The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security

Ist
Man was created in the image of God but you may have read that he rebelled and fell from his first estate.

Paul says mankind were plunged into slavery to sin. ... slavery does not spell freewill.
2nd
There is nothing humble about telling God, after He has set us free from our bondage that we could have decided to be righteous any time we wanted, all we needed to do was "make a decision"

You do realise that if it were true that you had freewill you could choose any time you liked to be saved, to become righteous, to be born again. This makes our Lord's death on the cross quite unnecessary.

"for by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves lest JimmyTheLock should boast"

Yes he did. God gave Adam and Eve a choice, and they made it.

Freedom has been made available to all of us though Jesus' Atonement. The Atonement makes choosing possible. Moreover, it is a requirement.

It is God who has told us that "all we need do is make a decision."

Yes, this is what our Lord's death on the Cross has made possible.

???????

Our Lord's death on the cross is precisely what makes choosing salvation possible! How is it that you have been so long with us and so completely missed this elementary principle of the Gospel???

Yes! "YE ARE SAVED THROUGH FAITH! Methinks Elmo has finally got it!

Point by point

1.Adam and Eve were free the choice they had was to live or die. YOU did not have that choice you had to die, all the "freewill" in the world cannot prevent it. 2 things bind the human will, we are bound to sin, we are therefore bound to die. In fact we are dead even while we live. Our whole life is consumed ...

... consumed with delaying the inevitable

2. moreover it is a requirement, you said that ... therefore it is not a freewill choice is it. IF you had freewill you would choose to live and carry on in sin but that choice was not given to you.

... don't you believe that in yourself you are wicked?

3. where does God say "all you need to do is make a decision?" What the bible actually says is "God has COMMANDED all men to repent" it is a command. When Jesus says "have faith" it is fiat the word that creates the faith whereby be believe. Just like He said "let there be light" and there was light.

4.Choice is not freewill it is a grace, a gift. If God does not give you the choice then you will have no choice. Israel did not have a choice because God hid the truth from them [at that time] they were predestined [you do not like that bible word do you] to reject Christ. Jesus was given over to the Gentiles by the predeterminate will of God.

5. ?????? yes it is simple, if you could choose of your own freewill to be righteous then there is no need for Jesus to die . He died to set you FREE, but you say you were free all along.

6. You were saved by GRACE through faith and ...

... and that not of yourself lest Oyster should boast. By grace through faith and that [faith] was not of yourself but was a gift. Stop BOASTING Oy. Stop thumping your chest and saying "I chose ... I have been saved by my own freewill" .... just stop it

You see your neighbour may have heard exactly the same gospel message but he didn't get saved. That makes you better than him, more prudent, more wise, more righteous. That is if you believe your doctrine. Man you deserve a little glory don't you?

I say it was ALL of God from start to finish, from top to bottom. All glory and praise to Him alone.

Amen \0/

When it comes to Adam and Eve this is not true. They were created perfect. They would not get sick, they did not age, And they would not die. Those were the results of the one choice they chose to make. God put two trees in the garden, the tree of life. And the tree of Good and evil. Amazingly. They chose the tree which killed them, and not the tree of life. In fact God kicked them out of the Garden and removed the tree of life less they chose to eat of it and not die.. ( a picture of our amazing salvation as Jesus on the cross, our tree of life, which jesus said in John 6 we can eat of it and not die.

As for us, yes, I agree, mankind is always looking for that tree of life, we are consumed by it

Again, I disagree. God calls. He brings us to our knees. He exposes our sin, and our death, nd he calls us to make a choice. look to the cross. Or hide from it..

Oh Yes I do. But that does not meanI can not make choices. i make choices every day.
do “All Men” Repent?
Actually this is what God said.

Mat 23: 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under herwings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate

They chose, He did not force them to not believe, It was his will they did believe,

Well this I am nt even sure what your mean. We are already guilty. So we can’t be righteous.. We walked away and rebelled against God. So we have to fill that Hole that was left.. it’s a lifetime struggle. Unless we come to God. And even then, it takes great fath to walk in all ways righteous.. Even we can not do that then

but like Paul said, its not because we do not wish to. its becaus of sin which is in us
Again this is not true. I am not sure where this thinking comes from

If me and my neighbor heard the same word, and I got saved, and he did not, it is because i considered myself worse than him. I considered myself poor in spirit (bankrupt) and got on my knees,

while my neighbor considered himself better than me, and did not think he needed saved.. because he refused to repent.

if anything fatalism has the one saved as being better. Under fatalism, God chose me and did not chose my neighbor. So by proxy, God Considered me better than him and gave me the gift. While refusing to give him the gift.

Oh I do to. No one would chose to have faith Unless God broke them. But God breaks many a person and they refuse till the end and go to eternity screaming.. Suicide is so high in a godless society. Because God is tryign to bring them to faith, and they refuse.[/quote]

[/QUOTE]
Let's see now
They chose ... choice is not free will, you can only choose between the options given, the One giving the options is the only One who has free sovereign will. Moreover consider this
Adam was created by God's own will, God did not ask him "would you like to be created?" He did not confer "what manner of creation would you like to be created?" God created Eve with ne'er a "please may I?"

