a particular government or the Catholic church, the only reason they are in power is because God decided so. And the only reason any evil is in power is because God is using it to chastise his people. Rebelling against God's chastisement will only bring more chastisement upon you and others.

book of Jeremaya ???

 

[TheLearner]

Where did I say that gematria value of Jesus is 888? I don't recall ever saying anything like that.

As soon as I started seeing curse word after curse word I closed the video. Nothing Godly comes from unchristian behavior.

One of the souces I looked up teaching the Bible Code. Problem is, If one pulls all the books adivacting this stuff, they will not agree on values assigned to names. Whorse, they can not justifly why they do math other than assigned numbers to letters and even that does not agree.

 

[TheLearner]

I don't recall the video I posted even having gematria. If it did it's a very tiny part, something like 0.1% of the numbers mentioned. Gematria is NOT counting the number of word occurrences, which is what the video is about.

gematria is the orginal source for all this numbers stuff.

 

[TheLearner]

Not going to keep up.

 

[TheLearner]

Someone wrote, "Numbers in the Bible are primarily there to show us that the Bible is divine in origin. " There is a major problem with this statement. Muslims use the same type Bible Code thing to prove the Koran is of G_d.
LDS use them to prove the book of mormon https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/a-study-in-seven-hebrew-numerology-in-the-book-of-mormon/
The Hidden Codes of Herman Melville’s Moby Dick
https://www.morethancake.org/archives/9656
In the post-apostolic age, some of the “Church Fathers” were mesmerized by the mystical use of numbers. Others, however, opposed such speculations as a fanatical misappropriation of the sacred text (see Irenaeus – c. A.D. 130-200, Against Heresies, II.XXIV). https://christiancourier.com/articles/those-bogus-bible-codes

 

[TheLearner]

The Demise of Drosnin
A shocking discovery has been made deep within the text of Moby Dick.

The great codes researcher Michael Drosnin, who pioneered the art of predicting assassinations using Equidistant Letter Sequences, is himself encoded in a famous book. And directly across his name appears the text "Him to have been killed"!

Yes, folks, using the method that Drosnin himself uses, and the text that he himself chose as a challenge to his critics, we find that Drosnin himself will be murdered in a grotesque manner.

Not only that, but many of the details are revealed as well.


The method by which the dreadful deed will be done
Mr Drosnin will be killed by driving a nail into his heart, which slices out a considerable hole.
The place of the murder
Mr Drosnin will be killed either in Cairo or Athens. Probably both places will play a part, but our skills in reading the secret codes are not yet advanced enough to say more.
The time of the murder
We don't know. The only clue in the codes is the expression "the first day". We think it means he will be killed on the first day of his visit to one of the cities mentioned.
The motive for the murder
http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/drosnin.html

 

[TheLearner]

Against Heresies, 5.30.3

3. It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfilment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved. For if there are many names found possessing this number, it will be asked which among them shall the coming man bear. It is not through a want of names containing the number of that name that I say this, but on account of the fear of God, and zeal for the truth: for the name Evanthas (ΕΥΑΝΘΑΣ) contains the required number, but I make no allegation regarding it. Then also Lateinos (ΛΑΤΕΙΝΟΣ) has the number six hundred and sixty-six; and it is a very probable [solution], this being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For the Latins are they who at present bear rule: I will not, however, make any boast over this [coincidence]. Teitan too, (ΤΕΙΤΑΝ, the first syllable being written with the two Greek vowels ε and ι, among all the names which are found among us, is rather worthy of credit. For it has in itself the predicted number, and is composed of six letters, each syllable containing three letters; and [the word itself] is ancient, and removed from ordinary use; for among our kings we find none bearing this name Titan, nor have any of the idols which are worshipped in public among the Greeks and barbarians this appellation. Among many persons, too, this name is accounted divine, so that even the sun is termed Titan by those who do now possess [the rule]. This word, too, contains a certain outward appearance of vengeance, and of one inflicting merited punishment because he (Antichrist) pretends that he vindicates the oppressed. And besides this, it is an ancient name, one worthy of credit, of royal dignity, and still further, a name belonging to a tyrant. Inasmuch, then, as this name Titan has so much to recommend it, there is a strong degree of probability, that from among the many [names suggested], we infer, that perchance he who is to come shall be called Titan. We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103530.htm

 

[NTNT58]

book of Jeremaya ???

What are you asking me? Do you have specific verses in the book of Jeremaya that prove your case?

 

[NTNT58]

One of the souces I looked up teaching the Bible Code. Problem is, If one pulls all the books adivacting this stuff, they will not agree on values assigned to names. Whorse, they can not justifly why they do math other than assigned numbers to letters and even that does not agree.

"Gematria" has NOTHING to do with "this stuff"

gematria is the orginal source for all this numbers stuff.

No, it's not. Gematria is assigning value to letters, this stuff is counting words.