Strange that nobuddy gets angry about this I mean how dare we talk about foreknowledge and predestiny? [we'll get slandered as Calvins]

So Adam had life, the life had given him, but this does not meet God's requirement for love. having created us God now seeks our approval of His creation [of ourselves in His beautiful garden of delight] THAT'S why the tree.

Man was FREE to live and enjoy ... but if he chose to die ... dead men have no freewill, so even the choice is a non choice. How COULD Satan tempt Adam? the answer was to trick him, how?

He tricked him into believing he had free will, he tricked him into believing he could do whatever he pleased with no consequence "You'll be like God ... you will not die"

... 'scuse me I just cooked up some delicious pork belly slices which I just gotta eat ... I'll get back to you

Let's see now
They chose ... choice is not free will, you can only choose between the options given, the One giving the options is the only One who has free sovereign will. Moreover consider this
Adam was created by God's own will, God did not ask him "would you like to be created?" He did not confer "what manner of creation would you like to be created?" God created Eve with ne'er a "please may I?"

Strange that nobuddy gets angry about this I mean how dare we talk about foreknowledge and predestiny? [we'll get slandered as Calvins]

So Adam had life, the life had given him, but this does not meet God's requirement for love. having created us God now seeks our approval of His creation [of ourselves in His beautiful garden of delight] THAT'S why the tree.

Man was FREE to live and enjoy ... but if he chose to die ... dead men have no freewill, so even the choice is a non choice. How COULD Satan tempt Adam? the answer was to trick him, how?

He tricked him into believing he had free will, he tricked him into believing he could do whatever he pleased with no consequence "You'll be like God ... you will not die"

... 'scuse me I just cooked up some delicious pork belly slices which I just gotta eat ... I'll get back to you[/QUOTE]

OHO! that's why I LOVE Him, He just does as He pleases, He doesn't consult with anybody or ask their permission, He is sovereign. Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the Life ... " we do not pay enough attention to God's way.

How He created us first time is how He re-creates us, He does the work first, He brings us ALIVE again when we hear the gospel THEN He gets our approval in our repentance our faith [which is a gift] and our receiving Him as Lord.
[/QUOTE]

To answer your 2nd part [which is in every word an admission of your lack of freewill and inability] You admit that God has to break people, that's what I've said all along, God breaks our will, He subjugates our will to His own.

I have never denied that man has a will, I'm saying it isn't free but as Paul teaches is in bondage.

AMEN!

Do you believe in the Gift of Discernment?
if you do, let's say it this way...
what if God Discerned to you, someone, needed to be Saved?

You are Captain Misunderstanding!

I never said anybody could get saved on their own without Jesus' work on the Cross... no, I did not.

I'm speaking of AFTER the Cross... where limited anointment is false doctrine!... meaning, it's the Lord who is drawing people unto Himself providing the strength and the power to come to Him to be born again.

Romans 12:3
God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

It's OUR decision whether to use this faith to come to the Lord and get saved, or to discard this faith and remain an unbeliever! Your tenants of calvinism are in fact, false doctrine.

The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)

God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)

God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)

Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)

In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.

Now... considering ALL of these scriptures.... Jesus said this....

Luke 9:23
And He said to them all, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

WHO is it that needs to deny himself, take up his cross, and follow the Lord????
Yes, that would be man... according to Jesus!

HOW is one going to do this???

Philippians 4:13 tells us "I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me"... thru the Lord, that's how!

You sure are confused... I hope things get better for you, I really do

Is it just on God's behalf to send people to hell for sin He has accepted payment for?.

Do you mean without repentance?

Repentance isn't a consideration for God's justice; only a consideration for mercy.

Universalist much?


Jesus is like Noah's Ark... as long as one is abiding IN the Ark they are saved.

Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.... unless they REPENT, confessing their sin to the Lord and forsaking their sin so they can be cleansed of unrighteousness and once again be back in right standing with the Father (see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9)

Just like the prodigal son who dead while away but alive once again when he returned to the Father. (see Luke 15:24-26)

The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.

Those that follow false doctrines that ignore the teachings of Jesus... well, not much hope for them and when they get where they are going, they will regret their false doctrine for all eternity!

With repentance comes God’s forgiveness.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. - 1 John 1:8-9

Exactly! We cannot continue in sin and be in right standing with the Lord at the same time as the OSAS peoples supposed.

You are uncharacteristically good at not answering the actual question asked. I'll try again, is God just in sending people to hell whose sin He has accepted payment for?

Here... let me re-phrase...

Universalist much?

Jesus is like Noah's Ark... as long as one is abiding IN the Ark they are saved.

Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.... unless they REPENT, confessing their sin to the Lord and forsaking their sin so they can be cleansed of unrighteousness and once again be back in right standing with the Father (see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9)

Just like the prodigal son who dead while away but alive once again when he returned to the Father. (see Luke 15:24-26)

The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.

Those that follow false doctrines that ignore the teachings of Jesus... well, not much hope for them and when they get where they are going, they will regret their false doctrine for all eternity!



Hint... the answer to your question is ion the reply that I have provided for you homie!

It's immaterial to the question I asked. All I want to know is if God is just if He sends people to hell for sin that He has accepted payment for.
If I loan you $100, and the terms are that you pay me back within 2 weeks or I can send you to jail, and in 2 weeks you can't pay but another agrees to pay and does pay and I accept it as your payment, would I be just if I put you in jail anyway?

I just ask for yes or no...all the rest is gobbledygook. Can you answer yes or no?